Better team this season= Utah Jazz or Sacramento Kings?

Post #261 » by **jazzfan1971** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:32 am

Heck, Jerry Sloan hasn't even unpacked for those stays.

SacTown Kings · Post #262 » by **SacTown Kings** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:46 am

Well kings better than Lakers that's for sure, and that's all that really matters in life.

sdballer · Post #263 » by **sdballer** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:46 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:Heck, Jerry Sloan hasn't even unpacked for those stays.

He definitely stayed a while

Litany · Post #264 » by **Litany** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:14 am

sdballer wrote:
Jaylee209 wrote:it's cause when they traded for Favors we told them he sucks...they are just hating, wishing he'll be as good as cousins.

I don't think he's a jazz fan even. Just to be clear, I really like favors and think he still has potential. He's just on a different level than cuz right now

I am a jazz fan. And I love how when anyone says anything bad about Cousins they're either stupid, haters, uninformed or have an agenda. Yep the universe is against Cousins...

I just think he's a giant waste of God given talent because he can't keep his head and he gets disengaged and is so out for himself. He will have to convince me otherwise. If you have arguments against me about that I'll just refer you to Zach Lowe who says the same things about his focus.

No argument you guys make for him will change my mind. Cousins needs to do that.

Bravenewworld · Post #265 » by **Bravenewworld** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:19 am

Definitely the Kings.
The Jazz have some good starters and a few good depth players.
The Kings have better starters but not as much depth.

In this situation, at the end of the day i have to roll with the better coach. Which is obviously George Karl.
I actually took a risk with my pre-season seeding and put the Kings at 8.
Maybe its more realistic to suggest this next season, but i trust coach Karl, he knows what he is doing and if there's any coach who can come in and in the first year or two get 53 wins or so, with a slightly dysfunctional team, its him.

sdballer · Post #266 » by **sdballer** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:36 am

Lattimer wrote:
sdballer wrote:
Jaylee209 wrote:it's cause when they traded for Favors we told them he sucks...they are just hating, wishing he'll be as good as cousins.

I don't think he's a jazz fan even. Just to be clear, I really like favors and think he still has potential. He's just on a different level than cuz right now

I am a jazz fan. And I love how when anyone says anything bad about Cousins they're either stupid, haters, uninformed or have an agenda. Yep the universe is against Cousins...

No. I think you're a hater because you say things like Favors and Cousins put up similar stats. Or that Cousins is a bad defender. Or that WCS doesn't seem like a special defender. Or basically because everything you have to say about Cousins and the Kings seems to suggest that everything with their team is awful and will always remain so.

Litany · Post #267 » by **Litany** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:20 am

sdballer wrote:
Lattimer wrote:
sdballer wrote:
I don't think he's a jazz fan even. Just to be clear, I really like favors and think he still has potential. He's just on a different level than cuz right now

I am a jazz fan. And I love how when anyone says anything bad about Cousins they're either stupid, haters, uninformed or have an agenda. Yep the universe is against Cousins...

No. I think you're a hater because you say things like Favors and Cousins put up similar stats. Or that Cousins is a bad defender. Or that WCS doesn't seem like a special defender. Or basically because everything you have to say about Cousins and the Kings seems to suggest that everything with their team is awful and will always remain so.

If Favors had the usage rate the cousins had he'd put up the same pts. Cousins has always had a high usage rate.

I just don't think cousins is this elite talent and in a separate tier. Like I said I think he's really talented, but a waste of natural talent cus he can't keep his head.

You see him as a hall of famer. We'll never see eye to eye on this. Let's just let their careers pan out.

As far as wcs, who knows. I just think building around cousins, it was the wrong move for spacing and pg need when mudiay was there. Cousins cant stay with all the 4s and so you need him at center a lot. I just don't see it. I'm sorry.

stitches · Post #268 » by **stitches** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:03 am

Daddy 801 wrote:I didn't look up the stats. I'm just taking a guess. But, I assume Boogie gets more touches than Favs does. I'd be curious if that's accurate. And to see how close their stats would be assuming Favs did get as many as Boogie. If Favs isn't getting less touches than Boogie that means Boogie is even better than I thought. Dude just needs to learn how to be calm.

It's not about touches per se. It's about usage and what those players do with the possessions they use. For example, Cousins' usage last year was 34%, while Favors' usage was 24% That's pretty big difference. Cousins gets about 6 more FGA per game than Favors and 4.5 FTA more than him(lets say 2 more possessions due to FTA). Now the question becomes, whether or not Favors if given as many possessions can generate as much offense. (at his current usage Favors has higher efficiency than Cousins does at his current usage)

That's a pretty hard question to answer and the answer is probably - no. Cousins has better offensive game than Favors and most likely if given 8 more possessions a game, Favors' efficiency will drop significantly(simply because he's not good enough in the areas where those new possessions will come(jumpshots, post ups and isolations). I tried finding the stats but I can't find them for last year. If I'm not mistaken Favors was below average on spot ups and post ups and above average in isos). If I had to guess Cousins is better in all 3 and that's where a lot of the difference in possessions used comes from. Now, that's not to say Favors can't improve and gradually increase his offensive load while maintaining his high efficiency, but I'm commenting specifically about his level as of last year. (he's actually hitting the mid-range jumper and has been having much better success in the post in the first two games of this year, but that's a small sample size so I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet).

On defense I'd take Favors over almost every other PF in the league(maybe barring Ibaka, Green and Davis), so I think he has the edge there. I don't think Cousins is a bad defender but he is definitely undisciplined one and has some shocking possessions that look like sabotage of the team. His mental make up is not something I'd want on my team to be fair, but the skill, size and athleticism are undeniable. The question I guess becomes how much more you value the excess skill over the deficiency of his character. I swear I have never seen more miserable player on a basketball court. He's frowning and throwing darts of stares to anybody and anything that's on his way and in any situation - teammates, refs, coaches, opponents... I really doubt it is fun playing basketball with this type of character... which is a huge shame because I genuinely think he's a top 10 player in the league purely skill-wise.

teerfour+40LG · Post #269 » by **teerfour+40LG** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:49 am

Lattimer wrote:I didn't understand them taking WCS.

This will help you.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4a6eIq3IC8[/youtube]

NBAfan3024 · Post #270 » by **NBAfan3024** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:49 am

Cousins looking great so far

Jkam31 · Post #271 » by **Jkam31** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:55 am

Favors isn't on Cousins level don't know why this is even being argued.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Rustyman · Post #272 » by **Rustyman** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:00 am

Honestly think the Kings will end up with around 35-40 wins which may be close to the 8th seed.

Jazz are still a year away.

And I posted both these thoughts before the season started.

Hedda Gambler · Post #273 » by **Hedda Gambler** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:25 am

For this Jazz-fan, this is how it looks:

We - the Jazz fans - "know" that we are elite defensively. We also know that we were the team with the most losses by 5 points or less last year (18). If we can be just an average offensive team, we will be very hard to beat this year.

As for the Kings, I don`t know about them to comment or care. You guys love your players, we love ours. Let them fight it out for 25-30 games and then we can get back to this.

Post #274 » by **FJS** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:30 pm

I coulnd't argue vs Kings... I think they have a good coach for regular season, and they have a ton of proven talent in Cousins, Rondo, Gay and other nice pieces like Collison, Belinelli or Mclemore. Stein looks nice too.

Jazz don't have the offense power that Kings have, but their deffense is really nice. Favors look like have take a step foward in his offense. He played nice vs good deffensive players like Drummond or Noel, putting more than 20 points on them.
Hayward should be a 20 ppg player too, and Burks is a legit 15 ppg player too. Then you have Gobert who is not only blocking shots, but altering tons of shots into ugly ones which are missed.
And the dark horse is Hood. This guy have a lot of talent. Offensive and deffensive.
We have a team who is really difficult to score more than 90 points on them.

Said that, I think Snyder is a really good coach. Last year we finished with 38-44... other years with more talent we finished worse than that under Corbin.

I expected to be close.

The only thing you could be afraid as Kings perspective if chemistry issues with Rondo, Cousins or Gay. Some of them are headcases, and Gay used to be a "me first guy" when he had better players in his roster. If he accepts he is the 2nd guy, this will be ok. If he is shooting more than Cousins, then Kings will have a problem.

Stoked · Post #275 » by **Stoked** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 6:26 am

With the way the Pelicans are playing maybe the Kings and Jazz both make it lol.

As a hard core Jazz fan I will go on record as saying that Cousins is an amazingly good talent. If he ever directs his emotions better he will be even better and that's damn scary. Emotions are not bad if one can focus them and use them correctly. Cousins needs to learn that. If he does than watch out.

Favors is great defensively. Everyone raves about Gobert but Favors is the defensive key to this team. Jazz's defensive efficiency is better and opp FG% is lower with Favors on the court than Gobert (this season).

Favors is what allows Gobert to be Gobert and challenge everything. Gobert allows the wings to be aggressive. But it all comes back to Favors. He is very underrated. Plus he is averaging 20ppg after 3 games. That's great but not as good as Cousins.

Final thought; I'd love to have the Jazz, Kings, Pelicans, Suns and Wolves be the next power house teams in the west. Some insanely good players on those 5 teams. Both teams are on the rise.

83SixersRocked · Post #276 » by **83SixersRocked** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 1:13 pm

Overall, I think it'll be the Kings when it's all said and done. Utah's playing great D right now though. If they can sustain that, they'll be scary.

dautjazz · Post #277 » by **dautjazz** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 4:39 pm

83SixersRocked wrote:Overall, I think it'll be the Kings when it's all said and done. Utah's playing great D right now though. If they can sustain that, they'll be scary.

The Jazz have been the best defensive team in the NBA by a HUGE margin since the All-Star break last year. The Jazz have the best defensive so far this year, and that's without Exum who was a major part of our defense last year. This team is going to be scary next year if Exum can overcome the ACL injury.

BudTugly · Post #278 » by **BudTugly** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 5:08 pm

I hope the Kings are good just so Vlade gets the cred to stay in the league. That dude is awesome.

Ballerhogger · Post #279 » by **Ballerhogger** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 5:21 pm

After few games its pretty clear the jazz look like a better team. Hayward is playing great along with gorbert and favours

The-Power · Post #280 » by **The-Power** » Sun Nov 1, 2015 5:28 pm

Stoked wrote:Favors is great defensively. Everyone raves about Gobert but Favors is the defensive key to this team. Jazz's defensive efficiency is better and opp FG% is lower with Favors on the court than Gobert (this season).

So we should disregard an entire season of evidence and focus on a sample of three games instead? Are you serious? If so: Gobert is way better than Favors on offense. Just look at the on/off splits for ORTG and eFG%.

Which team will finish with a better record?