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A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us)

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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#301 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:48 pm

Net Sentence wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
49 TS% from antohony. thats horrible


If Joe Johnson averaged 21.4ppg the Nets would be at the worst be 3-4 or 4-3 and panic wouldn't be setting in. It's kind of dishonest to even put the two players in the same conversation because at least Melo for his poor efficiency is a factor out there, Johnson is beyond horrible and isn't even starter level anymore.


You are kind of missing the point. We arent defending Joe, we are refuting your point about Melo. The grass isnt greener on the other side. Melo needs 19 shots to get 21 points. He is still getting star treatment with the FTAs in order to get his. That isnt going to last long if he keeps playing like sht.


Joe needs 11 shots just to barely reach 10. That's putrid
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#302 » by Prokorov » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:10 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Net Sentence wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
If Joe Johnson averaged 21.4ppg the Nets would be at the worst be 3-4 or 4-3 and panic wouldn't be setting in. It's kind of dishonest to even put the two players in the same conversation because at least Melo for his poor efficiency is a factor out there, Johnson is beyond horrible and isn't even starter level anymore.


You are kind of missing the point. We arent defending Joe, we are refuting your point about Melo. The grass isnt greener on the other side. Melo needs 19 shots to get 21 points. He is still getting star treatment with the FTAs in order to get his. That isnt going to last long if he keeps playing like sht.


Joe needs 11 shots just to barely reach 10. That's putrid


11 shots to get 10 points is basically the same as 19 shots to get 21 points. both are putrid. which was his point
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#303 » by Net Sentence » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:16 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Net Sentence wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
If Joe Johnson averaged 21.4ppg the Nets would be at the worst be 3-4 or 4-3 and panic wouldn't be setting in. It's kind of dishonest to even put the two players in the same conversation because at least Melo for his poor efficiency is a factor out there, Johnson is beyond horrible and isn't even starter level anymore.


You are kind of missing the point. We arent defending Joe, we are refuting your point about Melo. The grass isnt greener on the other side. Melo needs 19 shots to get 21 points. He is still getting star treatment with the FTAs in order to get his. That isnt going to last long if he keeps playing like sht.


Joe needs 11 shots just to barely reach 10. That's putrid


Think about how you would feel if he doubled that and had 3 years left on his contract.

It is putrid. I loved Joe's time here but he is washed up now and shouldnt be starting.

But Melo is going down that same path. Melo has never been much of a player outside of his scoring. Porzingas looks like a really good player but that's all they got.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#304 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:09 pm

Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Net Sentence wrote:
You are kind of missing the point. We arent defending Joe, we are refuting your point about Melo. The grass isnt greener on the other side. Melo needs 19 shots to get 21 points. He is still getting star treatment with the FTAs in order to get his. That isnt going to last long if he keeps playing like sht.


Joe needs 11 shots just to barely reach 10. That's putrid


11 shots to get 10 points is basically the same as 19 shots to get 21 points. both are putrid. which was his point


I'll take 19 attempts from Melo and 7 FTAs instead of 2-11 shooting from Joe and zero FTs, added with Jack's inefficient chucking. Melo's worst day is Johnson's best for christ's sake
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#305 » by Prokorov » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:12 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Joe needs 11 shots just to barely reach 10. That's putrid


11 shots to get 10 points is basically the same as 19 shots to get 21 points. both are putrid. which was his point


I'll take 19 attempts from Melo and 7 FTAs instead of 2-11 shooting from Joe and zero FTs, added with Jack's inefficient chucking. Melo's worst day is Johnson's best for christ's sake


and melo's best days woulds till have us at 0-7
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#306 » by Zachbretton » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:14 pm

I know that we moved on from Bobby Marks, I just feel that the smarter move would've been let this contract finish out with King and hire Marks.

Marks has basically been killing it in the public eye, being a cap and GM master on Twitter, podcasts and interviews.

He had been with this team forever, is a real Nets guy and know his ****.

I think if we brought him back after this season, that we be a smart idea.

Basically, I just want to move on from King come season's end


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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#307 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:14 pm

Lopez/Melo would not be an 0-7 combo, this is now getting ridiculous.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#308 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:15 pm

Zachbretton wrote:I know that we moved on from Bobby Marks, I just feel that the smarter move would've been let this contract finish out with King and hire Marks.

Marks has basically been killing it in the public eye, being a cap and GM master on Twitter, podcasts and interviews.

He had been with this team forever, is a real Nets guy and know his ****.

I think if we brought him back after this season, that we be a smart idea.

Basically, I just want to move on from King come season's end


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The same Bobby Marks who was with Billy King when he traded a 1st rd lotto pick for Gerald Wallace?
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#309 » by Zachbretton » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:26 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Zachbretton wrote:I know that we moved on from Bobby Marks, I just feel that the smarter move would've been let this contract finish out with King and hire Marks.

Marks has basically been killing it in the public eye, being a cap and GM master on Twitter, podcasts and interviews.

He had been with this team forever, is a real Nets guy and know his ****.

I think if we brought him back after this season, that we be a smart idea.

Basically, I just want to move on from King come season's end


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The same Bobby Marks who was with Billy King when he traded a 1st rd lotto pick for Gerald Wallace?


I mean yes, but we don't know what role he had in making said trade. Him being an assistant, could've had a core say (in which case, no I don't stand behind that) or none at all.

I'm just saying, if we got Marks it wouldn't be a complete reset, as he knows the players, organization, etc.

So he can just change the directions and not have to strip things down.

A new GM could, and probably come in and may complete shift everything (which inherently isn't good or bad, I just feel we have a small window to fix things)


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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#310 » by King_Supreme » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:40 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
King_Supreme wrote:@MrDollarBills
Unless the Nets are title contenders, the city won't care about you guys, plus the team is going to be bad anyway. Hell the Nets have been in Brooklyn for four seasons, and have been relevant for two of them(2012-2013 was because the start of a stadium, and 2013-4014 was because of the KG/PP trade). Trying to sell New Yorkers fake hope off Brandon Jennings and fodder will do little to affect ticket sales.

Trading Brook will allow you to recoup some cheap young talent. Second rounders aren't that easy to acquire anymore, especially since you don't have many tradeable players. Before you say late 1sts/2nd rounders don't have value, Jimmy Butler; Gobert, Draymond, KJ McDaniels, Festus Ezili, and Khris Middleton were all picked late in the 1st round/2nd round over the past 3-4 drafts.

I'm not saying you get an All-Star out of late picks, but if you get a starter/sixth man out of one of those picks, than you can consider the late picks you get from 2017-2018 a success. Brook is a skilled player,but he's not going to lead to an abundance of wins, might as well ship him for the highest bidder this summer. Given the cap increase, at least three teams would be legitimately interested in Brook(NOP; Pacers, Knicks), maybe even 5. If by 2020, the Nets have a legit starter(late picks) and a high upside young talent(tanking for the 2019-2020 drafts) both on rookie contracts, then things will be looking up especially if they have ample cap space.


I'm not disagreeing with most of what you are saying but you lost me with trading for lottery protected picks. Yes you can find late round value in the 1st but it is far few in between and not ideal for rebuilding.


If Indiana offered you a 2017 top 7 protected pick(which is discussed to be good with Thon; Jackson, Giles, Ayton, etc) and a few seconds for Brook, would you consider it?


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My thing is that the Nets will be garbage for the next 3-5 years, so you might as well try get as many picks as you can. For arguments sake, let's say you trade for Rubio, you're still going to be bad(maybe a 30 win team). Signing Conley would help, however Memphis seems committed to being a treadmill team, so they'll probably max him. The young RFAs that I've seen suggested(Barnes, Fournier), are going to be courted by other teams with about as much or more cap space than ya'll. I'm not even a Knicks fan who hates the Nets(Heat fan), just trying to say that the team might as well own the awfulness and embrace a long term rebuild.
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Re: RE: Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#311 » by Paradise » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:41 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Lopez/Melo would not be an 0-7 combo, this is now getting ridiculous.

We're 0-7 because we currently are on pace to be the worst three point shooting team in history.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#312 » by jbeachboy » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:13 pm

king acknowledged he has been making exploratory trade talks and he doesnt have a contract extension. he is going to have to pull off some trade moves or moves to save his job.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#313 » by NyCeEvO » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:36 pm

jbeachboy wrote:king acknowledged he has been making exploratory trade talks and he doesnt have a contract extension. he is going to have to pull off some trade moves or moves to save his job.


I'll be watching his moves like:
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And when he's done I'll be like:
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#314 » by NyCeEvO » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:03 am

Zachbretton wrote:I know that we moved on from Bobby Marks, I just feel that the smarter move would've been let this contract finish out with King and hire Marks.

Marks has basically been killing it in the public eye, being a cap and GM master on Twitter, podcasts and interviews.

He had been with this team forever, is a real Nets guy and know his ****.

I think if we brought him back after this season, that we be a smart idea.

Basically, I just want to move on from King come season's end


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This just goes to show how inept the Nets are.

The guy we fired is actually very knowledgeable and likable. Go figure that the Nets would let him go but keep King.

Remember the smear campaign that was put on Marks and they tried to tie him to the Pierce/Garnett trade as if he as the capologist was the one who truly endorsed blowing the cap up and risking us going into the repeater tax.

And if we didn't go into luxury tax, King wouldn't have needed to cut D-Will. He could've just bought him out or traded him for an expiring and crap fillers. Instead, we're stuck with his contract in $5mil increments on our cap for the next 5 seasons.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#315 » by Hello Brooklyn » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:23 am

Net Sentence wrote:
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Net Sentence wrote:
Being an adult and being the boss are two very different things. Prokorov is a young billionaire with a very big ego who got where he is by taking chances on the level you and I will never know. The guy is good at just about everything he does. He makes John Travolta character in Swordfish look like a chump for gods sake. He wasnt trying to hear the slow and steady approach. He was already spending a ton in luxury tax so what were another couple of draft picks if he thought this move would make us a legit contender. He was all in.

Ive said it before, getting Johnson wasnt about 2015, it was about 2012-13 and 2013-14. Of course we needed to give them a draft pick. People act like he was playing as poorly as he is now. His final year in Atlanta was great. No one might have traded for that contract but no one on Joe's level were available either. Joe was the same age Horford will be this off season yet I see his name floated often as a free agent target. A first round pick is not a lot to pay for Joe's level of production if that is all that was available and money wasnt an issue.


Youre completely underplaying how important the Wallace deal was. It essentially ensured we were not going to be a contender because it closed the door on Dwight. Worst deal I have ever seen.

Even if ownership was pushing King to get KG, the deal was still way too much. Most superstars get traded for less then we did for KG. I think the Atlanta deals and Celtic deals would have been fine if not for the pick swaps. You can give up those picks but throwing in those pick swaps every other year was the worst move by far.

So overall I blame King for

-The Wallace deal

-Including pick swaps in the Atlanta and Boston deals.

And I think those are 2/3 main reasons were in the situation we are in today right now. The third is Deron Williams being a complete bust. And I blame him more than King by far.


Is this how you rationalize things?

For one, Dwight is the reason Dwight isnt here. He Closed the door and the window God opened. King did everything in his power to bring Dwight to the Nets. So please dont recreate history to fit your narative.

The Wallace deal was bad but it was just one move. It's importance is overstated by just about every anti-King Nets fan. Repeat after me, "THE NETS WERE NOT GOING TO DRAFT DAMIAN LILLARD." Take off your revisionist goggles. People like to ignore the fact the Nets werent drafting Lillard or Drumond if we kept that pick since those positions were already filled. Please dont try saying we traded the chance to take Davis either because of the predetermined outcome you came up with that the Nets would have finished with the exact record to win the draft lottery. King was right about that draft not being very good when you consider the Nets needs. Every draft is going to have a certain number of players who turn out to be good but 2012 has a much higher bust % then any of the most recent drafts.

Just because you make good deals in your fantasy league doesnt qualify you to say that you could have made better deals than King did. I would love to hear your pitch when you are talking other GMs into take on 4 and 5 non NBA level talents for your best player. You act as if you would have just named your price. Just because no other team was willing to trade for Joe's contract doesnt mean Atlanta had to trade him. The other option was to simply decline any offer we made that they werent willing to accept.

There is something called opportunity cost you should research. It's an investment term. Every roster spot in the NBA has tremendous value. We sent them Jordan Farmar (Out of the NBA), Johan Petro (Out of the NBA), Jordan Williams (Out of the NBA), Deshawn Stevenson (Out of the NBA) and Anthony Morrow. King wasnt even willing to include Marshon Brooks in the trade because at the time he was still considered a good prospect. We tied up a 3rd of their available roster spots while at the same time opening those spots up for us to then sign players. All for the cost of Houston'a lottery protected draft pick and a couple of potential 1st round draft swaps that are likely not going to be exercised since you just tied up 5 dead spots on the Hawks roster. It took an exceptional job by Danny Ferry to bring the Hawks to a level of respectability. You can look back now with the advantage of hindsight but Korver and Milsap signed in Atlanta because they werent highly thought of. The only decent NBA player the Hawks had at the time of the trade was Horford.

DWill is squarely to blame for Kings failures on the Nets. Show me your posts where you said DWill sucked when we traded for him or resigned him. Because if you didnt say it then then you cant say I told you so now. DWill was unquestionably a top 10 player and Im not firing King because he went after and got us him.


Yes its mostly Dwight's fault. But King put us in a terrible position to get him. That's just a fact. If we don't make the Wallace deal we keep our pick and the Magic have much more of an incentive to trade with us. Or we have a tremendous asset to make a deal for someone else.I'm not recreating history. This is agreed on by 90% of Nets fans, that the Wallace deal ruined our chances of getting Dwight.

So what if the Wallace deal was "one move." It had a huge impact on the future of this team. The Celtics deal was also one move, and it took away our pick for the next five years. And I never said we would draft Lillard. But without Wallace we probably would have lost more games. And even if we didn't we almost certainly would have included that pick in a trade for someone else. Or we would have drafted someone like Harrison Barnes and traded them mid-season. Either way it was a move that **** us big time. King may have been right about the draft, but Wallace sucked. And there no justification for trading for him.

I never said I could be a GM. But youre a moron if you don't think the Nets are the most poorly managed franchise in the NBA. This is universally agreed on by the media and fans of other teams. Take off your homer glasses for a second. Atlanta was definitely going to trade Johnson. And based on other trades of similar value the picks swaps were stupid. Who includes pick swaps in deals? You almost never see that in the NBA.

King essentially circumvented the Stepihen rule by using pick swaps instead. He created an inability for us to acquire young talent for years on end. I would way rather send Marshon Brooks then all those pick swaps. It was a terrible, terrible move. Atlanta wanted to dump JJ's contract. Remember when we traded Vince Carter and got NO PICKS. Its the same concept.

Yes D Will bears the most blame. But King took way too many stupid risks and hampered our flexibility with his pick swaps and the Wallace deal. That much is clear.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#316 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:57 am

NyCeEvO wrote:
Zachbretton wrote:I know that we moved on from Bobby Marks, I just feel that the smarter move would've been let this contract finish out with King and hire Marks.

Marks has basically been killing it in the public eye, being a cap and GM master on Twitter, podcasts and interviews.

He had been with this team forever, is a real Nets guy and know his ****.

I think if we brought him back after this season, that we be a smart idea.

Basically, I just want to move on from King come season's end


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This just goes to show how inept the Nets are.

The guy we fired is actually very knowledgeable and likable. Go figure that the Nets would let him go but keep King.

Remember the smear campaign that was put on Marks and they tried to tie him to the Pierce/Garnett trade as if he as the capologist was the one who truly endorsed blowing the cap up and risking us going into the repeater tax.

And if we didn't go into luxury tax, King wouldn't have needed to cut D-Will. He could've just bought him out or traded him for an expiring and crap fillers. Instead, we're stuck with his contract in $5mil increments on our cap for the next 5 seasons.


They also, via their mouthpiece Bob Windrem, tried to lay blame on the Gerald Wallace trade at Deron's feet instead of Billy

Windrem has now been backtracking like crazy and is now taking the Russians and KIng to task, he must know something. It will be amusing to see how things to once King is done.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#317 » by jbeachboy » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:28 am

i blame dwill for underachieving and having the franchise make stupid moves just to please him and then playing like garbage.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#318 » by NyCeEvO » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:28 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
Zachbretton wrote:I know that we moved on from Bobby Marks, I just feel that the smarter move would've been let this contract finish out with King and hire Marks.

Marks has basically been killing it in the public eye, being a cap and GM master on Twitter, podcasts and interviews.

He had been with this team forever, is a real Nets guy and know his ****.

I think if we brought him back after this season, that we be a smart idea.

Basically, I just want to move on from King come season's end


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This just goes to show how inept the Nets are.

The guy we fired is actually very knowledgeable and likable. Go figure that the Nets would let him go but keep King.

Remember the smear campaign that was put on Marks and they tried to tie him to the Pierce/Garnett trade as if he as the capologist was the one who truly endorsed blowing the cap up and risking us going into the repeater tax.

And if we didn't go into luxury tax, King wouldn't have needed to cut D-Will. He could've just bought him out or traded him for an expiring and crap fillers. Instead, we're stuck with his contract in $5mil increments on our cap for the next 5 seasons.


They also, via their mouthpiece Bob Windrem, tried to lay blame on the Gerald Wallace trade at Deron's feet instead of Billy

Windrem has now been backtracking like crazy and is now taking the Russians and KIng to task, he must know something. It will be amusing to see how things to once King is done.

Reading someone else's name next to the GM title might make cry out of sheer joy.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#319 » by Net Sentence » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:17 pm

Hello Brooklyn wrote:Yes its mostly Dwight's fault. But King put us in a terrible position to get him. That's just a fact. If we don't make the Wallace deal we keep our pick and the Magic have much more of an incentive to trade with us. Or we have a tremendous asset to make a deal for someone else.I'm not recreating history. This is agreed on by 90% of Nets fans, that the Wallace deal ruined our chances of getting Dwight.


The Dwight deal was done. DWight is the one who opted out of it, not the Magic.

Hello Brooklyn wrote:So what if the Wallace deal was "one move." It had a huge impact on the future of this team. The Celtics deal was also one move, and it took away our pick for the next five years. And I never said we would draft Lillard. But without Wallace we probably would have lost more games. And even if we didn't we almost certainly would have included that pick in a trade for someone else. Or we would have drafted someone like Harrison Barnes and traded them mid-season. Either way it was a move that **** us big time. King may have been right about the draft, but Wallace sucked. And there no justification for trading for him.


Barnes wasnt on Kings list. It was going to be Zeller or Henson.

Nets had a worst winning % after the trade. Statistically, we would have had a worst pick if we didnt trade.

We also almost certainly lose DWill if we stand pat.

It was a bad move as is and it would have ended poorly if we didnt make it. Wallace sucked but so did Zeller and Henson.

Hello Brooklyn wrote:I never said I could be a GM. But youre a moron if you don't think the Nets are the most poorly managed franchise in the NBA. This is universally agreed on by the media and fans of other teams. Take off your homer glasses for a second. Atlanta was definitely going to trade Johnson. And based on other trades of similar value the picks swaps were stupid. Who includes pick swaps in deals? You almost never see that in the NBA.

King essentially circumvented the Stepihen rule by using pick swaps instead. He created an inability for us to acquire young talent for years on end. I would way rather send Marshon Brooks then all those pick swaps. It was a terrible, terrible move. Atlanta wanted to dump JJ's contract. Remember when we traded Vince Carter and got NO PICKS. Its the same concept.

Yes D Will bears the most blame. But King took way too many stupid risks and hampered our flexibility with his pick swaps and the Wallace deal. That much is clear.


No, the Nets have poor ownership. King isnt at the top of mountain of management. He is an employee who was given directives by non basketball people.

Atlanta definitely wasnt going to trade Joe since no other team could afford him. You like to say what you would have done after the fact but once again, where is your post saying that you would have given them Marshon over picks?

Do you sell used cars? You use horrible sales techniques when posting. The underlined portions are what they call putting people in the majority. So if I dont agree with what 90% of Net fans say what does that mean? Did you take a survey to get that number? Did you get appointed by the fan base to speak for them? You are a smart guy you know this is a good deal.
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Re: A petition for the firing Billy King (please help us) 

Post#320 » by NyCeEvO » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:12 pm

The Dwight deal was done? I don't remember reading anything that said the Magic agreed to the trade in principle.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the Magic talked to Dwight and told him to reconsider his trade request and to sleep on it. I don't think they agreed to a trade and then Dwight said "No, don't do it."

The Magic never wanted to give him up and spent all of their time convincing him that there's no need to ask out.

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