Tim Hardaway Jr.

[BAMABIRD]

The kid has only been in the league 2 yrs. Had one good year and one bad, so the jury is still out. Maybe with better coaching and development he can be closer or even better than he was in his rookie year. The tools are there for him to be a successful role player. Has good size and a pretty good stroke. Look how much better Carroll got, hopefully Tim Jr. has similar success.

[nybluemeadow]

I see Hardaway turning into a better version of Marco Belinelli on the Spurs.

This is one of those things were i see a guy like Chad Ford giving it a draft grade of "D" but then 2yrs later he tries to secretly change it to a "+B" to save face. Same with fans now, i can see fans 2yrs from now saying how much they love Tim Hardaway Jr. when he is a 19ppg scorer for the Hawks and hoping nobody knows what dumb stuff they said when the trade happen.

[td00]

Good post nyblue....you state the truth...include Zach Lowe in on that as well....the media is killing this trade, except for Sekou Smith.

Wes and Bud had their agenda, and they feel they accomplished their agenda:

- SG help
- Shooting depth
- add'l assets

Grant may be good, but not bringing him here tells me Bud is satisfied with our combo heading into Year 3. For what JT and DS cost right now, its the right move.

Did anyone notice the Bucks gave up next year's #1 for Vasquez? I think its about our development of THJ to see what the result will be. And, I'd rather have him out there behind the line, instead of Antic throwing up 3s. Korver and THJ can play off each other on opposite sides of the court...and a better choice than if we had brought in a Steve Novak.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Just looking back at some of THJ 's highlights and actual games, I'm seeing some decent upside with him.

He's a bit of a streaky shooter right now, but his form is good and with some more coaching, he should become a better shooter.

He can post up and finish on the low block. He seems to get out in transition and finishes quite well.

Underrated athlete in my opinion. He can finish around the rim, whether it be in transition or the half court.

Has good vision and can find the bigs that open up off the dribble penetration he creates.

He shows good awareness with off the ball defense. Could use some on the ball, but we play team defense anyway, so maybe he will gain confidence and play better on the ball.

Overall, I didn't like the value of the trade, even I like the player we got, and i think we seem to be paying for his potential and current experience he has gained and the possibility of thinking we could develop him even more than what we did with DMC. I'm thinking this was a solid move as most 2 guards have a true breakout season in their 3rd year. THJ could end up a top 10 SG by the end of next year, and we end up with a Leonard type of steal. Funny how the 15th pick was involved in this.

[Jamaaliver]

Just looking back at some of THJ 's highlights and actual games, I'm seeing some decent upside with him.

Overall, I didn't like the value of the trade, even I like the player we got, and i think we seem to be paying for his potential and current experience he has gained and the possibility of thinking we could develop him even more than what we did with DMC. I'm thinking this was a solid move as most 2 guards have a true breakout season in their 3rd year. THJ could end up a top 10 SG by the end of next year, and we end up with a Leonard type of steal. Funny how the 15th pick was involved in this.

Some very good analysis. I'm skeptical on the Kawhi comparisons, but clearly Bud has liked what he has seen since he's been in the league. I can't help but wonder how good he'd bee if we'd drafted him in 2013 and he was entering year three in our system...

• Do you think he has any chance to be starting SG next season? Keeping in mind that Korver and Thabo are both 30+ coming off major injuries.
  
• Should THJ be subjected to our Summer League Team like a rookie?

[hawkschop1]

^If i had to guess I don't think timmy will be starting. I think our coaches value chemistry in our starting 5 too much. I could see him getting a start in a playoff game to shake the series a bit tho. Also, I don't think we ask him to join our LVSL team. IMHO.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Some very good analysis. I'm skeptical on the Kawhi comparisons, but clearly Bud has liked what he has seen since he's been in the league. I can't help but wonder how good he'd bee if we'd drafted him in 2013 and he was entering year three in our system...

• Do you think he has any chance to be starting SG next season? Keeping in mind that Korver and Thabo are both 30+ coming off major injuries.
  
• Should THJ be subjected to our Summer League Team like a rookie?

I wasn't really calling him Kawhi, but more or less a guy that no one expected to become such a good player.

I think we wouldn't have given up a first round pick to have him come off the bench, especially considering that Korver has his injury issue, and we only accepted some mediocre 2nds as filler value from the Wiz to trade down.

I'm under the impression after looking at a few games, and hearing how Bud and Wes have been keeping an eye on him, that we value THJ like a high quality prospect, and may have stole him from the Knicks. Melo sure seemed upset they got rid of him as well. Not that he is a great source for talent evaluation, but he seems to have recognized a key piece for a contender shipped away for a rookie.

THJ performed well as a rookie, and despite having a sophomore slump kind of year playing on a tuuurrible team, I think playing for a good coach, that has also developed a guy that others gave up on, will be a plus for him.

Summer league wouldn't be a bad move. THJ could get a feel for what we do before camp opens up, while we also get a better evaluation of what he may lack and need work with.

[SOUL]

If anybody needs an avatar and wants one of THJ here ya go:



http://i.imgur.com/PiiRKBf.png

[atlantabbq99]

Here is a question .....

Does Hardaway become an all star in the next 3-4 years?

Will Hardaway get traded in the next 3-4 years?

What is great about Coach Budz is that you can see that he really loves teaching and developing young players. That is alot different then an organization like the Hornets, who really doesn't develop young players at all.

We have seen Coach Budz develop and turn players like Korver, Millsap, and Teague into all stars, as well as develop Carroll into an eight figure player.

We have also seen Coach Budz give up on players really fast, when he doesn't believe in them or doesn't see the IQ in them, like Louis, Payne, and Bebe.

[Jamaaliver]

So, through the first 4 Pre-season games THJ is avg 4 PPG on 24% FG shooting. He's also shooting 25% from 3-pt range.

Any thoughts on what we're seeing thus far? Is this an understandable adjustment period coming from the triangle? Should he get MORE PT or perhaps less while getting accustomed?

How's his defense looked thus far?

Any concern over the lack of assists as well?

[teleblaze]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble guys but I have seen him alot last season and he is a chucker and has an egotistical mentality,
the draft trade was not a good trade for you guys especially where you were drafting which still had some decent players.

[MaceCase]

Given how consistently god awful DeMarre, Bazemore and Thabo looked early in their respective Hawk careers I'd say that there's an adjustment period for wings in Bud's system and little cause for concern at this moment. Couple that with it being preseason where scrubs look like stars and stars look like scrubs and.....well let's just say it's extremely early to be attempting to hand out any conclusions.

[PandaKidd]

I tend to agree. Preseason is tough, its a new system, he has to establish chemistry, get to know the system etc. Itll come, Need a much larger sample size.

Also , I havent watched preseason (im going Wed), but sometimes guys like THJ who are expected to be backups, it can be tough when you play with the 2nd/3rd string guys. Im not sure what his minutes look like as far as if hes playing with starters and such, but sometimes you can play much worse than you are capable if you are playing against/with much lesser talent.

Jury still out.

[Jamaaliver]

The insufferable Kris Willis over at Peachtree Hoops has weighed in on this exact issue. The consensus there as well is that it is too soon to sound any alarms:

Hardaway came into Wednesday's game just 6-25 from the field. He saw extended minutes against the Heat but was just 2-8 from the field finishing with seven points and six rebounds...Hardaway currently looks like a player that is thinking a bit too much rather than simply reacting.

Despite his struggles, Hardaway looks like a good bet to see minutes in Atlanta's rotation once the regular season begins. As was mentioned earlier, the Hawks paid a heavy price to acquire him so he will likely get ample opportunities to prove he can do the job.

THJ's Pre-season Shot Chart

Atlanta's other major wing acquisition Justin Holiday has also struggled going 2-for-17 from the field in four preseason games.

So expect the Hawks to show patience with Hardaway and to continue to bring him along slowly even while he is struggling offensively. To his credit, Atlanta has performed well defensively during the preseason with him on the floor. If that carries over into the regular season, then it will be easier to live with some of the growing pains offensively.

[FreeSpiritNY]

Sorry to say this but thjr is horrible. His defense is non existent and his shot selection is just wow what are you doing. Along with everything else he does so perfect he doesn't rebound or get any assist. He is that player that has a nice dunk and has hops and a pretty shot but just can't put it all together...

Sorry guys but hey if your wondering Grant has been amazing.

[Jamaaliver]

Sorry to say this but thjr is horrible....Sorry guys but hey if your wondering Grant has been amazing.

Thanks for the head's up.

We're still hopeful our coaching staff can at least help him find his niche on a winning team. The way Shumpert and JR Smith managed to help contribute to a top CLE team.


Regarding Grant, he wasn't going to be our pick even if we kept #19. Since we have Teague and Dennis Schroeder onboard, we'd likely have looked at swingmen or a backup big. Glad to hear he's working out for you though.

This does seem to reinforce the idea that we overpaid for THJ. Even if we were set on getting him here, we simply should have demanded more since THJ's stock was down so much after a sub-par season.

[jayu70]

Sorry to say this but thjr is horrible....Sorry guys but hey if your wondering Grant has been amazing.

This does seem to reinforce the idea that we overpaid for THJ.

You're taking the commentary of a Knick Fan? so that reinforces the idea that we overpaid when THJr has not played 1 second of regular season bball? OOOkay. Let's discuss mid-season at least he would have some meaningful games played by then. It's just too soon to tell.

As for his non-existant defense, must have been a NY thing because so far in pre-season per the article the Hawks defense hasn't suffered when he's been on the floor.

[Jamaaliver]

Sorry to say this but thjr is horrible....Sorry guys but hey if your wondering Grant has been amazing.

This does seem to reinforce the idea that we overpaid for THJ.

You're taking the commentary of a Knick Fan? so that reinforces the idea that we overpaid when THJr has not played 1 second of regular season bball? OOOkay. Let's discuss mid-season at least he would have some meaningful games played by then. It's just too soon to tell.

As for his non-existant defense, must have been a NY thing because so far in pre-season per the article the Hawks defense hasn't suffered when he's been on the floor.

1. I was being polite to a guest on our board.

2. I'm reserving judgment on THJ's abilities and fit until after the season. It's more about the value of that trade. The #15 pick we had last spring was simply worth more than THJ and a couple of future 2nd rounders. (In my humble opinion.)

If NY was interested in obtaining Grant or any other young prospect available at 19, we simply should have negotiated for more value in return. There's a reason most every analyst and pundit considered it a massive win for the Knicks. It's because the value we gave was much greater than what we received. Simple Market value.

Last year we gave up the 2015 Sixth Man of the Year (and the 2014 DPOY for the Spanish League) and got back little to no value as well. It's been a running theme for a few summers now from our Front Office.

[PandaKidd]

I tend to agree that we gave up too much, especially with so many contracts coming up. It would have made sense to draft and groom a young person on a thinner contract moving forward IMO.

Now, THJ is basically a 1 year rental we can walk away from, hes on a decent contract and for some reason CMB and staff coveted him much more than anyone else on the draft board.

I honestly dont think it matters from a offensive scoring position, if he can bring excellent defense I believe that is really all they are looking for .

[jayu70]

This does seem to reinforce the idea that we overpaid for THJ.

You're taking the commentary of a Knick Fan? so that reinforces the idea that we overpaid when THJr has not played 1 second of regular season bball? OOOkay. Let's discuss mid-season at least he would have some meaningful games played by then. It's just too soon to tell.

As for his non-existant defense, must have been a NY thing because so far in pre-season per the article the Hawks defense hasn't suffered when he's been on the floor.

1. I was being polite to a guest on our board.

2. I'm reserving judgment on THJ's abilities and fit until after the season. It's more about the value of that trade. The #15 pick we had last spring was simply worth more than THJ and a couple of future 2nd rounders. (In my humble opinion.)

If NY was interested in obtaining Grant or any other young prospect available at 19, we simply should have negotiated for more value in return. There's a reason most every analyst and pundit considered it a massive win for the Knicks. It's because the value we gave was much greater than what we received. Simple Market value.

Last year we gave up the 2015 Sixth Man of the Year (and the 2014 DPOY for the Spanish League) and got back little to no value as well. It's been a running theme for a few summers now from our Front Office.

My point is the value of the trade cannot yet be determined. The same analyst s and pundits who have been predicting the Hawks demise from when we traded Joe until now. Some here thought we didn't get 'market value' for Joe either, I've seen some say we got nothing for Joe.
Trying to determine perceived value without games played or see a return on the investment that's looking at it in a vacuum.