Game Thread #3: Orlando Magic (0-2) @ Chicago Bulls (2-1) 7PM ET 11/1

[OrlandoNed]

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA 2h2 hours ago
The basketball gods punished Orlando last night for a) playing Super Mario only 5 minutes; b) not playing Harris/A. Gordon together at all.

How long until we see Harris and AG? I don't get it... Skiles said in preseason he wanted to get a good look at them together and he hasn't really done it yet. He also said he likes AG at the 3, but he's playing him mostly at the 4.

I really don't think Skiles trusts our traditional PF's yet and wants Gordon and Harris to play all of their minutes at 4. He's going to have to play them together eventually if he is going to keep Mario on a short leash and Fournier keeps on being inconsistent.

[OrlandO]

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA 2h2 hours ago
The basketball gods punished Orlando last night for a) playing Super Mario only 5 minutes; b) not playing Harris/A. Gordon together at all.

How long until we see Harris and AG? I don't get it... Skiles said in preseason he wanted to get a good look at them together and he hasn't really done it yet. He also said he likes AG at the 3, but he's playing him mostly at the 4.

I really don't think Skiles trusts our traditional PF's yet and wants Gordon and Harris to play all of their minutes at 4. He's going to have to play them together eventually if he is going to keep Mario on a short leash and Fournier keeps on being inconsistent.

I don't have a problem with AG playing the 4, I actually prefer it with our current roster... it's just not a good look when Skiles says one thing and does the complete opposite.

[OrlandoNed]

How long until we see Harris and AG? I don't get it... Skiles said in preseason he wanted to get a good look at them together and he hasn't really done it yet. He also said he likes AG at the 3, but he's playing him mostly at the 4.

I really don't think Skiles trusts our traditional PF's yet and wants Gordon and Harris to play all of their minutes at 4. He's going to have to play them together eventually if he is going to keep Mario on a short leash and Fournier keeps on being inconsistent.

I don't have a problem with AG playing the 4, I actually prefer it with our current roster... it's just not a good look when Skiles says one thing and does the complete opposite.

He said he likes him at 3, he never said how much he'd play him at 3. He probably hates Frye and Nicholson at PF more than he likes Gordon at SF.

[the_hobo]

I really don't think Skiles trusts our traditional PF's yet and wants Gordon and Harris to play all of their minutes at 4. He's going to have to play them together eventually if he is going to keep Mario on a short leash and Fournier keeps on being inconsistent.

I don't have a problem with AG playing the 4, I actually prefer it with our current roster... it's just not a good look when Skiles says one thing and does the complete opposite.

He said he likes him at 3, he never said how much he'd play him at 3. He probably hates Frye and Nicholson at PF more than he likes Gordon at SF.

Sad but true. But Nicholson should be given a chance... Especially against this vulnerable Pelicans defense coming up.

[OrlandO]

I really don't think Skiles trusts our traditional PF's yet and wants Gordon and Harris to play all of their minutes at 4. He's going to have to play them together eventually if he is going to keep Mario on a short leash and Fournier keeps on being inconsistent.

I don't have a problem with AG playing the 4, I actually prefer it with our current roster... it's just not a good look when Skiles says one thing and does the complete opposite.

He said he likes him at 3, he never said how much he'd play him at 3. He probably hates Frye and Nicholson at PF more than he likes Gordon at SF.

Nicholson's buried too far to be a factor in this. So he's basically adjusting his starting and bench rotations just because he doesn't want to try Frye as a 10-15 mpg backup PF next to a defensive-minded C in dedmon? That doesn't make much sense to me... Frye's questionable as a starter, but he can contribute against bench players, especially if paired with a defender. IIRC, Frye played well in preseason as a PF and Skiles said some good things about him. Last night he played him at C and of course it went terribly. I think it has more to do with wanting to give Dipo and Fournier massive roles. Either that or they're still worried about AG's foot. I don't know, the minutes distribution and rotations just aren't adding up imo.

[OrlandoNed]

I don't have a problem with AG playing the 4, I actually prefer it with our current roster... it's just not a good look when Skiles says one thing and does the complete opposite.

He said he likes him at 3, he never said how much he'd play him at 3. He probably hates Frye and Nicholson at PF more than he likes Gordon at SF.

Nicholson's buried too far to be a factor in this. So he's basically adjusting his starting and bench rotations just because he doesn't want to try Frye as a 10-15 mpg backup PF next to a defensive-minded C in dedmon? That doesn't make much sense to me... Frye's questionable as a starter, but he can contribute against bench players, especially if paired with a defender. IIRC, Frye played well in preseason as a PF and Skiles said some good things about him. Last night he played him at C and of course it went terribly. I think it has more to do with wanting to give Fournier a massive role. Either that or they're still worried about AG's foot. I don't know, the minutes distribution and rotations just aren't adding up imo.

I disagree with the notion that Frye at center went horribly last night. Skiles made a smart move to try and see if Frye could provide a needed offensive spark by only playing him against an offensively useless Noah. Frye didn't let Noah make much of an impact on offense.

[OrlandO]

He said he likes him at 3, he never said how much he'd play him at 3. He probably hates Frye and Nicholson at PF more than he likes Gordon at SF.

Nicholson's buried too far to be a factor in this. So he's basically adjusting his starting and bench rotations just because he doesn't want to try Frye as a 10-15 mpg backup PF next to a defensive-minded C in dedmon? That doesn't make much sense to me... Frye's questionable as a starter, but he can contribute against bench players, especially if paired with a defender. IIRC, Frye played well in preseason as a PF and Skiles said some good things about him. Last night he played him at C and of course it went terribly. I think it has more to do with wanting to give Fournier a massive role. Either that or they're still worried about AG's foot. I don't know, the minutes distribution and rotations just aren't adding up imo.

I disagree with the notion that Frye at center went horribly last night. Skiles made a smart move to try and see if Frye could provide a needed offensive spark by only playing him against an offensively useless Noah. Frye didn't let Noah make much of an impact on offense.

He wasn't bad in the 1st quarter... wasn't good either. In the 2nd quarter he gave up the lane to layups from bigs and some offensive boards.... he was bad during that stretch. He didn't make a shot in either quarter. We needed energy last night... we also needed offense. Thought we missed a good opportunity for a balanced attack with frye/dedmon.

[Destin]

I think the guys all played very uptight last night. I just hope this will not be a normal thing under Skiles. I used to play for a football coach that no matter how hard I tried.. no matter how great of a game I played, it was never good enough for him. It got me so worked up each game that I was not playing to win, I was playing to not upset coach. It really screwed with my head and I made so many mental bone headed errors because of this. That coach basically made me hate playing the game.. made me hate practice and it just took the wind out of my motivation to get any better.

I am hoping that is not the case with Scott Skiles. I have read and heard that he is a hard ass and I would hope that he realizes that he is dealing with a bunch of rookies and not vets. I'm all for discipline and constructive criticsm, but I am also for a mentor and a player's coach where the team loves playing for the coach.

[Tayswagzzz]

I think the guys all played very uptight last night. I just hope this will not be a normal thing under Skiles. I used to play for a football coach that no matter how hard I tried.. no matter how great of a game I played, it was never good enough for him. It got me so worked up each game that I was not playing to win, I was playing to not upset coach. It really screwed with my head and I made so many mental bone headed errors because of this. That coach basically made me hate playing the game.. made me hate practice and it just took the wind out of my motivation to get any better.

I am hoping that is not the case with Scott Skiles. I have read and heard that he is a hard ass and I would hope that he realizes that he is dealing with a bunch of rookies and not vets. I'm all for discipline and constructive criticsm, but I am also for a mentor and a player's coach where the team loves playing for the coach.

JV was a players coach, look how that turned out, who also turns out to not know how to ran a defense or offensive scheme. Lot of bad habits still resonating from JV's tenure with us.

LOL @ you saying they play uptight under Skiles, they basically had a macy day parade after dipo hit the 3 pt shot against OKC in the 4th quarter 3 seconds left and let westbrook dribble up the court and shoot a 3 to send us into OT.

They need to tighten up more honestly. Stop blaming Skiles.

[Last Guardian]

I don't blame him for playing Smith. He brought us back into the game. He was making his jumpers when Dipo and co were bricking layups, then made some great defensive plays. He did take some bad shots afterwards but he deserved to be playing at that point.

I don't blame Skiles for anything last night except not playing Dedmon. The logic was sound to use Frye to drag Noah away from the basket, but Frye is streaky shooter and Dedmons defense and rebounding would have been more useful. Otherwise, we lose this game because this team can't hit free throws at a decent clip and outside of Fournier and Vucevic we look like a middle school team trying to score around the basket.

[Just Plain Mark]

He said he likes him at 3, he never said how much he'd play him at 3. He probably hates Frye and Nicholson at PF more than he likes Gordon at SF.

Nicholson's buried too far to be a factor in this. So he's basically adjusting his starting and bench rotations just because he doesn't want to try Frye as a 10-15 mpg backup PF next to a defensive-minded C in dedmon? That doesn't make much sense to me... Frye's questionable as a starter, but he can contribute against bench players, especially if paired with a defender. IIRC, Frye played well in preseason as a PF and Skiles said some good things about him. Last night he played him at C and of course it went terribly. I think it has more to do with wanting to give Fournier a massive role. Either that or they're still worried about AG's foot. I don't know, the minutes distribution and rotations just aren't adding up imo.

I disagree with the notion that Frye at center went horribly last night. Skiles made a smart move to try and see if Frye could provide a needed offensive spark by only playing him against an offensively useless Noah. Frye didn't let Noah make much of an impact on offense.

Noah's not an offensive threat. He's a good passer and a decent cutter off a pick and roll, but Frye had no real defensive concerns so not letting Noah make an impact on offense is not a high bar. Frye did poorly on rotation defense and failed to hit a three. His +/- was also pretty poor.

[OrlandoNed]

Nicholson's buried too far to be a factor in this. So he's basically adjusting his starting and bench rotations just because he doesn't want to try Frye as a 10-15 mpg backup PF next to a defensive-minded C in dedmon? That doesn't make much sense to me... Frye's questionable as a starter, but he can contribute against bench players, especially if paired with a defender. IIRC, Frye played well in preseason as a PF and Skiles said some good things about him. Last night he played him at C and of course it went terribly. I think it has more to do with wanting to give Fournier a massive role. Either that or they're still worried about AG's foot. I don't know, the minutes distribution and rotations just aren't adding up imo.

I disagree with the notion that Frye at center went horribly last night. Skiles made a smart move to try and see if Frye could provide a needed offensive spark by only playing him against an offensively useless Noah. Frye didn't let Noah make much of an impact on offense.

Noah's not an offensive threat. He's a good passer and a decent cutter off a pick and roll, but Frye had no real defensive concerns so not letting Noah make an impact on offense is not a high bar. Frye did poorly on rotation defense and failed to hit a three. His +/- was also pretty poor.

Well duh. The whole reason Frye was in was because Skiles knew Noah wasn't an offensive threat. If Frye doesn't have to worry about getting scored on, all he has to do is hit shots. He didn't, so he went back to the bench.

[Orlwillbeback]

Frye let brooks lay the ball in right in front of him.

[OrlandoNed]

Frye let brooks lay the ball in right in front of him.

And did Brooks get past to get to Frye?

[NavalAviator94]

Here's my take after the 3 games.

1. We are already light years ahead of where we were. You can clearly see the beginnings of better play since Skiles has taken over. However, this team has so many bad habits and doesn't really know how to play ie team defense, making good decisions etc. That is going to take time and consistency - Let's see where they are after the All Star break.

2. We are a running team which means Frye and Nicholson don't fit.

3. I think Skiles is really looking out for Hezonja and if he could start him he would. He wants him to learn defense(which it's clear he is already doing) but also learn decision making(terrible right now with the speed of the game) with his ability to pass. His ability to stretch the floor is what this team needs in a big way. That creates so many opportunities for our guys to get to the basked and draw fouls or convert vs a clogged hole. Additionally, our bigs being able to pass out to an open shooter without a hand in their face every time. However, he also doesn't want to hurt his growth by playing him too much right now. It's clear he get's on himself to the teams detriment as Skiles has alluded to. Sitting him the other night to watch and learn is just as good and the Coach knows what's going on in his players head more so than an NBA writer.

4. Vuc is a stud and is really going to get better under Skiles. He is really being aggressive but needs the help defense which will come in time as these young players learn how to do it.

5. Gordon is a Stud. Elite 3 or 4? Personally, I think his energy off the bench is great right now and I believe ultimately he and Hezonja will man the 3/4. When that occurs is the question. If Hezonja can overcome his head and learn to play within a framework I wonder if we don't see him first at the 3 with Gordon coming off the bench first or move to the 4 with Tobias as our 6th man. Gordon is a monster around the glass(with 3 point range too) which teams will recognize. Couple that with Hezonja stretching the defense and it creates so much for Elfrid and Victor.

6. Victor is a Stud - He is essentially learning to play for the first time. He was a point guard, then a 2 guard with a bad coach. Now he is learning under a great coach. He is trying to do too much at times but no unexpected. With a better starting 5 that can stretch the defense a bit and I think you will start to see a difference in his shooting percentages. I really like his handles this year, it's clear he's worked on his ball handling skills. The rest will come.

7. Elf - Keep hitting that jump shot Elf and life will be so much easier for this team! What better coach to learn from. I expect big things from him and want to see where he and the team are after the All Star break.

It's going to take time for this team to learn these new concepts in a game environment. It will come over time, things will slow down and life will get better. I see really good things in the future for this group and like what I've seen already from Skiles and these players.

Cheers

[MagicStarwipe]

Elfrid needs to start attacking the rim more like he did last season. He just hasn't been aggressive enough so far. I like that he's taking the jumper when it presents itself though, but he can't lose that get in the paint mentality either. The foul trouble he always seems to be in lately isn't helping things either.

[cjx]

Don't worry, compeers, the Magic will end the season with 45 wins and a playoff berth, book it!

[BadMofoPimp]

As far as Deadman not playing much I think that has to do with him being lost on plays and being out of place too often. He makes up for much of the time with his athleticism but appears to me that his BBIQ is low. Fortunately, not McGee low.

[UCFJayBird]

Elfrid needs to start attacking the rim more like he did last season. He just hasn't been aggressive enough so far. I like that he's taking the jumper when it presents itself though, but he can't lose that get in the paint mentality either. The foul trouble he always seems to be in lately isn't helping things either.

Could be a result of having to expend so much energy on defense early, plus having quick defenders against him in Wall, Westbrook, and Rose.

[Patrick1978]

Here's my take after the 3 games.

1. We are already light years ahead of where we were. You can clearly see the beginnings of better play since Skiles has taken over. However, this team has so many bad habits and doesn't really know how to play ie team defense, making good decisions etc. That is going to take time and consistency - Let's see where they are after the All Star break.

2. We are a running team which means Frye and Nicholson don't fit.

3. I think Skiles is really looking out for Hezonja and if he could start him he would. He wants him to learn defense(which it's clear he is already doing) but also learn decision making(terrible right now with the speed of the game) with his ability to pass. His ability to stretch the floor is what this team needs in a big way. That creates so many opportunities for our guys to get to the basked and draw fouls or convert vs a clogged hole. Additionally, our bigs being able to pass out to an open shooter without a hand in their face every time. However, he also doesn't want to hurt his growth by playing him too much right now. It's clear he get's on himself to the teams detriment as Skiles has alluded to. Sitting him the other night to watch and learn is just as good and the Coach knows what's going on in his players head more so than an NBA writer.

4. Vuc is a stud and is really going to get better under Skiles. He is really being aggressive but needs the help defense which will come in time as these young players learn how to do it.

5. Gordon is a Stud. Elite 3 or 4? Personally, I think his energy off the bench is great right now and I believe ultimately he and Hezonja will man the 3/4. When that occurs is the question. If Hezonja can overcome his head and learn to play within a framework I wonder if we don't see him first at the 3 with Gordon coming off the bench first or move to the 4 with Tobias as our 6th man. Gordon is a monster around the glass(with 3 point range too) which teams will recognize. Couple that with Hezonja stretching the defense and it creates so much for Elfrid and Victor.

6. Victor is a Stud - He is essentially learning to play for the first time. He was a point guard, then a 2 guard with a bad coach. Now he is learning under a great coach. He is trying to do too much at times but no unexpected. With a better starting 5 that can stretch the defense a bit and I think you will start to see a difference in his shooting percentages. I really like his handles this year, it's clear he's worked on his ball handling skills. The rest will come.

7. Elf - Keep hitting that jump shot Elf and life will be so much easier for this team! What better coach to learn from. I expect big things from him and want to see where he and the team are after the All Star break.

It's going to take time for this team to learn these new concepts in a game environment. It will come over time, things will slow down and life will get better. I see really good things in the future for this group and like what I've seen already from Skiles and these players.

Cheers

Hello from romania
Your post is really Great.i like your argumentation and i share them100%.
To point 2 i think someone like Kelly olynyk would be a great fit for us as a running team.or bobby portis as he doesn t get minutes in chicago with their overloaded frontcourt.i think portis could bring a lot to the magic especially with his motor on the court.