2015-16 Italian Serie A Discussion

Moderators: kdawg32086, magik9113

User avatar
treiz
RealGM
Posts: 11,984
And1: 564
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
Location: London, England
       

Re: 2015 

Post#381 » by treiz » Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:32 pm

cgf wrote:
treiz wrote:
cgf wrote:
Pjanic is a very smooth talent to facilitate their possession and the other two bring a lot of running alongside their skill to help shelter him against the physical play that can put him off. Against a normal midfield I don't see why that trio wouldn't be very effective. I would have my doubts if they were facing a giant and physical midfield (like Pogba, Matuidi/Vidal and Matic/Xhaka/young-Xabi); if only because of how vulnerable Pjanic is to being muscled out of a game; but if they're not overpowered that trio should be pretty dang effective.


That's exactly why, you summed up the position on Pjanic and Florenzi isn't exactly the biggest guy in the world and he misses too many tackles (one of the reasons people are against him at RB), Ninja is the only one capable and yet having him sit deep is nullifying his attacking prowess and all around game.

But like you said against smaller teams it should be fine on talent alone.


Yeah, it's certainly vulnerable to bigger sides that can just overpower them in puckbattles with no De Rossi or Strootman; but the more I think about it, the more I like the fit in matches where they can get away with it. Florenzi isn't huge but the kid covers a ton of ground and puts in a ton of work. Nainggolan as you say has the strength as well as the running to shelter Pjanic; who would need to play a more pirlo like role as the metronome who their counters and attacking-movements flowed forth from, mostly hanging behind Ninja-Florenzi as they burst forward to join the front three in either pressing or attack. With Nainggolan and Florenzi having to do a lot of work coming back against the ball when pressing up the pitch fails so that Pjanic doesn't get taken advantage of defensively.

Again, I don't think it would work too well against big strong midfields that they can't just outclass, or top sides...but without Strootman and De Rossi I like it for matches that they can get away with it.


Don't get me wrong I love the energy and work of Florenzi, but unless Roma has the ball most of the time (which tends to be the case against smaller teams, not so much against the bigger teams) this works out pretty well because as you said having Pjanic be there and dominate the ball will help nullify the opponents threat since they can't score if they don't have the ball. But having Pjanic do any defensive work is a disaster waiting to happen.
User avatar
J-Mezzy
RealGM
Posts: 22,246
And1: 3,870
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Location: Orlando

Re: 2015 

Post#382 » by J-Mezzy » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:47 pm

Cuadrado woth a goal and an assist today. Leaving Chelsea seems to work for a lot of players nowadays
DD12
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,228
And1: 953
Joined: Dec 11, 2013

Re: 2015 

Post#383 » by DD12 » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:19 pm

What an idiot Pjanic is.

Also Mancini is a horrible coach really. He doesn't do anything just watch the game while Roma is coming dangerously.
DD12
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,228
And1: 953
Joined: Dec 11, 2013

Re: 2015 

Post#384 » by DD12 » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:46 pm

I need to pick if i wanna say Roma's bubble sure burst fast or that legend statement that fener sig going to look nice.

not sure which one to pick lmaoooo
User avatar
El Turco
GOTB Fantasy Basketball Ultimate 2x Champion
Posts: 55,037
And1: 22,122
Joined: Apr 11, 2007
Location: Frisco
     

Re: 2015 

Post#385 » by El Turco » Sun Nov 1, 2015 3:24 pm

figures inter would get out of slump once melo is out
TheLowlySquire wrote:Wow, Arda! Huge!


Howard Mass wrote:Arda is not a terrorist. Arda is a good person.
User avatar
treiz
RealGM
Posts: 11,984
And1: 564
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
Location: London, England
       

Re: 2015 

Post#386 » by treiz » Tue Nov 3, 2015 7:55 am

Never realised there was a Roma bubble to begin with. Inter's bubble on the other hand....
User avatar
magik9113
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 10,593
And1: 1,584
Joined: Feb 03, 2006
       

Re: 2015 

Post#387 » by magik9113 » Tue Nov 3, 2015 6:22 pm

Inter are still tied for first place
User avatar
Doormatt
RealGM
Posts: 17,438
And1: 2,013
Joined: Mar 07, 2011
   

Re: 2015 

Post#388 » by Doormatt » Wed Nov 4, 2015 1:02 am

Was one of the most unimpressive wins ive ever seen. They scored a very strange goal and then just got pressed for 60 minutes without conceding miraculously. I dont see anyway Inter are good enough to win anything, at some point their shaky defense is going to start conceding lots of goals. They just stood around on most set pieces, and we are awful at them, Handanovic saved them multiple times. Also Dzeko was pretty bad, he seems to lack confidence, his touch is usually good but he just never makes the right decision and s. It sounds strange to say but if we were running with a front 3 of Florenzi/Gervinho/Salah we probably would have scored a few, Dzeko messed up more opportunities than he created and Florenzi looked useless in the midfield for the most part.
#doorgek
User avatar
treiz
RealGM
Posts: 11,984
And1: 564
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
Location: London, England
       

Re: 2015 

Post#389 » by treiz » Wed Nov 4, 2015 2:19 am

magik9113 wrote:Inter are still tied for first place


Considering the hot start, they have cooled down a lot from the start of the season.

Especially with how uninspired their play is recently, think it might have something to do Geoffrey "second best midfielder in Serie A" Kondogbia not proving his hype so far. (Especially when you consider he's only completed more than 70 minutes only 3 times this season, pretty unacceptable considering his "status" in Serie A)
User avatar
magik9113
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 10,593
And1: 1,584
Joined: Feb 03, 2006
       

Re: 2015 

Post#390 » by magik9113 » Wed Nov 4, 2015 2:45 am

agreed but before the season started no one was picking them to finish top 2 or anything and they are tied for 1st still.

Napoli has been best this season. Their first 3 games were poor but then they got results like 5-0 v Lazio, 4-0 at Milan, 2-1 over Juve and Fiorentina. They only lost the first game of the season. If they get Rugani from Juve in January which is actually possible since Juve have 4 CBs that Allegri prefers over him, they will get even better.



In other news, Carpi have hired the coach that they fired earlier this season....does this kind of stuff happen outside of Italy? i'm not sure
DD12
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,228
And1: 953
Joined: Dec 11, 2013

Re: 2015 

Post#391 » by DD12 » Wed Nov 4, 2015 4:07 am

treiz wrote:
magik9113 wrote:Inter are still tied for first place


Considering the hot start, they have cooled down a lot from the start of the season.

Especially with how uninspired their play is recently, think it might have something to do Geoffrey "second best midfielder in Serie A" Kondogbia not proving his hype so far. (Especially when you consider he's only completed more than 70 minutes only 3 times this season, pretty unacceptable considering his "status" in Serie A)


No one gave them a shot at the first place. Now they are tied at the top of the table.

Kondogbia will be fine. It is a new league and he is pretty new to this league but we have seen "the best midfield" also. Except Pjanic, all of them just average players and never made any impact on important games. (especially when you consider the best one out of those three hasn't made impact nearly what people thought he would on here)
User avatar
treiz
RealGM
Posts: 11,984
And1: 564
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
Location: London, England
       

Re: 2015 

Post#392 » by treiz » Wed Nov 4, 2015 9:01 am

I did say considering the hot start, and you was banging on about them winning the league

I'm sure he will but I'm still waiting for it to happen and right now he's not even top 15 midfielder in Serie A, despite you jumping on the ship a bit early.

No one here said that Roma had the "best midfield" in Serie A, but a better one compared to Inter it was actually you who was saying that Inter had the best midfield trio in the league. And you say no impact and yet if that was the case they shouldn't be third & one-point behind Inter/Fiorentina. I agree with you about Ninja but he's picked it up recently, but Florenzi and DDR has performed to their expectations. In terms of Ninja-Florenzi-Pjanic, just watch the Inter-Roma game where Inter got bossed throughout the game.
User avatar
El Turco
GOTB Fantasy Basketball Ultimate 2x Champion
Posts: 55,037
And1: 22,122
Joined: Apr 11, 2007
Location: Frisco
     

Re: 2015 

Post#393 » by El Turco » Wed Nov 4, 2015 9:31 am

roma midfield dominated that game, should conclude this silly argument
TheLowlySquire wrote:Wow, Arda! Huge!


Howard Mass wrote:Arda is not a terrorist. Arda is a good person.
DD12
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,228
And1: 953
Joined: Dec 11, 2013

Re: 2015 

Post#394 » by DD12 » Wed Nov 4, 2015 8:19 pm

treiz wrote:I did say considering the hot start, and you was banging on about them winning the league

I'm sure he will but I'm still waiting for it to happen and right now he's not even top 15 midfielder in Serie A, despite you jumping on the ship a bit early.

No one here said that Roma had the "best midfield" in Serie A, but a better one compared to Inter it was actually you who was saying that Inter had the best midfield trio in the league. And you say no impact and yet if that was the case they shouldn't be third & one-point behind Inter/Fiorentina. I agree with you about Ninja but he's picked it up recently, but Florenzi and DDR has performed to their expectations. In terms of Ninja-Florenzi-Pjanic, just watch the Inter-Roma game where Inter got bossed throughout the game.


Mancini is the only thing why Inter may not be able to win for sure. Dude has no idea how to coach a team. Whenever his team is taking the lead, for some reason, he starts acting like its 85th minute and every player has to defend. That's why Roma was much better because Inter didn't even think of attacking due to idiot Mancini.
User avatar
Doormatt
RealGM
Posts: 17,438
And1: 2,013
Joined: Mar 07, 2011
   

Re: 2015 

Post#395 » by Doormatt » Wed Nov 4, 2015 11:43 pm

They didnt think of attacking because that is how Roma kills teams, you cant play an open game against us or we will kill you on the counter. It was actually a very well planned and executed game from Mancini, Inter did a good job of defending and didnt give us the open space that we needed to break the game open. There is no other way to play against Roma in Serie A, with or without a lead, you either sit back and defend and wait for our defense to make a mistake (which it probably will), or you plan an open game and get killed by our pace and passing. Not even Juve try to play an open game against us in the past few years, they know its smarter to sit back and defend because we often lack the creativity to unlock a compact defense.
#doorgek
User avatar
treiz
RealGM
Posts: 11,984
And1: 564
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
Location: London, England
       

Re: 2015 

Post#396 » by treiz » Thu Nov 5, 2015 1:44 am

DD12 wrote:
treiz wrote:I did say considering the hot start, and you was banging on about them winning the league

I'm sure he will but I'm still waiting for it to happen and right now he's not even top 15 midfielder in Serie A, despite you jumping on the ship a bit early.

No one here said that Roma had the "best midfield" in Serie A, but a better one compared to Inter it was actually you who was saying that Inter had the best midfield trio in the league. And you say no impact and yet if that was the case they shouldn't be third & one-point behind Inter/Fiorentina. I agree with you about Ninja but he's picked it up recently, but Florenzi and DDR has performed to their expectations. In terms of Ninja-Florenzi-Pjanic, just watch the Inter-Roma game where Inter got bossed throughout the game.


Mancini is the only thing why Inter may not be able to win for sure. Dude has no idea how to coach a team. Whenever his team is taking the lead, for some reason, he starts acting like its 85th minute and every player has to defend. That's why Roma was much better because Inter didn't even think of attacking due to idiot Mancini.


It wasn't because they didn't want to attack it's because they couldn't attack. One of Roma's strengths is their ability to counter so swiftly and efficiently and having a midfield of Pjanic-Florenzi-Ninja is more technically proficient and more physical than what Mancini brought out in Guarin-Medel-Brozovic, with Ninja-Florenzi covering so much ground and Guarin tried but he can only do so much. Medel is more of a brute than a guy with energy and Brozovic simply couldn't keep up and because of all this (hence Kondogbia coming on at 50 minutes), Mancini had to make sure his midfield was always protecting it's defence, making sure that there's always somebody in front of the back four which limited their attack and to be fair to the guy it worked and Inter won.
DD12
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,228
And1: 953
Joined: Dec 11, 2013

Re: 2015 

Post#397 » by DD12 » Thu Nov 5, 2015 1:49 am

Doormatt wrote:They didnt think of attacking because that is how Roma kills teams, you cant play an open game against us or we will kill you on the counter. It was actually a very well planned and executed game from Mancini, Inter did a good job of defending and didnt give us the open space that we needed to break the game open. There is no other way to play against Roma in Serie A, with or without a lead, you either sit back and defend and wait for our defense to make a mistake (which it probably will), or you plan an open game and get killed by our pace and passing. Not even Juve try to play an open game against us in the past few years, they know its smarter to sit back and defend because we often lack the creativity to unlock a compact defense.


I think you didn't watch the game. Until Medel's goal, Inter played very good football with an open game. As soon as Inter scored, Mancini probably told them to stop attacking and start defending. I am sure this was the case because Mancini coached Galatasaray and it was like this pretty much every single game even if we were playing against mediocre Turkish team at our stadium. This is his strategy. Whenever he has the lead, he starts defending the lead without forgetting to score another goal/goals.

With your logic, you guys should kill Barcelona then. For sure, they won't sit deep and look for a counter. They will go full attack as usual which is based on your thoughts is a good thing for Roma and that's how you guys kill opponents. So let's see what Roma will do against Barcelona.

Roma is a good team however far from a deadly team. Yes counters are dangerous but if a team press well and players know what to do, you can beat Roma easily. Best defense is a great offense.
DD12
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,228
And1: 953
Joined: Dec 11, 2013

Re: 2015 

Post#398 » by DD12 » Sun Nov 8, 2015 4:24 pm

Inter beat Torino in Turin. Very important win. And Kondogbia scored his first goal in the season.
User avatar
Doormatt
RealGM
Posts: 17,438
And1: 2,013
Joined: Mar 07, 2011
   

Re: 2015 

Post#399 » by Doormatt » Mon Nov 9, 2015 9:08 pm

DD12 wrote:
Doormatt wrote:They didnt think of attacking because that is how Roma kills teams, you cant play an open game against us or we will kill you on the counter. It was actually a very well planned and executed game from Mancini, Inter did a good job of defending and didnt give us the open space that we needed to break the game open. There is no other way to play against Roma in Serie A, with or without a lead, you either sit back and defend and wait for our defense to make a mistake (which it probably will), or you plan an open game and get killed by our pace and passing. Not even Juve try to play an open game against us in the past few years, they know its smarter to sit back and defend because we often lack the creativity to unlock a compact defense.


I think you didn't watch the game. Until Medel's goal, Inter played very good football with an open game. As soon as Inter scored, Mancini probably told them to stop attacking and start defending. I am sure this was the case because Mancini coached Galatasaray and it was like this pretty much every single game even if we were playing against mediocre Turkish team at our stadium. This is his strategy. Whenever he has the lead, he starts defending the lead without forgetting to score another goal/goals.

With your logic, you guys should kill Barcelona then. For sure, they won't sit deep and look for a counter. They will go full attack as usual which is based on your thoughts is a good thing for Roma and that's how you guys kill opponents. So let's see what Roma will do against Barcelona.

Roma is a good team however far from a deadly team. Yes counters are dangerous but if a team press well and players know what to do, you can beat Roma easily. Best defense is a great offense.


You can't apply the same logic to Barcelona because they are simply much more talented than us, and it is harder for us to both gain possession and keep it. Against a team like inter where our midfield is as at worst even, then we can use our regular tactics. Last time we played Barca we changed our tactics and played on the counter instead of playing the possessions game. When we tried to play our usual tactics against a more talented team we got obliterated by Bayern, thankfully Rudi learned his lesson from that game. Even then though teams that play high lines against us our just asking to be punished, I don't think our offense has ever been in question, i believe we have the best attack in italy right now, its just our defense that is suspect.
#doorgek
User avatar
magik9113
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 10,593
And1: 1,584
Joined: Feb 03, 2006
       

Re: 2015 

Post#400 » by magik9113 » Mon Nov 9, 2015 11:10 pm

Samp fire Zenga and hire Montella. They just got a whole lot better

Return to The General Soccer Board