Post Bye what's your Nickel Defense look like?

HKPackFan · Post #1 » by **HKPackFan** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:02 am

I just want some opinions on the secondary.

Me personally I think Randall is better than Hawyard, especially outside. It's time to make Shields and Randall the starters outside, count me on the way too early Randall fanclub. I think he's a star in the making. He's not perfect, but he's had a pretty good start 6 games into his career. I think he's better than 2014 Tramon Williams of last year and I wonder how good he will be in a year or so with some more experience.

So if Shields and Randall are outside and Burnett and HHCD are the safeties, who's the nickel back? Hayward or Hyde? Rollins?

Is Hayward just a slot guy, but Hyde is more of a 3rd safety playing all over the place? So if that's the case does Hyde play the hybrid safety/slot DB in Nickel and Hayward just rotates in and sometimes in the dime?

Hyde did not have a good game. Sometimes he has a tough job of taking on a TE and at times he does OK, but sometimes he's just flat out SLOW. He's given up a number of TDs this year just trailing behind a guy and never getting there.

Or maybe he's looked bad because he's playing the wrong position? He just sucks filling in for Burnett and is much better in his hybrid role? If Burnett is back do you want Hyde back in his spot, or do you prefer Hayward?

I'm thinking Hyde if the theory is he's the better tackler, and if the offense calls a run or a dump off we need a DB who can tackle in space and I don't trust Hayward.

I guess I'm just wavering on Hyde right now justified or not. Considering we play Nickel more than base it's basically like a starting position.

HKPackFan · Post #2 » by **HKPackFan** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:15 am

Or we just play them all and go in our 1-3-7 defense.

Daniels
LOLB Peppers, ILB Mathews, ROLB Elliott/Neal

LCB Randall, slotDB Hayward, Hybrid Hyde, extra inside DB Rollins, RCB Shields

HHCD Burnett

Gonna draw this out on a napkin and give Capers a call. :lol:

Ron Swanson · Post #3 » by **Ron Swanson** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:36 pm

Hyde's lack of athleticism was exposed in a major way yesterday. If you're getting out-run by a 35 year old Antonio Gates, you have no business covering WR's, let alone quick, speedy ones in the slot. They were targeting him on almost every other throw it seemed, and he just kept getting burned. It was tough to watch...

At least Hayward and Rollins have the speed to keep up with most guys in the nickel. We really need Burnett back so we can relegate Hyde to back up safety and occasional dime back where he belongs.

crkone · Post #4 » by **crkone** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:56 pm

Just having Burnett back will make a huge difference. Throw in a healthy Raji and they'll be sitting pretty.

jimmybones · Post #5 » by **jimmybones** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:11 pm

I'm on board with Randall and Shields outside. Nickel/dime DBs are Hayward and Rollins. Hyde is 100% a hybrid player. He can have a role- but it has to be in sets where he isn't asked to be a primary cover man. He can replace an ILB and be a 6th DB or even play some at safety, as long as it's not a match up man to man guy.

He needs to be used either as a 3rd safety where he can move around around the LOS or some match ups with some TEs. Hyde at this point can't be a slot or outside corner and really has no business covering any WR or RBs.

FAH1223 · Post #6 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:21 pm

Hayward should be in the slot. I'd even prefer Hayward playing some hybrid S because he's a ball hawk and I'd love to get him around the football more often. His tackling sucks though.

Rollins also is ready for more snaps IMO.

M-C-G · Post #7 » by **M-C-G** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:20 pm

Hyde is a totally mismatched against every type of player. He gets roasted by big TE, he gets run by average TE, he gets out quicked by WR. He is a ST guy and a back up safety, that really should be it.

So the question for me is the Hayward vs Rollins in the slot. Hayward looks like he hasn't really regained his quicks from that foot injury, and if not for Hyde being so exposed it would be a much rougher season for him. That said, let him play the slot and find some opportunities to get Rollins more looks on the field.

I can't imagine Hayward being back based on our depth there and all the free agents we will need to spend on. It is a classic Oakland move to pay him a big contract and then figure out that he just doesn't work on the outside.

M-C-G · Post #8 » by **M-C-G** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:22 pm

And on a side note, if we get any injuries in the secondary, I hope we bring up Gunter and make him the designated "cover the TE" guy like Richardson was for a while.

I think he'd do well there.

HKPackFan · Post #9 » by **HKPackFan** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:30 am

M-C-G wrote:Hyde is a totally mismatched against every type of player. He gets roasted by big TE, he gets run by average TE, he gets out quicked by WR. He is a ST guy and a back up safety, that really should be it.

So the question for me is the Hayward vs Rollins in the slot. Hayward looks like he hasn't really regained his quicks from that foot injury, and if not for Hyde being so exposed it would be a much rougher season for him. That said, let him play the slot and find some opportunities to get Rollins more looks on the field.

I can't imagine Hayward being back based on our depth there and all the free agents we will need to spend on. It is a classic Oakland move to pay him a big contract and then figure out that he just doesn't work on the outside.

So Hayward is your nickel and Hyde sits?

HKPackFan · Post #10 » by **HKPackFan** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:43 am

jimmybones wrote:I'm on board with Randall and Shields outside. Nickel/dime DBs are Hayward and Rollins. Hyde is 100% a hybrid player. He can have a role- but it has to be in sets where he isn't asked to be a primary cover man. He can replace an ILB and be a 6th DB or even play some at safety, as long as it's not a match up man to man guy.

He needs to be used either as a 3rd safety where he can move around around the LOS or some match ups with some TEs. Hyde at this point can't be a slot or outside corner and really has no business covering any WR or RBs.

This is kinda where I'm at with Hyde basically having some value as a db because he can tackle. He can't be used in man situations, but as a db put in place to make a tackle for the underneath throws. Rollins and Hayward were missing tackles but they are better cover guys.

Next year Hayward will be gone, he's a better prospect than davon house and house got paid so no doubt Hayward will get paid so next year Rollins will be the 5th db I prefer Rollins upside over Hayward at this point.

BTW how are Tramon and davon doing? I hope they are having probowl years to help us get a good compensation pick, I'm sure the ghost of TT is hoping as well.

HKPackFan · Post #11 » by **HKPackFan** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:23 am

Answering my own question. Tramon is stated as their best corner, but seems like he cost them a game last week, ouch. Glad we have Randall making game saving plays.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/10/tramon_williams_cleveland_brow_1.html

Williams jumped offsides on Josh Lambo's 39-yard field-goal attempt, which he shanked wide right in the dying moments of regulation. Instead of heading to overtime, Lambo got a second shot, five yards closer, and sent the Browns to their third defeat in four games.

Just minutes from another Super Bowl berth, the Packers blew a 12-point lead to the Seahawks, losing 28-22 in OT. The epic playoff game ended with Williams getting beat by Jermaine Kearse on a 35-yard touchdown. His coverage was good. Russell Wilson's pass was better.

"I am mentally tough," he said Sunday after the game. "That's one of the things I bring to the table. Things happen. Some things you may not want to happen, but it happens. On and off the field I have been through a lot."

Nobody faulted Williams, who's been the Browns best defensive back, for his penalty on the first kick.

"You don't say anything to him," Coach Mike Pettine said. "He battled and played his tail off for 60 minutes and at the end he tried to make a play. It was just a shade early. I'm not going to say anything to him other than thanks for your effort."

HKPackFan · Post #12 » by **HKPackFan** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:41 am

Regarding Davon House:

http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/jaguars-cb-davon-house-in-action-at-friday-practice/

Jaguars cornerback Davon House (foot) was seen practicing Friday, per Hays Carlyon of the Florida Times-Union.

The big free-agent addition from the Packers hasn't been all that effective so far - he's recorded just seven tackles and hasn't forced a turnover in 177 snaps this season - but his presence will be needed when Jacksonville takes on Indianapolis this Sunday.

Oh man. So I just looked up House's game and on Sunday it was not pretty. Oh man, this is painful to watch. The first 2-3 plays I will say the WR Hopkins made great plays, but the last 2 TD plays. Ugh. :noway:

Just awful. Thank Goodness Jacksonville is paying him $6+million a year to NOT be a Packer. Oh man, this is so ugly to watch. :nonono:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/0ap3000000560112/DeAndre-Hopkins-highlights

Sorry I went off topic on my own thread do'h!

M-C-G · Post #13 » by **M-C-G** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:26 pm

HKPackFan wrote:
M-C-G wrote:Hyde is a totally mismatched against every type of player. He gets roasted by big TE, he gets run by average TE, he gets out quicked by WR. He is a ST guy and a back up safety, that really should be it.

So the question for me is the Hayward vs Rollins in the slot. Hayward looks like he hasn't really regained his quicks from that foot injury, and if not for Hyde being so exposed it would be a much rougher season for him. That said, let him play the slot and find some opportunities to get Rollins more looks on the field.

I can't imagine Hayward being back based on our depth there and all the free agents we will need to spend on. It is a classic Oakland move to pay him a big contract and then figure out that he just doesn't work on the outside.

So Hayward is your nickel and Hyde sits?

That is my ideal scenario.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #14 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:36 pm

I'm curious as to what they will actually do because Hyde was the nickel the one week that Burnett played. Now I would think they are more comfortable with Randle now that he has a few games under his belt but who knows since that week 2 game he was coming off a good opening game.

The coaching staff does seem to love Hyde. He's a nice utility guy to use on special teams, situational d, and for injuries but really shouldn't be counted on outside of that.

I'm at the point where I think Randle should be the outside guy across from shields in every d including the base.