Bring back Kevin Martin?

[codydaze]

I have 0 faith in Ben at this point, especially after last night's game. He simply does not have the basketball IQ to make up for his inability to hit open shots. What would you guys think of bringing back Kevin Martin for him? I'm not sure how the money could work and guys that could be added as filler wouldn't be able to be traded until December but I would not be mad at a Mclemore for Martin trade at all. We lose his "potential" but I honestly just don't think it's there. The offense we gain from Martin would be much more valuable than the subpar to a-little-better-than-decent defense that Ben gives us.

What are your guys' thoughts?

[blind prophet]

We may be better off for this season offensively, but I don't think we are good enough to make a deal like this. This is something you do when you are close to a ring. Better be getting a prospect or a pick back too, which wouldn't happen or be a pick/prospect not worth much.

[benchmobbin02]

I have 0 faith in Ben at this point, especially after last night's game. He simply does not have the basketball IQ to make up for his inability to hit open shots. What would you guys think of bringing back Kevin Martin for him? I'm not sure how the money could work and guys that could be added as filler wouldn't be able to be traded until December but I would not be mad at a Mclemore for Martin trade at all. We lose his "potential" but I honestly just don't think it's there. The offense we gain from Martin would be much more valuable than the subpar to a-little-better-than-decent defense that Ben gives us.

What are your guys' thoughts?

Slow your roll, codydaze. After one game where he only got 5 shots you wanna dump him. He needs a chance to play with these smart backcourt players (Rondo and Beli) and learn. Who was teaching him the last two years, Nik, Jimmer, Thornton. Come on. Your jumping the gun here I think.

Martin is a smart but far older player that gets his point from the line because of his funky shooting motion. He was 6-15 last night and 11-12 from the line for 23pts. He is Minny's 6th man aka our Beli but the difference is he delivers points. Beli was 3-12. Yes, he had 7 ast, which is way more than I expected from him, but we needed points from him. I understand where you're coming from but think it's premature.

If you wanna be mad at someone for the lose, there are other people to single out. DMC for one. His defensive lapses late and turnovers (8 TO, fracking EIGHT) really cost the game. I mean at 1min left the sequence where he has the bad pass and TO, then the Deandre dunk and then the next possession the stalled offense and bad shot killed our chances. I hope that he takes some ownership of that being our team leader. I haven't check the press yet. I barely just got thru a dvred quick run thru of the game since I couldn't watch live.

But the main thing here is...It's only the first game. We had a very good shot at winning just some dumb mistakes down the stretch. Making that big of a change isn't warranted IMO. I think we learned a lot last night, let's see if we use the knowledge the right way.

[codydaze]

I have 0 faith in Ben at this point, especially after last night's game. He simply does not have the basketball IQ to make up for his inability to hit open shots. What would you guys think of bringing back Kevin Martin for him? I'm not sure how the money could work and guys that could be added as filler wouldn't be able to be traded until December but I would not be mad at a Mclemore for Martin trade at all. We lose his "potential" but I honestly just don't think it's there. The offense we gain from Martin would be much more valuable than the subpar to a-little-better-than-decent defense that Ben gives us.

What are your guys' thoughts?

Slow your roll, codydaze. After one game where he only got 5 shots you wanna dump him. He needs a chance to play with these smart backcourt players (Rondo and Beli) and learn. Who was teaching him the last two years, Nik, Jimmer, Thornton. Come on. Your jumping the gun here I think.

Martin is a smart but far older player that gets his point from the line because of his funky shooting motion. He was 6-15 last night and 11-12 from the line for 23pts. He is Minny's 6th man aka our Beli but the difference is he delivers points. Beli was 3-12. Yes, he had 7 ast, which is way more than I expected from him, but we needed points from him. I understand where you're coming from but think it's premature.

If you wanna be mad at someone for the lose, there are other people to single out. DMC for one. His defensive lapses late and turnovers (8 TO, fracking EIGHT) really cost the game. I mean at 1min left the sequence where he has the bad pass and TO, then the Deandre dunk and then the next possession the stalled offense and bad shot killed our chances. I hope that he takes some ownership of that being our team leader. I haven't check the press yet. I barely just got thru a dvred quick run thru of the game since I couldn't watch live.

But the main thing here is...It's only the first game. We had a very good shot at winning just some dumb mistakes down the stretch. Making that big of a change isn't warranted IMO. I think we learned a lot last night, let's see if we use the knowledge the right way.

I get your points but I'm not basing this on the fact that we lost. Win or lose I would feel the same way about him. He just doesn't have the basketball iq to where I think he will develop to where we need him to be. Like blind prophet said in the earlier post, this wouldn't get us over the hump and Martin has a limited number of years left in the tank so that would cause me to be weary of making a move unless we get some kind of asset back which we would not likely get in this scenario but I think something has to be done with him. Ben's just not there and I don't think he ever will be.

[benchmobbin02]

But my point is you're basing that on a very small sample size. One game. If you wanna go back to previous years then he didn't have the teachers then that he has the chance to learn from now.

We need to stop giving up on guys just because they don't turn into superstars in a few years. Ben has improved each year and I think he will improve again this year, especially in the areas that you are concerned with. I think his basketball IQ, playmaking and shot selection will all go up from being around, watching and learning from Karl Rondo and Beli.

Now if your argument for letting him go is that he won't progress fast enough in the next two years (time frame for DMC and Gay to win and decide to stay) and you want a veteran in his spot then I can understand that. But saying that he will never get there is harsh, I think. The Kings need to start developing guys for the long run that we drafted or we'll never be successful longterm. I think Ben needs to be a better playmaker, defender and decision maker but not a guy that is gonna take 10-15 shots a game like K.Mart will.

Realistically, a team only needs 3-4 of those volume shooting guys. We have DMC, Gay, Beli and DC. We have other good players around them that excel or have the potential to excel at other aspects of the game so they all don't need to start and we can have 2 on the floor all the time.

If we can develop Ben into a guy like Danny Green we will be looking good. He can hit open shots, makes good decisions and plays good team defense. I think that is what he has the potential to be and could be on that road with the guys around him now.

That's my opinion.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Have to wonder what Boogie will do when it's a key possession and he's looking to get the ball, and instead, Martin has one of his "it's Kmart's time to shine" moments and misses badly. Or when Martin is hopelessly late on a rotation and the opposition drains a dagger 3. Because these scenarios will definitely occur.

[Kings2013]

I wouldn't mind a change from Ben but I don't know if Martin is the answer. The starting unit really doesn't need another volume guy with Cousins and Gay, and Martin's defensive shortcomings would hurt the perimeter D. Another 3/D vet, with experience might be a better look

[Kings2013]

I have 0 faith in Ben at this point, especially after last night's game. He simply does not have the basketball IQ to make up for his inability to hit open shots. What would you guys think of bringing back Kevin Martin for him? I'm not sure how the money could work and guys that could be added as filler wouldn't be able to be traded until December but I would not be mad at a Mclemore for Martin trade at all. We lose his "potential" but I honestly just don't think it's there. The offense we gain from Martin would be much more valuable than the subpar to a-little-better-than-decent defense that Ben gives us.

What are your guys' thoughts?

Slow your roll, codydaze

Slow yours. You've been asked to curtail the overly-aggressive comments towards the other members of this board. He's allowed his thoughts without negative judgment, as is SacKingZZZ that I thought you responded a little too hastily to in another thread. This is a forum where others should be able to express their thoughts freely without some other member having the inclination to jump down their throats for something they disagree with

[codydaze]

Have to wonder what Boogie will do when it's a key possession and he's looking to get the ball, and instead, Martin has one of his "it's Kmart's time to shine" moments and misses badly. Or when Martin is hopelessly late on a rotation and the opposition drains a dagger 3. Because these scenarios will definitely occur.

You can just end games with Belinelli on the floor. In the scenario where we did get Martin, I would rather have him as 6th man anyway and start Belinelli. Marco might not be a good man defender but he plays really good team defense.

[codydaze]

I wouldn't mind a change from Ben but I don't know if Martin is the answer. The starting unit really doesn't need another volume guy with Cousins and Gay, and Martin's defensive shortcomings would hurt the perimeter D. Another 3/D vet, with experience might be a better look

Yeah, ideally I would want someone with more youth but I think KMart would be the most realistic return we could get for Ben at this time. He has two years left on his contract so he could just be a stopgap until we find something in free agency or in the draft.

[benchmobbin02]

I'll preference this by saying for the record, "I'm totally against moving Mclemore!"

Now if we did make a move, I think we'd have to do better than K.Mart. Not necessarily, a better player ranking wise but a better player fit wise.

Guys I think we'd want but not sure we'd be able to get -

Gerald Green - I love his game and his size. Makes the 3 at a good rate and defends both in the team set and on the perimeter.

Rodney Stuckey - A wily vet who does it all. A show and prove guy every year it seems but Larry Bird openly recruited him last year so he is getting some love. If the Pacers make the payoffs, he'll be a big reason why.

Guys I think we might be able to get but I'm not sure we'd want -

Terrence Ross - I don't watch enough Raptor ball to know why but I know they really don't think highly of him. Seems to have the attributes but not the stats.

Alan Anderson - He is a nice player for 10-12 mins but shouldn't be relied on for more than that. he can defend and hit open shots. Another wily vet.

[benchmobbin02]

I have 0 faith in Ben at this point, especially after last night's game. He simply does not have the basketball IQ to make up for his inability to hit open shots. What would you guys think of bringing back Kevin Martin for him? I'm not sure how the money could work and guys that could be added as filler wouldn't be able to be traded until December but I would not be mad at a Mclemore for Martin trade at all. We lose his "potential" but I honestly just don't think it's there. The offense we gain from Martin would be much more valuable than the subpar to a-little-better-than-decent defense that Ben gives us.

What are your guys' thoughts?

Slow your roll, codydaze

Slow yours. You've been asked to curtail the overly-aggressive comments towards the other members of this board. He's allowed his thoughts without negative judgment, as is SacKingZZZ that I thought you responded a little too hastily to in another thread. This is a forum where others should be able to express their thoughts freely without some other member having the inclination to jump down their throats for something they disagree with

My reply wasn't meant to be overly aggressive toward codydaze but to match the intense opinion he put forth toward Ben Mclemore. I tried to make that clear. I never said that his opinion was wrong or attacked him personally. I'm sorry if you took it that way but I'm entitled to state my thoughts just as anyone else.

[OGSactownballer]

I'll preference this by saying for the record, "I'm totally against moving Mclemore!"

Now if we did make a move, I think we'd have to do better than K.Mart. Not necessarily, a better player ranking wise but a better player fit wise.

Guys I think we'd want but not sure we'd be able to get -

Gerald Green - I love his game and his size. Makes the 3 at a good rate and defends both in the team set and on the perimeter.

Rodney Stuckey - A wily vet who does it all. A show and prove guy every year it seems but Larry Bird openly recruited him last year so he is getting some love. If the Pacers make the payoffs, he'll be a big reason why.

Guys I think we might be able to get but I'm not sure we'd want -

Terrence Ross - I don't watch enough Raptor ball to know why but I know they really don't think highly of him. Seems to have the attributes but not the stats.

Alan Anderson - He is a nice player for 10-12 mins but shouldn't be relied on for more than that. he can defend and hit open shots. Another wily vet.

Terrence Ross is what Ben is looking to be. Lots of potential but never quite gets it.

Alan Anderson is always hurt.

[benchmobbin02]

I'll preference this by saying for the record, "I'm totally against moving Mclemore!"

Now if we did make a move, I think we'd have to do better than K.Mart. Not necessarily, a better player ranking wise but a better player fit wise.

Guys I think we'd want but not sure we'd be able to get -

Gerald Green - I love his game and his size. Makes the 3 at a good rate and defends both in the team set and on the perimeter.

Rodney Stuckey - A wily vet who does it all. A show and prove guy every year it seems but Larry Bird openly recruited him last year so he is getting some love. If the Pacers make the payoffs, he'll be a big reason why.

Guys I think we might be able to get but I'm not sure we'd want -

Terrence Ross - I don't watch enough Raptor ball to know why but I know they really don't think highly of him. Seems to have the attributes but not the stats.

Alan Anderson - He is a nice player for 10-12 mins but shouldn't be relied on for more than that. he can defend and hit open shots. Another wily vet.

Terrence Ross is what Ben is looking to be. Lots of potential but never quite gets it.

Alan Anderson is always hurt.

Your right on both counts IMO. Those are parts of the reasons I listed them under "not sure we'd want them" and that we'd probably be able to get the trade done.

Terrence is just 24 and is very athletic and streaky but can score , defend and has great size for a wing at the 2 or 3 with a frame you can add weight to. His main issue if you would ask a Raptor fan would be consistency.

Alan Anderson is a good player as evidenced by the fact that he is still getting contract offers at 33yo. He rarely has mental lapses and makes sound decision on the floor. He recently had surgery to remove a bone frag from his ankle and will be out for some time but will return this season.

[codydaze]

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/12/17/10456476/kings-reportedly-interested-in-kevin-martin

Looks like we may be interested in him after all. Now I admit, when I originally made this thread I thought we would be a better defensive team so I would have to agree at this point he is an ill fit. Would rather see a guy like Thabo if we can get him cheaper now that Bazemore has been playing really well.

[teerfour+40LG]

Gimme some K-Mart.

[Nitroglycerin]

Mclemore for Martin? Well.. the Wolves gave Derrick for Mbah before. So...

[blind prophet]

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/12/17/10456476/kings-reportedly-interested-in-kevin-martin

Looks like we may be interested in him after all. Now I admit, when I originally made this thread I thought we would be a better defensive team so I would have to agree at this point he is an ill fit. Would rather see a guy like Thabo if we can get him cheaper now that Bazemore has been playing really well.

I'm not surprised at all.

No way I make this deal though, even if it sends Caron out, which is not that big of a salary offload in the first place.

The only reason I'd be remotely tempted is trying to force Karl to play a SG instead of the dual pg combo at the end of games.

If you want to fish for Thabo, I think Collison+Anderson possibly to a third team instead of McLemore is the better option. This assumes we want to go all in on Rondo and see him playing 35 mpg. We'd need to find an el cheapo pg though in case Curry isn't ready.

But if we got let's say someone like Miller back and Thabo for Collison I'd have to take a look.

[benchmobbin02]

Makes no sense for the Kings for the same reasons it didn't back when it was first broached. The article puts it best...

Martin is a scoring, injury-prone guard who doesn't play all that much defense. He doesn't help the Kings do anything they can't already do. Marco Belinelli is younger, cheaper (Martin is making $7 million this year and next), and at least can throw a pass every once in a while. Trading for Kevin Martin makes no sense for the Sacramento Kings. He doesn't fill a need.

If anything, the Kings should be focused on bringing in some athletic perimeter defenders to help shore up what is one of the NBA's weakest defenses. Scoring has not been a problem for this team, and that's really all Martin brings to the table.

[SacKingZZZ]

The question would obviously be how do you make the money part work? There would have to be other pieces involved and likely Koufos going out the other way to make it work.

Ben and Kosta for Martin and Dieng is the only thing I can see working. I doubt the Wolves do it though.

Kevin while not a great defender and who knows what impact he'd give with a reduced offensive role is a smart player who knows how to move without the ball at least.