Arena Construction - Make pitch for ASG in 22/23. pg 95

[trwi7]

Why would anyone be surprised nothing has been released? They've been **** awful at timelines and updates throughout this whole process.

[paulpressey25]

The first two things to go out will be the arena itself and the parking garage, I think those 2 are in place as to where they will go.

The first thing to go out is the practice facility. Plans for that are much farther along and that is on the farthest west lot in the park east which doesn't have the many construction issues that need to be solved with the main development. You should see something on that very shortly along with a construction timetable.

[MickeyDavis]

I forgot about the practice facility. Surprised nothing has come out about that either.

[trwi7]

Surprised nothing has come out about that either.

Honestly, why? They haven't been forthcoming on anything so you're surprised they haven't been forthcoming on this?

[drew881]

Surprised nothing has come out about that either.

Honestly, why? They haven't been forthcoming on anything so you're surprised they haven't been forthcoming on this?

Surprised because it is unprecedented. Yes, they have been late continually with designs. But I'm not sure I know of any team that is a month away from breaking ground that hasn't showed detailed plans. Compounded with the fact that this is partially publicly funded, this seems pretty astounding.

[paulpressey25]

The technical drawings for something like this take months and months to complete. And with a project this size the drawings and schematic plans alone cost millions of dollars. Plus you have to deal with the site itself and challenges with the swamp foundation in the area.

I'd guess LED didn't want to pony up the millions for the real drawings until they got past the Sept. 22nd final approval along w/acquisition of the Park East.

And my guess is that until you get the technical drawings correct, you won't want to release the sketches. Otherwise if something were to change, people would get upset or disappointed. Add in the fact the City of Milwaukee politicians and planners want to review all of this for aesthetics.

Then you've got to bid out the job itself, and there is a requirement a large number of local and minority contractors are part of this. Given the NML building and all the other construction going on, we may not have enough tradespeople locally to meet those requirements as well.

TLDR Version: This is a lot more complex than a Miracle Home's 3 bedroom in New Berlin.

[VooDoo7]

What was the point in releasing the initial rendering then? Especially if the city has to approve the design first? I'd be willing to bet the final design will look nothing like the renderings we saw. Just a hunch, tho.

[mbradleyc]

So they bought the team a year and a half ago and now are on the verge of ceremonial groundbreaking. In between they have crossed the Rubicon of political infighting and won everything easily. This baby is sailing along. Relax.

But stay excited!

Oh yeah, in the meantime they have completely rebuilt the very structure of the team from offices, marketing, players, coaches, uniforms, announcers, culture, style, attitude, WINNING....hands up if you really think they aren't kicking ass!

[TripleDouble]

What was the point in releasing the initial rendering then? Especially if the city has to approve the design first? I'd be willing to bet the final design will look nothing like the renderings we saw. Just a hunch, tho.

Being involved in the creation of drawings, I can confirm the process is multiple steps and months of work before working drawings are completed to a point that would be accurate enough to make more detailed and accurate renderings for public consumption. For a point of reference, I worked on Lambeu for three years during phases 2 and 3 of the renovation, which were the main phases of the renovation (phase 1 was the piling work and drilling deep underground which is obviously extremely important but not the oooooo, aaaaaa portion of the work), so I have been involved in at least one project with this publicity level and the timelines involved. The initial renderings that were released would be that architects vision for what the building would look like, but will likely be very different once details are ironed out (as a quick FYI, cost is only one of the details factored into the final drawings).

A generalized process for the drawings from this point forward would involve: the architect creating a functional space plan, followed by a submittal to the owners, that is likely to be (and should be) revised multiple times, applying that functional space plan to a footprint; once the footprint is determined (or more likely to "speed things up, during this process), the other disciplines will work creating their drawings from the architects vision (revisions often happen here as well, depending on how far the architect pushed the envelope on what is possible) - this will result in full sets of drawings for civil, architectural, structural, electrical, as well as any number of other disciplines required; finally a compiled set of those drawings are sent to specific disciplines to create shop drawings for each area. To give an idea of the amount of work involved in this process, for a project this size each discipline will have anywhere in the range of 50-250 full sheets in their drawing set in addition to the spec book that will be created, and the number of different disciplines creating drawings is restricted only by the architects design.

Relatively accurate elevations and models (which are what the general population will enjoy) are usually available somewhere after the footprint is finalized and each floor plan is completed.

I cannot emphasize enough that taking time in this process saves millions of dollars and tons of time during construction. Unfortunately that doesn't happen because owners are pushing to get their buildings up, so unfinished plans and layouts are passed through each level, causing each level to then have to make each change as areas that need changes are found. Revisions and changes obviously happen, but they are typically one of the largest factors in causing delays. They also will raise final costs significantly. There can be exceptions, but even in situations where the project scope is reduced, the actual saving are much less then they would have been if it was designed the right way the first time or designed within the owners actual budget because of the amount of work that must be done making changes through each step of the process (including material that was prepared before the changes were sent out, where the field is left trying to make things work if they can't get the new material costs approved).

In short, the point of the initial renderings was to show the architects initial vision and releasing them publicly is obviously intended to raise excitement and support, and it taking a while before the next drawings are released is a good thing, not a bad one! I should also add that there may have been some functional design done by the architect in the initial renderings if they had settled on the architect before those were released, but with the short timeline I doubt that.

[MickeyDavis]

Saw this blurb in an article about the MMAC and their proposed tax increase for cultural endeavors

Monday's MMAC meeting also will include speeches by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and Milwaukee Bucks president Peter Feigin and coach Jason Kidd, who will provide updates about new arena to be built in downtown Milwaukee.

I don't know if the arena "updates" will be anything new or not, I guess we'll see later today.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Saw this blurb in an article about the MMAC and their proposed tax increase for cultural endeavors

Monday's MMAC meeting also will include speeches by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and Milwaukee Bucks president Peter Feigin and coach Jason Kidd, who will provide updates about new arena to be built in downtown Milwaukee.

I don't know if the arena "updates" will be anything new or not, I guess we'll see later today.

I'll be there. Will post any relevant updates.

[MickeyDavis]

Great

[mcfromage]

Looking forward to a full account from Paul, but for now there's this:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/brewcitypaul/status/658785508282138624[/tweet]

[mcfromage]

Now the Biz Journal is up (quickly, impressive!) with some details. Plans were submitted today for the "6 story" arena.

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2015/10/26/milwaukee-bucks-submit-downtown-development-plans.html?ana=twt

UPDATE: Here's the full text. Possible skywalk between the parking and the arena (!) ::

The Milwaukee Bucks ownership group submitted its first arena development plan to the city for review late Monday, laying out plans for about $1 billion in development on almost 25 acres of downtown Milwaukee.

It includes construction of the six-story arena and demolition of the BMO Harris Bradley Center and its neighboring parking structure to the west. The Bradley Center property, along with almost 10 acres in the Park East corridor, would be redeveloped.

"This is another step forward," Bucks president Peter Feigin said at the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce annual meeting Monday. "It will take place over the next two to 10 years."

The Bucks ownership group would lead the overall development, but plans to recruit other developers to participate on individual projects and buildings. The overall project is expected to last more than 10 years. City approval for the overall plan is required before work can begin.

The blocks around the new arena would have a variety of buildings, including offices, apartments,restaurants and retail, a grocery, seasonal market, parking decks, and a hotel.

The plans submitted to the city are general and allow a wide range of uses. They are similar to the city’s original plan for the Park East corridor, which lays out minimum and maximum building heights, but restricts few uses to encourage flexibility.

Included in the Bucks package are hundreds of pages of reports, including traffic studies with recommendations for local roads and plans for sewer relocations. While general on the details of the buildings themselves, the plan gives an idea of what people downtown can expect to see as the project kicks off.

Early work includes construction of an interceptor sewer along West McKinley Avenue, between Seventh and Old World Third streets. That sewer would replace one that runs through the center of the Park East blocks.

The vacant Park East blocks between Fifth and Old World Third streets would be fenced off so they can become the main staging areas for contractors building the new arena. Buildings on the arena site, south of Juneau Avenue between Fourth and Sixth streets, will be ripped down.

Then the six-story arena would start to go up, along with a parking structure and team practice facility on either side of Sixth Street to the north in the Park East. A skywalk may be built over Juneau Avenue to connect the arena and the parking structure.

As the arena is going up, the parking structure at Fourth Street and Juneau Avenue will be torn down to make room for a planned entertainment block. That block would be completed after the arena.

That work is anticipated to last into 2017, according to plans the Bucks submitted to Milwaukee County last summer. The demolition of the Bradley Center would follow. Its footprint would be redeveloped over several years with a new parking structure, retail, office space and a hotel, according to the summer plans.

The last properties expected to be developed are on the Park East Blocks between Fifth and Old World Third streets. They would remain surface parking lots well into the 2020s, under the Bucks proposal.

[MickeyDavis]

There better be skywalks between everything in the new development. Great to see things (finally) moving forward

[VooDoo7]

There better be skywalks between everything in the new development. Great to see things (finally) moving forward

I sure hope so. You'd think that would've been mentioned in the meeting tho. That'd be pretty big news.

[trwi7]

Putting a skywalk between only the parking garage and the arena gives people every reason to just go to the game and leave.

[MickeyDavis]

Yup. Have to have them between everything down there. Shouldn't be hard to plan and do. Go underground if that works better.

[HaroldinGMinor]

Putting a skywalk between only the parking garage and the arena gives people every reason to just go to the game and leave.

Exactly. If you put a good product on the floor people will come regardless of skywalks. I think it will take away from the street level bar restaurants a bit.

[MickeyDavis]

It's not a matter of getting them to come to games. It's a matter of getting them to stay after the game and spend money in the new places.