Jazz vs Pacers

[mikepacernation]

Anyone watching this game? This team looks bad early in the season. A mixture of bad defense an bad offense mean a looooong season..


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[mikepacernation]

When your team has 3 chuckers ( Ellis PG an Miles) you know it's not good


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[Wizop]

Better bring the girls back. Game threads may not bring wins, I'm not really superstitious, but they're easier to watch than this team. I thought the realgm guys were nuts when they said we'd be blowing up the team and trading pg in a year, but ....

Ellis signing looking like Andre Johnson. Hope he just needs to get comfortable.

[Jake0890]

Yeah, this team doesn't look so good. Really undertalented and the small ball system doesn't appear to be working. At this rate, it looks like PG will end his career in Indy just like Danny did.

anyway, I hope someone can start to do actual threads again this year. I know I've done it for, what, the past 2 seasons? but i'm far too busy to be relied on to do game threads nightly again.

[mikepacernation]

This team is lacking a true point guard still. Don't get me wrong Ghill had been playing very well but we need a true point guard to get this offense going. Id love to see hill play the 2 guard with a true point running the offense


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[mikepacernation]

An to me we need to move on from Ian an start Turner an look for a true stretch 4


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[pacers33granger]

An to me we need to move on from Ian an start Turner an look for a true stretch 4


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I think starting Ian is fine. I'd rather Turner be aggressive with the second unit like he has been. He wouldn't get the touches he's been getting with the starters. As is we seem to already have a bit of a problem with touches with the starters since Monta isn't getting going early and ends up forcing things.

[boomershadow]

We are looking a lot less like the Frank Vogel-Pacers and a lot more like the Jim O'Brien Pacers. And I'm pretty convinced it's mostly the scheme that is the problem and not the talent level.

GHill is fine as a point guard. Ian is doing great at Center. The biggest holes are at the Stretch 4 and backup point guard. I'm not entirely sure what this team's fascination is with playing people out of position. But Paul George isn't a 4. And Monta Ellis isn't a 1. CJ Miles isn't a 3-4. He's a natural 2. So of course we have him guarding power forwards. Sounds fine.

[Scoot McGroot]

We are looking a lot less like the Frank Vogel-Pacers and a lot more like the Jim O'Brien Pacers. And I'm pretty convinced it's mostly the scheme that is the problem and not the talent level.

GHill is fine as a point guard. Ian is doing great at Center. The biggest holes are at the Stretch 4 and backup point guard. I'm not entirely sure what this team's fascination is with playing people out of position. But Paul George isn't a 4. And Monta Ellis isn't a 1. CJ Miles isn't a 3-4. He's a natural 2. So of course we have him guarding power forwards. Sounds fine.

Reading the Indy Star follow up, the guys are quite open that it wasn't scheme, but purely effort that doomed the Jazz game. George Hill was quite open about that.

[8305]

Pacers lack the basketball skill, size and athletes needed to play small the way of Golden State. I know, not exactly a revelation there. And, as many feared the defense and rebounding has been a big problem. Would it be any better if you inserted a bigger more athletic wing into the mix (GRIII) and bring Monta off the bench?

[pacers33granger]

Pacers lack the basketball skill, size and athletes needed to play small the way of Golden State. I know, not exactly a revelation there. And, as many feared the defense and rebounding has been a big problem. Would it be any better if you inserted a bigger more athletic wing into the mix (GRIII) and bring Monta off the bench?

Probably not. The problem with Ellis so far seems to be that he ends up forcing things because he's not getting touches early since we also have Hill, Miles, and George usually eating shots. But that problem is just as bad if we want Turner to be aggressive off the bench and it also means more time for Stuckey/Ellis together which has been bad so far.

I've been fairly impressed with Ellis's activity on defense, but no matter what he's going to need his shots to be effective. The guy is a career 18 ppg scorer, so his whole game is going to be off when he's made 2 shots on 6 forced attempts by halftime.

This is why I'm in favor of using Solo over Bud. We have too many scorers right now. We look great in stretches and could even have a couple games where we look unstoppable, but overall it's going to be rough.

I also think we should be riding the hot hand more than we are. Too many times guys have been making shots and end up not playing for awhile because of the rotation.

[Miller4ever]

What we're seeing right now is more of a test of this team's character than this team's talent. Chemistry has a ways to go, which can be improved. Players are figuring out when to be aggressive and when to share, and when those times are for the other guys on the court. The Jazz loss was absolutely a case of early exasperation. With two days off, we'll continue to be tested against a resurgent Pistons at the Palace. I'm willing to be patient.

The change I would like to see is giving GRIII, Young, and Myles most opportunities.

[Miller4ever]

Yeah, this team doesn't look so good. Really undertalented and the small ball system doesn't appear to be working. At this rate, it looks like PG will end his career in Indy just like Danny did.

anyway, I hope someone can start to do actual threads again this year. I know I've done it for, what, the past 2 seasons? but i'm far too busy to be relied on to do game threads nightly again.

Where'd you end up going?

[8305]

Pacers lack the basketball skill, size and athletes needed to play small the way of Golden State. I know, not exactly a revelation there. And, as many feared the defense and rebounding has been a big problem. Would it be any better if you inserted a bigger more athletic wing into the mix (GRIII) and bring Monta off the bench?

Probably not. The problem with Ellis so far seems to be that he ends up forcing things because he's not getting touches early since we also have Hill, Miles, and George usually eating shots. But that problem is just as bad if we want Turner to be aggressive off the bench and it also means more time for Stuckey/Ellis together which has been bad so far.

I've been fairly impressed with Ellis's activity on defense, but no matter what he's going to need his shots to be effective. The guy is a career 18 ppg scorer, so his whole game is going to be off when he's made 2 shots on 6 forced attempts by halftime.

This is why I'm in favor of using Solo over Bud. We have too many scorers right now. We look great in stretches and could even have a couple games where we look unstoppable, but overall it's going to be rough.

I also think we should be riding the hot hand more than we are. Too many times guys have been making shots and end up not playing for awhile because of the rotation.

I'm not convinced the Ellis forced shots are the result of lack of touches as much as it is the lack of separation he's creating off the dribble. My memory when went against him was a guy who was near impossible to contain off the dribble. I haven't seen much of that so far.

For me Solo over Bud falls into the "whatever" category. Small minutes and low usage either way. Solo probably gives you a better defender but your spacing on offense would suffer.

I agree that Ellis and Stuckey together is bad. In an ideal world neither of them is a point guard in other than emergency situations.

[pacers33granger]

Pacers lack the basketball skill, size and athletes needed to play small the way of Golden State. I know, not exactly a revelation there. And, as many feared the defense and rebounding has been a big problem. Would it be any better if you inserted a bigger more athletic wing into the mix (GRIII) and bring Monta off the bench?

Probably not. The problem with Ellis so far seems to be that he ends up forcing things because he's not getting touches early since we also have Hill, Miles, and George usually eating shots. But that problem is just as bad if we want Turner to be aggressive off the bench and it also means more time for Stuckey/Ellis together which has been bad so far.

I've been fairly impressed with Ellis's activity on defense, but no matter what he's going to need his shots to be effective. The guy is a career 18 ppg scorer, so his whole game is going to be off when he's made 2 shots on 6 forced attempts by halftime.

This is why I'm in favor of using Solo over Bud. We have too many scorers right now. We look great in stretches and could even have a couple games where we look unstoppable, but overall it's going to be rough.

I also think we should be riding the hot hand more than we are. Too many times guys have been making shots and end up not playing for awhile because of the rotation.

I'm not convinced the Ellis forced shots are the result of lack of touches as much as it is the lack of separation he's creating off the dribble. My memory when went against him was a guy who was near impossible to contain off the dribble. I haven't seen much of that so far.

For me Solo over Bud falls into the "whatever" category. Small minutes and low usage either way. Solo probably gives you a better defender but your spacing on offense would suffer.

I agree that Ellis and Stuckey together is bad. In an ideal world neither of them is a point guard in other than emergency situations.

Well I think that Ellis's issues ultimately stem from not getting touches and not being involved early on. I agree he's not getting to the rim nearly as well as he could it seems, but I think that's also a result of not being that involved from the get-go. He's used to being a focal point. Stuckey has gotten to the rim fine so far and I believe that's because he has a more defined role (has a year on the team under his belt though). Ellis is starting off as seemingly the 3rd option at least and then being forced to be a playmaker with the second unit. Just not his game.

And normally I'd agree the Solo over Bud thing is whatever, but Bud has been getting a full quarter worth of minutes. Even splitting it up and giving 6 minutes to Solo could help, I mean we might as well try.

And we really haven't seen Solo as the 5th option on offense before, which is clearly his role there. Last year he was more of a featured guy due to injuries and in SL he was expected to be a focal point, which failed miserably. And really, his handle is bad, but last year he consistently attacked the rim when he had the chance, which could provide some easy opportunities for Turner, Allen, or Hill off of offensive boards. I guess I'm just more optimistic than most about what he could bring and it really doesn't hurt to try.

[pacers33granger]

What we're seeing right now is more of a test of this team's character than this team's talent. Chemistry has a ways to go, which can be improved. Players are figuring out when to be aggressive and when to share, and when those times are for the other guys on the court. The Jazz loss was absolutely a case of early exasperation. With two days off, we'll continue to be tested against a resurgent Pistons at the Palace. I'm willing to be patient.

The change I would like to see is giving GRIII, Young, and Myles most opportunities.

Yeah this is what I'd like to see the most. I think we should be much more flexible with our lineups and I thought Myles earned more minutes than he got against the Jazz.

[GrandBasterd]

What we're seeing right now is more of a test of this team's character than this team's talent. Chemistry has a ways to go, which can be improved. Players are figuring out when to be aggressive and when to share, and when those times are for the other guys on the court. The Jazz loss was absolutely a case of early exasperation. With two days off, we'll continue to be tested against a resurgent Pistons at the Palace. I'm willing to be patient.

The change I would like to see is giving GRIII, Young, and Myles most opportunities.

totally agreed. If Monta and PG started hot instead of ice cold we would be 2-1. I think we need Monta pick n rolls and hill spotting up on the three line.

And you guys are too hard on Monta. He's just not shooting well, but he is literally doing everything else. CRAZY active on D, in the Memphis game there were 2, 3 on 1 fast breaks and he drew charges on both and blocked another fast break. He's a tough guy who is giving it his all. During the Jazz game they were saying how he was being a vocal leader which is exactly what this team needs.

I think the different roles for everyone and the conditioning for playing this style may be a factor why we just blow games in the second half. It's definitely more to do with chemistry than talent.

Myles turner is gunna be a nightmare matchup for teams at the end of this season. Maybe he can be a Monta pick n roll parter

I STILL BELIEVE this will be a top team in the east by the end of the season.

[Wizop]

I think Ellis is just being a new guy trying to fit in. I wouldn't scheme for him yet. Let him learn his teammates and let them learn him.

[chube]

I wasn't able to watch the game, but purely based on the recap, I inderstand going small, but doing it against the huge front line of Gobert/Favors seems like a bad idea. You could maybe get away with that against a frontline like Brooklyn's that isn't as athletic, but the Utah frontline has athleticism to make to for tbat


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