Do you agree with hinkie's rebuild plan for the sixers?

[CoreyGallagher]

Um, that's what I said? You just changed my statement from "most" to "every". Funny enough, the Sixers are the one team I am unsure about

No, it's not what you said because that change is exactly that, 'most of' 30 NBA teams is ≥16, considerable margins (altho you did just clarify that you actually meant 29 teams), while 'every' is all of 30 and that includes the Sixers.

A "star" in the context of this thread is that foundational star that Hinkie has made his all-out goal to obtain. I don't think Noel is that guy. Unless you think otherwise, then you should accept there is a possibility that Hinkie would sacrifice a very good young player in order to further his chances at hitting the jackpot. I am not saying he will certainly do so, but Hinkie is the only current GM in the league who I think would consider this move. Some would even call it ballsy.

I don't believe that there are currently many better prospects than Noel in the NBA, his offense has already come along considerably in only his rookie season (as cited above) and he's also among the best defenders in the entire league per numerous metrics. I don't believe that Hinkie would trade that away unless it's for an already cemented top draft pick or the odds are overwhelmingly favorable to land such.

EDIT: One more point. If both Okafor and Embiid pan out, then there's no way that the Sixers will keep all 3 bigs. Even keeping 2 of them is a stretch, I believe. All I'm saying is, don't get too attached.

He won't keep all 3 bigs, but of the 3 Noel is proven, has the most positional versatility, and has shown ambition. He seems to be the safest of the 3 to latch onto, especially with the realities of Embiid.

[jason bourne]

I've been a critic of Sam Hinkie's rebuild plan since he traded Michael Carter-Williams and said he would deal anyone else on the Sixers including Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid for future draft picks.

Hinkie has done well in getting draft picks and Noel, but now a new GM needs to come in and build a team. Who would have thought Hinkie's plan was to acquire draft picks and not build a team? He doesn't have a cohesive unit that has played together from year-to-year. What he has are pieces he put together from the D-League, secondary trades and the draft. He didn't have a point guard last season and doesn't look to have one this season. He does not have a regular team and players that fans can get behind.

If you're going to suck and draft and accumulate draft picks, then Danny Ainge and the Boston Celtics have done a better job. They made the playoffs last year, have a cohesive team, have high draft picks to use or trade for players to build a team around. Boston and Philly used to be arch-rivals. What it shows is getting a superstar player in the draft is hard to come by as they do not come around every year.

[BullyKing]

I've been a critic of Sam Hinkie's rebuild plan since he traded Michael Carter-Williams and said he would deal anyone else on the Sixers including Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid for future draft picks.

Hinkie has done well in getting draft picks and Noel, but now a new GM needs to come in and build a team. Who would have thought Hinkie's plan was to acquire draft picks and not build a team? He doesn't have a cohesive unit that has played together from year-to-year. What he has are pieces he put together from the D-League, secondary trades and the draft. He didn't have a point guard last season and doesn't look to have one this season. He does not have a regular team and players that fans can get behind.

If you're going to suck and draft and accumulate draft picks, then Danny Ainge and the Boston Celtics have done a better job. They made the playoffs last year, have a cohesive team, have high draft picks to use or trade for players to build a team around. Boston and Philly used to be arch-rivals. What it shows is getting a superstar player in the draft is hard to come by as they do not come around every year.

This is some incredibly simplistic analysis. While the Celtics might have more future picks coming their way, those picks are not predicted to be as valuable as Philly's. Moreover, any of the valuable picks the Boston has (read: Brooklyn's) came from Ainge trading away valuable veterans, an option Hinkie did not have.

[HartfordWhalers]

I've been a critic of Sam Hinkie's rebuild plan since he traded Michael Carter-Williams and said he would deal anyone else on the Sixers including Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid for future draft picks.

Hinkie has done well in getting draft picks and Noel, but now a new GM needs to come in and build a team. Who would have thought Hinkie's plan was to acquire draft picks and not build a team? He doesn't have a cohesive unit that has played together from year-to-year. What he has are pieces he put together from the D-League, secondary trades and the draft. He didn't have a point guard last season and doesn't look to have one this season. He does not have a regular team and players that fans can get behind.

If you're going to suck and draft and accumulate draft picks, then Danny Ainge and the Boston Celtics have done a better job. They made the playoffs last year, have a cohesive team, have high draft picks to use or trade for players to build a team around. Boston and Philly used to be arch-rivals. What it shows is getting a superstar player in the draft is hard to come by as they do not come around every year.

I heard Hinkie's plan was to win 0 zero games and thus shoot the moon and get a championship. I feel like the team should replace Hinkie, because we all know there is no shooting the moon in basketball. And besides, if the goal is shooting the moon, New York and Minnesota were closer.

[Texas Chuck]

I heard Hinkie's plan was to win 0 zero games and thus shoot the moon and get a championship. I feel like the team should replace Hinkie, because we all know there is no shooting the moon in basketball. And besides, if the goal is shooting the moon, New York and Minnesota were closer.

This is literally why I never win at hearts. If I have the remotest chance at shooting the moon, I shoot like Kobe.

[HartfordWhalers]

I heard Hinkie's plan was to win 0 zero games and thus shoot the moon and get a championship. I feel like the team should replace Hinkie, because we all know there is no shooting the moon in basketball. And besides, if the goal is shooting the moon, New York and Minnesota were closer.

This is literally why I never win at hearts. If I have the remotest chance at shooting the moon, I shoot like Kobe.

Ha! Poor Kobe.

But seriously, how do people think Hinkie's plan is just draft picks ad infinitum?

[jason bourne]

It's not luck at all though. Really the only team you could point as having started their rebuild around the same time as the Sixers and sort of more successful than the Sixers already is the Wolves. And yes, luck was involved in ping pong balls (mostly on the Cleveland pick). But the more fundamental point is that the Wolves had Kevin Love to trade - an asset way more valuable than the collective assets Hinkie inherited.

What do you mean by success? How are the Wolves more successful than the Sixers?

xD.

I'm glad you mentioned Minnesota. The TWolves had a GM who was the joke of the league in David Kahn and finally got rid of him. Now, they have Ricky Rubio, Zach Lavine, Karl Anthony-Towns, Andrew Wiggins, Adreine Payne and Gorgui Dieng off the bench -- a team fans can root for.

[jason bourne]

I've been a critic of Sam Hinkie's rebuild plan since he traded Michael Carter-Williams and said he would deal anyone else on the Sixers including Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid for future draft picks.

Hinkie has done well in getting draft picks and Noel, but now a new GM needs to come in and build a team. Who would have thought Hinkie's plan was to acquire draft picks and not build a team? He doesn't have a cohesive unit that has played together from year-to-year. What he has are pieces he put together from the D-League, secondary trades and the draft. He didn't have a point guard last season and doesn't look to have one this season. He does not have a regular team and players that fans can get behind.

If you're going to suck and draft and accumulate draft picks, then Danny Ainge and the Boston Celtics have done a better job. They made the playoffs last year, have a cohesive team, have high draft picks to use or trade for players to build a team around. Boston and Philly used to be arch-rivals. What it shows is getting a superstar player in the draft is hard to come by as they do not come around every year.

This is some incredibly simplistic analysis. While the Celtics might have more future picks coming their way, those picks are not predicted to be as valuable as Philly's. Moreover, any of the valuable picks the Boston has (read: Brooklyn's) came from Ainge trading away valuable veterans, an option Hinkie did not have.

The simplistic analysis is Sam Hinkie's rebuild plan. I'd give him the size 16 boot out the door.

[Curmudgeon]

To the tune of the locomotion by Little Eva (also covered by Grand Funk Railroad)

Everyone is doing a brand new dance now
C'mon baby, do the Hinkie Hinkie
I know you'll get to like it
If you give it a chance now
C'mon baby, do the Hinkie Hinkie
Gotta do some losing if you want to build a winner
So what if attendance looks a little thinner
Gotta hit the lotto if you want to draft your binkie
So what if the team is looking pretty stinky
So come on, come on, do the Hinkie Hinkie with me.

[rugbyrugger23]

Well he definitely is NOT toeing the water!

He and 76ers have been unlucky. Since he started this path, he has not been able to select an NBA transcending, bonafide superstar. And unless the media hasn't caught on to it, doesn't seem like he is willing to go all-in with all his assets, and cap, to trade for one.

Other teams have tried this path, and failed, others have succeeded. I think he gets so much publicity cause of how train wreck it has gone down and is seems to be headed. Truly has the mad scientist feel to it.

[jbk1234]

I'll be okay with it if it stops after this year's draft. You can come out of a tank too early and stay in it too long. Hinkie's got to hit on his 1st round picks next draft and use some of his cap space next summer. If they don't look like they're trying to win at least 30 games next season, then I think the relationship between the F.O. and fans is going to be a problem, and more importantly, the rules committee might have a problem with the Sixers.

[Celts17Pride]

No. Never did.

[mksp]

Fair enough. I agree that what happens with Noel would be very telling. He doesn't look like he'll be a star, but he's the sort of useful young player most franchises wouldn't hesitate to lock up.

Isn't that the way Sixers fans used to feel about Michael Carter-Williams?

I'm late, but as a Sixers' fan, feel it's worthwhile to chime in on this point:

Not in the same hemisphere. Really not on the same planet.

MCW always was, and is, a flawed player.

I'd revolt if Hinkie traded Nerlens Noel for 3x the return that MCW got. He's a really good, ascending young player.

[nickhx2]

i think if he's still doing it after the 2016 draft then he's just making it weird for everyone.

[spearsy23]

I've been a critic of Sam Hinkie's rebuild plan since he traded Michael Carter-Williams and said he would deal anyone else on the Sixers including Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid for future draft picks.

Hinkie has done well in getting draft picks and Noel, but now a new GM needs to come in and build a team. Who would have thought Hinkie's plan was to acquire draft picks and not build a team? He doesn't have a cohesive unit that has played together from year-to-year. What he has are pieces he put together from the D-League, secondary trades and the draft. He didn't have a point guard last season and doesn't look to have one this season. He does not have a regular team and players that fans can get behind.

If you're going to suck and draft and accumulate draft picks, then Danny Ainge and the Boston Celtics have done a better job. They made the playoffs last year, have a cohesive team, have high draft picks to use or trade for players to build a team around. Boston and Philly used to be arch-rivals. What it shows is getting a superstar player in the draft is hard to come by as they do not come around every year.

I heard Hinkie's plan was to win 0 zero games and thus shoot the moon and get a championship. I feel like the team should replace Hinkie, because we all know there is no shooting the moon in basketball. And besides, if the goal is shooting the moon, New York and Minnesota were closer.

If I understand correctly, Hinkie's plan is to find a superstar before worrying about cohesiveness or team building. Is that correct? If so, how long do you give him to find that superstar before you would move on? Maybe that guy is already on the roster, in which case it's a moot point, but I'm curious about how much leash he has.

[76ciology]

Yes, because he has no choice. He inherited a team after the Bynum disaster and with mediocre guys with contracts expiring.

Oh, and because he was really efficient in getting that much assets in very limited time and cost.

What I don't agree with is that I hope he just went all out to tank and really make sure to get the worst record. That gives him a really good chance to get a no.1 pick rather than settling for the leftovers with the no.3 pick for the past two seasons. Sixers is just lucky that the guy who were once projected to be no.1 pick for quite some time always ends up landing to them (Noel, Biid and Jah).

If Sixers weren't lucky, Sixers would have not landed Noel. Sixers would have selected Exum last year and Russell this year. That would have been the cost of not getting the worst record.

[76ciology]

Yes, because he has no choice. He inherited a team after the Bynum disaster and with mediocre guys with contracts expiring.

Oh, and because he was really efficient in getting that much assets in very limited time and cost.

What I don't agree with is that I hope he just went all out to tank and really make sure to get the worst record. That gives him a really good chance to get a no.1 pick rather than settling for the leftovers with the no.3 pick for the past two seasons. Sixers is just lucky that the guy who were once projected to be no.1 pick for quite some time always ends up landing to them (Noel, Biid and Jah).

If Sixers weren't lucky, Sixers would have not landed Noel. Sixers would have selected Exum last year and Russell this year. That would have been the cost of not getting the worst record.

[Warspite]

I agree 100%

The only problem is when it doesn't work. The Kings for example have been doing it for about a decade and the Warriors did it for almost 2 decades. If GMs offer you sweetheart deals you have to take it. Trading MCW was a no brainer in hindsight. With rookie contracts you have a 3-5 yr window to rebuild before those rookies start to move on or become expensive. The real work in the rebuild begins when they have to start finding the right vets to work with this young core.

[HotelVitale]

Bucks are a decent counterpoint but hard to judge how much better a situation they were in 3 years ago. I think they owned all of their draft picks so that's a "better" start. What makes it tough is that they also had Brandon Jennings, which in retrospect sounds like nothing but at the time they were able to trade him for Middleton/Knight. It's hard to remember how much a real asset Jennings was at the time Hinkie took over vs. just total kudos to the Bucks for a terrific trade.

Not really. Jennings' value was only a little higher than what it is today; he struck out in free agency and the Bucks started shopping him around to see what they could scrap him for. Joe Dumars made a typical dumb move, but he had reasons to be frustrated with Knight (who wasn't at all effective in his couple years as their starter), and he needed a competent PG who could get his own shot.

It was a rash trade by DET but it wasn't because they overvalued Jennings. The shine was well off him by then, hence the Pistons only had to give him like a 3/22. They just didn't value Knight much and saw Jennings as more of a win-now guy. (Middleton was totally irrelevant, a throw-in no more meaningful than any team's 11th man. He shot 31% from 3 his only year with DET, wasn't considered a notable part of the trade).

[HotelVitale]

I'll be okay with it if it stops after this year's draft. You can come out of a tank too early and stay in it too long. Hinkie's got to hit on his 1st round picks next draft and use some of his cap space next summer. If they don't look like they're trying to win at least 30 games next season, then I think the relationship between the F.O. and fans is going to be a problem, and more importantly, the rules committee might have a problem with the Sixers.

But what do you do if the players just aren't good? Say Okafor either flops or isn't close to ready, Embiid's done, and next year's pick doesn't amount to much. The Sixers already play really hard and win more games than they should, and 3rd year Noel and rookie Saric aint winning you much more. I guess you could throw a max at some middling prospect or decent vet but that's only getting you into that 35-game area.

Also, the 'fans' really really don't care. I go to 20+ 76ers games per year, and the games are arguably more fun than they were in the Iggy days. The team hasn't been exciting for a long time, at least now the team is unique and interesting and there's a lot of things to speculate on. The whole reason this happened was because no one cared about the treadmill team so there wan't much risk in stripping it down and selling the spare parts.