New starting lineup

[LamarMatic7]

not all nba players are 4% bodyfat

hell, chris paul barely has a 6 pack and he's easily on the strongest pgs in the league
paul pierce has had 'baby weight' his entire career - and has been a premier athlete the entire time
melo has been working in that frame since his rookie year and still throws defenders off of him on the low block with ease

yal sound ridiculous with this. according to the entire staff and all the vet players, pj's put in work this offseason

So only one of those guys is a plus defender. And you used three of the greatest basketball players to make your point about PJ **** Hairston.

But you're right it was ridiculous, even if he does lose weight he'll be a **** defender.

But he wasn't even a bad defender last year lol

and i named those guys because people say that they're 'fat' too. it just shows a complete lack of understanding and general ignorance regarding body types, fitness, etc

yal just scapegoat the dude relentlessly for some reason

I have to disagree. I saw him as a terrible defender last year. He tends to fall asleep off the ball, he doesn't sense that screens are coming and when they are he can't get around them, he often loses his man, etc.

Worst in regards of the defensive rating (105.3, Daniels was the only to be worse, yet his sample size is tiny) and definitely the worst as far as man-on-man defense screw-ups are concerned.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2WD95ecTM[/youtube]

[EwingSweatsALot]

So only one of those guys is a plus defender. And you used three of the greatest basketball players to make your point about PJ **** Hairston.

But you're right it was ridiculous, even if he does lose weight he'll be a **** defender.

But he wasn't even a bad defender last year lol

and i named those guys because people say that they're 'fat' too. it just shows a complete lack of understanding and general ignorance regarding body types, fitness, etc

yal just scapegoat the dude relentlessly for some reason

I have to disagree. I saw him as a terrible defender last year. He tends to fall asleep off the ball, he doesn't sense that screens are coming and when they are he can't get around them, he often loses his man, etc.

Worst in regards of the defensive rating (105.3, Daniels was the only to be worse, yet his sample size is tiny) and definitely the worst as far as man-on-man defense screw-ups are concerned.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2WD95ecTM[/youtube]

And here is the best eye test guy on these boards to go along with my numbers that I just posted on the last page.

[LamarMatic7]

In case you think his sample size is affected by the people who we played alongside there doesn't seem to be any reason to believe so:

He got his chances with both the bench and starters.

If you look the second most often used Hairston line-up, yes, in 32 minutes it has given up 117.3 per 100 poss. (Maxiell-Cody-Hairston-Neal-Roberts). However, if you take away Hairston and look at that 4-man line-up it actually was decent as in 75 minutes it gave up 96.8 points per 100 possesions. That basically means that Hairston screwed them over on defense whenever he joined them.

And, lastly, ESPN Real-Plus Minus adjusts for any shortcomings that your line-up mates might have. It adjusts for the fact that if you play with Durant all the time, that might have something to do with the fact that you're on/off metrics are so good. So, yeah, among 89 shooting guards last year Hairston was the 79th worst in defensive RPM. Ironically, Troy Daniels is one spot above him, while Kobe is right behind PJ.

[LamarMatic7]

But he wasn't even a bad defender last year lol

and i named those guys because people say that they're 'fat' too. it just shows a complete lack of understanding and general ignorance regarding body types, fitness, etc

yal just scapegoat the dude relentlessly for some reason

I have to disagree. I saw him as a terrible defender last year. He tends to fall asleep off the ball, he doesn't sense that screens are coming and when they are he can't get around them, he often loses his man, etc.

Worst in regards of the defensive rating (105.3, Daniels was the only to be worse, yet his sample size is tiny) and definitely the worst as far as man-on-man defense screw-ups are concerned.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2WD95ecTM[/youtube]

And here is the best eye test guy on these boards to go along with my numbers that I just posted on the last page.

I should have some footage of what I call his "ADHD defense" somewhere as well. But, yeah, this is about him not knowing how to deal with screens.

[yosemiteben]

I agree with ESAL and Lamar, I looked at his defensive numbers from last season myself and while he showed good athleticism and at times impressed me with his defense, on the whole he was quite underwhelming and the advanced stats are very unkind about his performance.

I attribute a major part of that to the fact that he likely has never had a disciplined coach that required him to play tough defense. I think the tools are there and I expect major improvement from him on that end. We'll see.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Honestly I expect that starting him will not help improve his defense. We've seen PJ say the right things before.

[yosemiteben]

Honestly I expect that starting him will not help improve his defense.

I think this offseason and getting another training camp with Cliff will hopefully improve his defense. Agree that being put in the starting lineup won't help - if anything he'll regularly be stuck guarding far better players than he guarded coming off the bench last season.

[DY_nasty]

I have to disagree. I saw him as a terrible defender last year. He tends to fall asleep off the ball, he doesn't sense that screens are coming and when they are he can't get around them, he often loses his man, etc.

Worst in regards of the defensive rating (105.3, Daniels was the only to be worse, yet his sample size is tiny) and definitely the worst as far as man-on-man defense screw-ups are concerned.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2WD95ecTM[/youtube]

And here is the best eye test guy on these boards to go along with my numbers that I just posted on the last page.

I should have some footage of what I call his "ADHD defense" somewhere as well. But, yeah, this is about him not knowing how to deal with screens.

All rookies have issues with screens, as an on-ball defender he was far from terrible. For a rookie, he had all the tools of a solid wing defensive player

especially considering that outside of MKG, biz, and Zeller, the entire team was consistently inconsistent for the majority of the year. for a rookie in a circus, i think he did okay on D all things considered. hell, rookie henderson had the same hurdles

[yosemiteben]

PJ guarded Paul George when we played Indy in the pre-season. George played 23 minutes and finished 3 - 9 from the field, 1-3 3PT, 5 - 6 from the line, with 4 assists. George was averaging 18.7 points in 24 minutes played across preseason, on 43% FG and 39% 3PT.

PJ was only -1 in 23 minutes (Cody was -14 in 27 minutes, ouch).

Obviously that single data point is massively relevant.

[Braggins]

Pj has the size and athleticism to be a good defender, but currently the only aspect of defense that he doesnt seem bad at is making plays. Occasionally he'll display a nice nose for the ball and some nice anticipation, but mostly hes just been sleepwalking out there. Hopefully he'll be more aware overall this season.

[LamarMatic7]

All rookies have issues with screens, as an on-ball defender he was far from terrible. For a rookie, he had all the tools of a solid wing defensive player

especially considering that outside of MKG, biz, and Zeller, the entire team was consistently inconsistent for the majority of the year. for a rookie in a circus, i think he did okay on D all things considered. hell, rookie henderson had the same hurdles

first off, I'm not blaming him or anything. just saying like it is - he is a bad defender. yes, he is a rookie and, yes, rookies tend to struggle on that end, especially offensive-minded ones like he.

but that shouldn't make it acceptable. I understand trying and failing at doing some tasks but failing to pay attention and falling asleep isn't acceptable. also - you can't set the bar of being "okay on D all things considered" at, perhaps, being the worst on the team. there just has to be some level of expectations.

[BlackOutBuzz]

Starting Hairston, and Marvin at the 4, is just odd. Given Clifford's desire to keep Lin, Lamb, Zeller, and Hawes together on the second unit, this basically keeps Kaminsky out of the rotation. Really a bad look after the beating we took for taking the "instant impact" rookie over the other options out there.

[Braggins]

I'm actually really confident that our ideal rotation right now (with Lamb) is:

Starters - Kemba, Lamb, Batum, Marv, Cody
Primary subs - Lin, PJ, Frank, Al
Spot minutes - Psycho, Hawes, Roberts
Bench warmers - Daniels, Harrison

Closing lineup - Kemba, Lin, Batum, Marv/Frank, Zeller

We just need to go ahead and accept that Alfense isn't anything more than a gimmick that might be good for 20-25 minutes a game against opposing second units before our season is all but over.

[DY_nasty]

PJ did fine against Wade

[Mystical Apples]

Based on what was asked of them Batum, PJ and Marvin were the least glitchy of the starters. PJ's defense was good and was able to get into Wades body without fouling. He had a few problems but most players do.

[yosemiteben]

Cliff has fully supported keeping PJ in the starting lineup and has complimented his defense. Will be very interesting to see if PJ stays in the rotation.

[BigSlam]

I'm think I'm starting to swing towards the "Lamb should start" way of thinking.

I think posters make an excellent point of his value being on the 2nd unit where he can be the #1 option - that said, why not make him the #1 option on the starting unit?

Lamb would be #1, Al #2 and Kemba #3.

Batum takes the oppositions best offensive wing on D.

Anything that encourages Kemba to get others involved while taking the pressure off himself to try and score would be a good thing.

Have Lin be the #1 option on the second unit with Frank the #2 and PJ the #3.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[spaceballer]

I'm think I'm starting to swing towards the "Lamb should start" way of thinking.

I think posters make an excellent point of his value being on the 2nd unit where he can be the #1 option - that said, why not make him the #1 option on the starting unit?

Lamb would be #1, Al #2 and Kemba #3.

Batum takes the oppositions best offensive wing on D.

Anything that encourages Kemba to get others involved while taking the pressure off himself to try and score would be a good thing.

Have Lin be the #1 option on the second unit with Frank the #2 and PJ the #3.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

It's a small sample size (so hard to really derive any solid conclusions that aren't subject to variations due to that small sample size), but so far, the numbers seem to show that the starting lineup with Lamb may be much worse than the starting lineup with PJ.

The Kemba/PJ/Batum/Marv/Al lineup is at #2 in netRTG (#1 is with Lin replacing PJ), while the Kemba/Lamb/Batum/Marv/Al lineup is #11 with a minus-22.8 netRTG.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CharlotteHornets/comments/3s09ar/best_lineups_so_far/