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GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST

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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#521 » by Flip Murray » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:16 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:I remember back to the draft where I lost my **** mind that we passed on Winslow. Then as the months passed the inevitable optimism crept in. Maybe this time it would be different. But of course once again I sit there and watch that rookie ride the pine.

It was a single damn game, and we had been told what the initial rotation would look like for weeks. If we were like the Heat and had no depth at the spot where we drafted our rookie, then Frank would be playing more.


Spencer Hawes I mean come on. That said keep in mind game thread= irrational overreactions, other threads = rational reflective discussion. Honestly can you blame people for overreacting? We've seen it so many times before
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#522 » by yosemiteben » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:17 pm

Flip Murray wrote:Spencer Hawes I mean come on. That said keep in mind game thread= irrational overreactions, other threads = rational reflective discussion. Honestly can you blame people for overreacting? We've seen it so many times before

It's after noon on the next day. When does some rationality start creeping in?

Maybe I'll just stay out of game threads altogether.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#523 » by Flip Murray » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:21 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:Spencer Hawes I mean come on. That said keep in mind game thread= irrational overreactions, other threads = rational reflective discussion. Honestly can you blame people for overreacting? We've seen it so many times before

It's after noon on the next day. When does some rationality to start creeping in?

Maybe I'll just stay out of game threads altogether.


Maybe never for me at this point. I think I've lost my mind. You're totally right on this though I'm going to try to withhold judgment. I think it's the maxiell vonleh thing thats got me
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#524 » by Flip Murray » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:28 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:Spencer Hawes I mean come on. That said keep in mind game thread= irrational overreactions, other threads = rational reflective discussion. Honestly can you blame people for overreacting? We've seen it so many times before

It's after noon on the next day. When does some rationality start creeping in?

Maybe I'll just stay out of game threads altogether.


Also to be fair this is making up for all the **** I would have posted last night but couldn't because the servers didn't work. Never got my cathartic vent in.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#525 » by Dancingpanda » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:37 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:Spencer Hawes I mean come on. That said keep in mind game thread= irrational overreactions, other threads = rational reflective discussion. Honestly can you blame people for overreacting? We've seen it so many times before

It's after noon on the next day. When does some rationality start creeping in?

Maybe I'll just stay out of game threads altogether.


once this team proves they can win. Can you really blame people for this (even if they are terribly wrong), when Charlotte has been a bad team for most of the last 10 years?

with that said it is only one game, and we had some wide open shots that just wouldn't fall. so here is hoping it was just a bad shooting night all around.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#526 » by Flip Murray » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:40 pm

Dancingpanda wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:Spencer Hawes I mean come on. That said keep in mind game thread= irrational overreactions, other threads = rational reflective discussion. Honestly can you blame people for overreacting? We've seen it so many times before

It's after noon on the next day. When does some rationality start creeping in?

Maybe I'll just stay out of game threads altogether.


once this team proves they can win. Can you really blame people for this (even if they are terribly wrong), when Charlotte has been a bad team for most of the last 10 years?

with that said it is only one game, and we had some wide open shots that just wouldn't fall. so here is hoping it was just a bad shooting night all around.


He's right. I'm gonna tone down the nutty rhetoric for a couple weeks until we know what the teams going to look like
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#527 » by yosemiteben » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:43 pm

Flip Murray wrote:Also to be fair this is making up for all the **** I would have posted last night but couldn't because the servers didn't work. Never got my cathartic vent in.

Fair point :lol:
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#528 » by Dancingpanda » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:45 pm

Honestly i loved Cliff's rotation last night. He has also seemed to recognize and address our biggest problems last night. No ball movement and Lack of effort on D.

so lets give this team at lest 10 games before we write them off. I mean Cleveland looked terrible starting off last year, and then they figured it out. (although i do realize we don't have Lebron, Love, and Kyrie lol)
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#529 » by MPM » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:46 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
Flip Murray wrote:Spencer Hawes I mean come on. That said keep in mind game thread= irrational overreactions, other threads = rational reflective discussion. Honestly can you blame people for overreacting? We've seen it so many times before

It's after noon on the next day. When does some rationality start creeping in?

Maybe I'll just stay out of game threads altogether.


I understand that you're no fan of emotional criticism (completely agree, and I'm with you), and I try to steer clear of knee jerk responses to poor games, but I think some of the critiques/grievances on here are more than rational, particularly in light of what have become year-after-year patterns and on-court play that flies in the face of stated direction. Seriously, Clifford sounded more harsh post game than many of us here on the board.

For the record, I'm fine with us drafting Frank. Entirely shocked that we passed on Winslow at the time, but no problems at this point. I'm also fine with bringing him along slowly in a backup capacity. However, I think we all agree that his situation is different than Vonleh, so I'm just hoping that his development (or lack thereof) is not handled the same way.

The big difference is that Frank is a smart player that already has a comfort level on the floor that many rookies take years to develop and has skills - right now - that this team needs (passing, shooting). He also has a player in front of him - Hawes - that brings little to the table that Kaminsky does not apart from a bit of bulk (which doesn't seem to help his low post D) and experience. I honestly believe you slide Frank into Hawes' role last night and we see better results.

Vonleh was raw (still is) but the issue with Vonleh is that even when the season looked lost, Clifford insisted on giving Maxiell burn when a young asset that needed to be developed sat on the bench. Production-wise there was very little separating Max and Vonleh, so logic would dictate that you play your future asset. This is the concern - that Clifford might sit a rookie out of principle as opposed to playing rookies on a case by case basis.

I also somewhat disagree with the impression of Winslow's usage last night. Agree to disagree perhaps. Deng, Wade, Green, Dragic, Chalmers, etc. are all vets that deserve court time, yet the Heat managed to carve out 26 minutes for Winslow. He also saw minutes before Johnson (nearly 19 mpg last year, 0 last night) and Ennis (17 mpg last year, 0 last night) showing the Spoelstra is giving his rookie significant minutes because he thinks Winslow can provide more than other, more seasoned, contributors. And this is for a win now team. Again, I think you flip flop Kaminsky (6 minutes) and Hawes (18 minutes) last night and you see a better result while developing your more important asset. I'd be fine with 18 for Tank and 6 for Hawes for the remainder of the season. It's a minor single game criticism that may not mean anything if Frank starts to see more burn, but if it develops into a season long pattern, I'd be very disappointed.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#530 » by yosemiteben » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:09 pm

MPM wrote:I understand that you're no fan of emotional criticism (completely agree, and I'm with you), and I try to steer clear of knee jerk responses to poor games, but I think some of the critiques/grievances on here are more than rational, particularly in light of what have become year-after-year patterns and on-court play that flies in the face of stated direction. Seriously, Clifford sounded more harsh post game than many of us here on the board.

That's kind of my point. Folks want to be all "here we go again" when this game was very different from how we played last season and Cliff himself is accurately articulating the concerns. Al played 22 minutes despite going 8 - 14 when he played. Our rotations were much more dynamic (using Marv as SF to free up some minutes for Frank, subing Batum for Lin when our offense was all gunked up in the 3rd quarter, running Cody and Marv as our bigs down the stretch).

We managed to make a game competitive in the last minute despite shooting under 40% from the field and 25% from three, when the opposing team was 50% from the field, 60% from three, and 95% from FT with 21 attempts.

There was a lot of good that happened in this game that shows we are a different team that just executed poorly.

MPM wrote:This is the concern - that Clifford might sit a rookie out of principle as opposed to playing rookies on a case by case basis.

Cody saw regular minutes as a rookie over two journeymen vets in Adrien and Tolliver. PJ had every opportunity to play meaningful minutes and even started when MKG went down in November last season.

There has never been actual support for the view that Cliff won't play rookies.

MPM wrote:I also somewhat disagree with the impression of Winslow's usage last night. Agree to disagree perhaps. Deng, Wade, Green, Dragic, Chalmers, etc. are all vets that deserve court time, yet the Heat managed to carve out 26 minutes for Winslow. He also saw minutes before Johnson (nearly 19 mpg last year, 0 last night) and Ennis (17 mpg last year, 0 last night) showing the Spoelstra is giving his rookie significant minutes because he thinks Winslow can provide more than other, more seasoned, contributors.

Johnson is very young himself and Ennis is a D league caliber player. Neither were on an NBA roster before last season. Spencer has much more experience and, while he did struggle last season, and has been much more productive throughout his career. You can't really compare Winslow earning minutes over those guys to Frank earning minutes over Spencer.

MPM wrote:Again, I think you flip flop Kaminsky (6 minutes) and Hawes (18 minutes) last night and you see a better result while developing your more important asset. I'd be fine with 18 for Tank and 6 for Hawes for the remainder of the season. It's a minor single game criticism that may not mean anything if Frank starts to see more burn, but if it develops into a season long pattern, I'd be very disappointed.

I'd rather get a couple weeks into the season before I make that call.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#531 » by Cheeze » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:32 pm

All I can say is...thank goodness for game threads! I tell you it's the best morning-after entertainment on the net, especially for someone who's unable to watch the games (moved out of state).

Casual observation on Kaminsky - Frank is not the alpha on this team, but he's a natural alpha, a unique dude. Once his alphaness begins to express, I think we'll see why he was drafted over Winslow. And I think we'll first see it when Frank drains a three in a defender's face without doing a double-pump and realizes he belongs. He doesn't yet and that's why he only played 6 minutes last night.

Anyways...I'm looking forward to reading the next game thread.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#532 » by DY_nasty » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:03 pm

EwingSweatsALot wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:
EwingSweatsALot wrote:So we drafted a 4 year college player that could help us right now because we need shooting and playmaking and we are in win now mode.

This guy plays 6 minutes, while the guy we passed on looked really good, passed really well, didn't score but played really good D, and was a game leading +26 in 26 minutes.

I really hope we aren't adding this to our draft blunder list.

You really wanted him guarding Bosh?

:roll:


You actually think that's why he didn't play??

Not a sole person on this team can guard Bosh. Did you see our big men defend last night? Like not just Bosh, but anybody? Did you see any resistance?

It was already mentioned he was basically the 5th big man. He didn't not play because of a matchup issue. Not to mention. If they really wanted him to get some run, he could have easily managed to be out there with Zeller when Miami ran the Bosh/Haslem front court. Haslem ain't a tough cover. He coulda dealt with that.

Yeah.

He offers no rim protection and Bosh/Whiteside are nightmare matchups for him. Why put him out there just to get killed?

Doesn't make sense to play into Haslem being out there either since we could do more than just put him out there for the sake of putting him out there.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#533 » by steady » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:04 pm

Given that the Hornets’ shooting percentages were across the board so much worse than Heat last night, and given that Heat dominated in blocks (7-1), and assists (23-16), it could be seen as a good sign that Hornets got to within 5 points near end of game.

Us:  FG%  39.3 /  3PT FG%  25 / FT%  75.9
Them:  FG%  49.3 /  3PT FG%  60 / FT%  95.2

A couple of bright spots:  rebounds were actually comparable, and Hornets had more offensive rebounds (11-2).  In addition, Hornets had fewer TOs (8 to 13) and fewer fouls (16 to 25).  (Unfortunately Hornets shot so much worse at FT line that they could not turn the fouls into an advantage.)

All in all, given that players are getting used to new offensive system and each other.  Last night was actually not so bad. 

One thing that struck me is how Batum played so much better at the end of the game when he was with a faster, more ball movement oriented unit – which really plays to his strenghts.  That would be nice to see more of.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#534 » by DY_nasty » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:08 pm

If anything Zeller should've got more minutes. He played extremely well.

Also, we took more good 3s in one game than we did across entire weeks last night. I can't be mad at how we lost at all. Its Miami in Miami, we never beat them in Miami.
Dancingpanda wrote:Honestly i loved Cliff's rotation last night. He has also seemed to recognize and address our biggest problems last night. No ball movement and Lack of effort on D.

so lets give this team at lest 10 games before we write them off. I mean Cleveland looked terrible starting off last year, and then they figured it out. (although i do realize we don't have Lebron, Love, and Kyrie lol)

My only issue is how he managed Kemba through the first half. The guy was never more passive on the court. And in the 2nd? When Kemba came back into the game the entire offense turned to trash.

I dont know if that's Kemba being Kemba, growing pains of a new offense, or what, but that's gotta be addressed.

Also, Kemba got dogged by Dragic the entire game. Dude got into the paint whenever he wanted.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#535 » by predators » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:29 pm

I'm normally all for being rational, but ... the fact that we drafted a four year player because we are tired of projects yet played him 20 minutes less than the 1 year guy we passed on is kind of hilarious. (Vonleh also got more PT for Portland but didn't put up any numbers.)

I also know its the first game of the season, and he'll probably get more minutes later in the season.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#536 » by EwingSweatsALot » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:34 pm

DY_nasty wrote:
EwingSweatsALot wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:You really wanted him guarding Bosh?

:roll:


You actually think that's why he didn't play??

Not a sole person on this team can guard Bosh. Did you see our big men defend last night? Like not just Bosh, but anybody? Did you see any resistance?

It was already mentioned he was basically the 5th big man. He didn't not play because of a matchup issue. Not to mention. If they really wanted him to get some run, he could have easily managed to be out there with Zeller when Miami ran the Bosh/Haslem front court. Haslem ain't a tough cover. He coulda dealt with that.

Yeah.

He offers no rim protection and Bosh/Whiteside are nightmare matchups for him. Why put him out there just to get killed?

Doesn't make sense to play into Haslem being out there either since we could do more than just put him out there for the sake of putting him out there.


Your last paragraph makes my point. So thank you.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#537 » by DY_nasty » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:36 pm

But we almost came back from like 20 down without him soooooooooo
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#538 » by Joest2003 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:56 pm

That was a disaster. Lamb needs to hurry up and come back im not sure I can handle watching another game with PJ as the starter
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#539 » by KM6 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:58 pm

steady wrote:One thing that struck me is how Batum played so much better at the end of the game when he was with a faster, more ball movement oriented unit – which really plays to his strenghts.  That would be nice to see more of.


Could it had something to do with Batum playing his natural position at SF? And there is no Al but the more athletic Cody who can set screens, do PnR, stretch the floor and play competent defense.

In my opinion, starting unit should be Kemba, Lin, Batum, Marvin/Hawes, and Cody. Much better ball movement, good spacing, and has the potential to shoot the opponent out of the game.
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Re: GT: We're going to Miami Wed. 10/28 7:30 PM EST 

Post#540 » by DY_nasty » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:02 pm

Joest2003 wrote:That was a disaster. Lamb needs to hurry up and come back im not sure I can handle watching another game with PJ as the starter

wtf :lol:

Only thing Lamb would do is take Brian Roberts minutes from last night. And Roberts played a really good game. PJ's entire job in the starting unit was to keep defenders honest and unable to double down on Al, which got Al off to a great start, and guard Wade, which he did better than most expected. Lamb's presence wouldn't have changed anything most likely.

I'm still waiting for people here to acknowledge how bad Kemba was for 3 quarters on both sides of the ball. Or at least how he was completely passive while the early lead evaporated.

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