Suns need to stop neglecting to develop their young players

[Revived]

Man, Booker has to be straight jealous of fellow lottery pick rookie Justice Winslow. Dude gets to play monstrous minutes AND play for a winning team.

[thamadkant]

Karl Anthony Towns looks like the next Tim Duncan.
Andrew Wiggins looks like he will be a 20+ ppg, Dominique Wilkins v2.0


Suns should be aiming to get someone similar via "strategic draft positioning" or via trades that are true franchise players and giving them proper minutes.

Andrew Wiggins looked like Archie Goodwin, the way they were clanking shots and turning the ball over in their first 20 games... but Wolves persisted to let him "learn" on the court....
Goodwin and Lavine also faced each other and looked evenly matched... but Lavine getting HUGE minutes lately has made him jumped leaps and bounds.

Len was projected to be better than Gobert, yet Gobert was allowed to make mistakes and play to his strenghts... now a DPOY material.... Len in the other hand has shown great advance stats numbers, but is having his development restricted by inconsistent minutes and primarily role as a reserve to Chandler.

Suns are primarily developing Warren as an off-the ball microwave scorer... when this guy could be a 20ppg as a top 3 scoring option. Goodwin looked good in his rookie year and showed glimpses that he could be a steal.... Len getting 25 minutes a game was a good direction until they moved him back to the bench.

I UNDERSTAND, that Hornacek and McD are pressured to make the playoffs rather than develop players to their full potential. Its not black and white, its a complicated process. Winning culture and playoff appearance is important.... but so is on court minutes.

It is what it is.... but its depressing to see that Wolves could leap frog the Suns next season with 2 All-Stars in Wiggins and Towns, and an emerging Lavine, when they both started "rebuilding" the same time.

I understand the Suns fan community here is split... but the optimistic Suns fans should accept or atleast try to see it from the frustrated Suns fans' point of view also. Not every fan will have the same vision for this team, contrasting opinions make the discussion more interesting, rather see that than a circle-jerk of either optimistic or pessimistic Suns fans dominating the forums.

[letsgosuns]

In the 1996 NBA draft, the Lakers traded Vlade Divac for the 13th pick in the draft and selected a 17 year old Kobe Bryant directly out of high school. Even with a veteran filled roster including Shaquille O'Neal, the team still managed to play Kobe 15.5 mpg. The team won 56 games and reached the semi-finals. Kobe averaged 7.6 points, 1.9 rebounds, and 1.3 ast on 41.7% fg. Those are not eye popping numbers for a rookie. The point is that that team was trying to win a championship and still played an 18 year old kid out of high school meaningful minutes. And it is not like Kobe was the first pick. He was picked at the end of the lottery and the Lakers had veteran guards ahead of him.

Now I look at what the Suns have done with their rookies. Their rookies are being blocked or losing minutes to players that frankly I do not even think deserve to be in the NBA. Sonny Weems? P.J. Tucker? Are you kidding me. These guys are garbage players. It boggles my mind that a player like Goodwin with so much athleticism is not given consistent playing. And everyone in Arizona knows Booker should be playing. Throw these guys into the game already. And not for two minutes. For fifteen minutes a game. EVERY GAME. I do not care if they screw up. How else will they get better. You think players like Weems and Tucker are going to improve your team. Give me a break.

Newsflash Hornacek. Your team is incredibly unlikable. Fans do not like to watch Weems and Tucker brick shots, or even Knight brick shots and turn the ball over. Play the guys you drafted. You know, the kids with actual potential that might make the team good again one day. As of right now, you are under .500 and you cannot beat good teams. Just like last year. No one in your starting lineup is an all star. So maybe the logical thing is to realize what you have been doing is not working. So play the young players. And before anybody says oh Goodwin and Booker are not ready and Kobe had far more talent than them, ask yourself this question. How do you know? Those guys are not even given a chance.

[JMac1]

In the 1996 NBA draft, the Lakers traded Vlade Divac for the 13th pick in the draft and selected a 17 year old Kobe Bryant directly out of high school. Even with a veteran filled roster including Shaquille O'Neal, the team still managed to play Kobe 15.5 mpg. The team won 56 games and reached the semi-finals. Kobe averaged 7.6 points, 1.9 rebounds, and 1.3 ast on 41.7% fg. Those are not eye popping numbers for a rookie. The point is that that team was trying to win a championship and still played an 18 year old kid out of high school meaningful minutes. And it is not like Kobe was the first pick. He was picked at the end of the lottery and the Lakers had veteran guards ahead of him.

Now I look at what the Suns have done with their rookies. Their rookies are being blocked or losing minutes to players that frankly I do not even think deserve to be in the NBA. Sonny Weems? P.J. Tucker? Are you kidding me. These guys are garbage players. It boggles my mind that a player like Goodwin with so much athleticism is not given consistent playing. And everyone in Arizona knows Booker should be playing. Throw these guys into the game already. And not for two minutes. For fifteen minutes a game. EVERY GAME. I do not care if they screw up. How else will they get better. You think players like Weems and Tucker are going to improve your team. Give me a break.

Newsflash Hornacek. Your team is incredibly unlikable. Fans do not like to watch Weems and Tucker brick shots, or even Knight brick shots and turn the ball over. Play the guys you drafted. You know, the kids with actual potential that might make the team good again one day. As of right now, you are under .500 and you cannot beat good teams. Just like last year. No one in your starting lineup is an all star. So maybe the logical thing is to realize what you have been doing is not working. So play the young players. And before anybody says oh Goodwin and Booker are not ready and Kobe had far more talent than them, ask yourself this question. How do you know? Those guys are not even given a chance.

[JMac1]

In before the 'practice, dleague, rotting on the bench and earning a spot IS developing' crowd./sarcasm, smh.

That's already starting to being said for Booker lol.

Some of our fans buy that crap hook line and sinker.

[bwgood77]

It is what it is.... but its depressing to see that Wolves could leap frog the Suns next season with 2 All-Stars in Wiggins and Towns, and an emerging Lavine, when they both started "rebuilding" the same time.

We didn't have the caliber of player of Love to trade for a guy like Wiggins, so they had a NEEDED asset that they could flip into a great young piece, and when they flipped it, they really sucked, partially because they had a ton of injuries, and then they lucked out in the lottery.

I don't think Goodwin is going to turn into much regardless of his minutes.

I agree it would be nice to get lucky and win the lottery though. That would make rebuilding much easier.

[jeff2020]

I think as the season goes on Booker will see more and more minutes. Especially after the all star break. Outside of Booker who are we really wanting to play more? Goodwin? That would be the only other option and I watched him all year at UK (I live in Lexington) and his game hasn't really gotten much better outside of a slightly improved 3 point shot. Still gambles way way too much on defense and is constantly out of position. Our young players are playing: Bledsoe, knight, kieff, warren and Len and 3 of them are starting. From my point of view Booker is the only one who we all can realistically want to see more of. And when he is ready to play extended minutes he is going to be a HUGE piece for us since he can space the floor!

[lilfishi22]

It is what it is.... but its depressing to see that Wolves could leap frog the Suns next season with 2 All-Stars in Wiggins and Towns, and an emerging Lavine, when they both started "rebuilding" the same time.

We didn't have the caliber of player of Love to trade for a guy like Wiggins, so they had a NEEDED asset that they could flip into a great young piece, and when they flipped it, they really sucked, partially because they had a ton of injuries, and then they lucked out in the lottery.

I don't think Goodwin is going to turn into much regardless of his minutes.

I agree it would be nice to get lucky and win the lottery though. That would make rebuilding much easier.

100%

We could be legit tanking the next 3-5 seasons following the Wolves rebuilding "plan" and we still may not have a franchise carrying core the Wolves appear to have.

[Revived]

Play Booker minutes other than garbage time minutes. That's all.

[Christine-In-AZ]

I'm fine with the pecking order at back-up guard of 1.Weems 2.Goodwin 3.Booker, for these first 25 or 30 games.

If you give Booker most of the limited minutes available you're effectively saying the Weems experiment is a failure after less than 10 games. Good management gives Weems a good long trial (minimum 25+ games) before giving his already limited minutes away. To give up on Sonny this quickly would be very short-sighted. Dumb.

Archie is being given his last "interview". It's not going particularly great so far, but the dude has been working his butt off for 2 and a half years as a Sun. I think it would be uncool to put Booker in front of Goodwin so soon. If Jeff did, the Suns might as well box up Archie and label him "done". Keep Goodwin ahead of Booker 'til at least the quarter pole. Just a few shining moments and if nothing else Archie can attain some small trade value other than filler status. Goodwin before Booker...it's Right for Right Now.

Booker is going to get more and more looks as the season goes on. It does feel like he's going to be a good one. Just chill. Giving Booker Weems's minutes is not looking big picture. Weems should be given ample opportunity to get it together...do what he's capable of doing on both ends of the court.

Seems like every year there's a loud segment that are oddly (to me) fixated on the starting line-up followed by repetitive posts that if (insert name) started it would make suuuch a difference. I don't get the thinking, but informs me about those posters. I wish Hornacek would start Warren over Tucker if only to end the complaining. It might actually allow for faster starts to games (whoopie!) but get ready for some serious late 1st-early 2nd quarter scoring droughts. Net zero.

If the Suns (tonight against Denver) start off the game down 2-11 all these "Warren must start" folks will be yelping loud and often. Yet runs like 2-11 and 11-2 happen many, many times throughout almost every NBA game, but those runs just...well? Blend in.

If you get really excited by a 10-0 start or are seriously bummed if the "first run" has the Suns down 4-14, I'm not sure if you're processing properly. Informs me on you.

I like Warren and Tucker splitting the "48" and they're pretty much doing that now. I don't really care that much who starts, but it does make some sense to me why Hornacek is starting PJ.

BTW. Some of the sharp denigrating comments about PJ Tucker's game scattered around this forum absolutely blow me away. He's an unusual player with flaws, but why he's the whipping boy for so many of you always (2 years running) leaves me shaking my head. Many, many nights he's the Suns MVP of the invisible box score. No, he doesn't put up numbers. Yes, he gets goofy over zealous here and there, and should take some criticism. But anyone who believes and posts that PJ is not valuable or even that he's "garbage"?...that really informs me.

[bwgood77]

I'm fine with the pecking order at back-up guard of 1.Weems 2.Goodwin 3.Booker, for these first 25 or 30 games.

If you give Booker most of the limited minutes available you're effectively saying the Weems experiment is a failure after less than 10 games. Good management gives Weems a good long trial (minimum 25+ games) before giving his already limited minutes away. To give up on Sonny this quickly would be very short-sighted. Dumb.

Archie is being given his last "interview". It's not going particularly great so far, but the dude has been working his butt off for 2 and a half years as a Sun. I think it would be uncool to put Booker in front of Goodwin so soon. If Jeff did, the Suns might as well box up Archie and label him "done". Keep Goodwin ahead of Booker 'til at least the quarter pole. Just a few shining moments and if nothing else Archie can attain some small trade value other than filler status. Goodwin before Booker...it's Right for Right Now.

Booker is going to get more and more looks as the season goes on. It does feel like he's going to be a good one. Just chill. Giving Booker Weems's minutes is not looking big picture. Weems should be given ample opportunity to get it together...do what he's capable of doing on both ends of the court.

Seems like every year there's a loud segment that are oddly (to me) fixated on the starting line-up followed by repetitive posts that if (insert name) started it would make suuuch a difference. I don't get the thinking, but informs me about those posters. I wish Hornacek would start Warren over Tucker if only to end the complaining. It might actually allow for faster starts to games (whoopie!) but get ready for some serious late 1st-early 2nd quarter scoring droughts. Net zero.

If the Suns (tonight against Denver) start off the game down 2-11 all these "Warren must start" folks will be yelping loud and often. Yet runs like 2-11 and 11-2 happen many, many times throughout almost every NBA game, but those runs just...well? Blend in.

If you get really excited by a 10-0 start or are seriously bummed if the "first run" has the Suns down 4-14, I'm not sure if you're processing properly. Informs me on you.

I like Warren and Tucker splitting the "48" and they're pretty much doing that now. I don't really care that much who starts, but it does make some sense to me why Hornacek is starting PJ.

BTW. Some of the sharp denigrating comments about PJ Tucker's game scattered around this forum absolutely blow me away. He's an unusual player with flaws, but why he's the whipping boy for so many of you always (2 years running) leaves me shaking my head. Many, many nights he's the Suns MVP of the invisible box score. No, he doesn't put up numbers. Yes, he gets goofy over zealous here and there, and should take some criticism. But anyone who believes and posts that PJ is not valuable or even that he's "garbage"?...that really informs me.

Good solid post. PJ was great the other night...just the little things that don't show up in the box score. TJ is probably my favorite Sun, but I love in as that scorer with the bench unit.

I definitely agree about the Weems part. He hasn't looked good, but you can't give up on him that quickly. They signed him to be our wing off the bench to provide energy....personally it would be more fun to see Booker in there (I think...at least until he really proved how young he is) but you can't give up on Weems that quickly.

As for Archie, I'm not sure about that. I'd almost be ready to label him done, or at least trade him somewhere where he might get more minutes. Philly maybe? Would they give us one pick for him? If we could get their own 2nd rounder for him that would basically pretty much be a 1st round pick.

[Christine-In-AZ]

As for Archie, I'm not sure about that. I'd almost be ready to label him done, or at least trade him somewhere where he might get more minutes. Philly maybe? Would they give us one pick for him? If we could get their own 2nd rounder for him that would basically pretty much be a 1st round pick.

I don't think he's with the Suns much longer no matter how he performs, with Booker and Bogdanovic lined-up. If he could have just a couple or three stretches like he did back in '13-'14 it would make him much easier to move between Dec.15 and Feb.15 as trade filler with some potential or dumped for a meh future pick.

With "Project Weems" accepted, the difference between playing Goodwin or Booker 3-5 minutes doesn't make much difference. I think the Suns know and are hiding big grins with Booker's outlook...playing Archie early on seems to me a worthy salvaging something effort. Just "go off" Archie once or twice!

[RunDogGun]

Anyone think we are not playing Booker as much so other teams won't demand him in a trade to move Morris?

[bwgood77]

Anyone think we are not playing Booker as much so other teams won't demand him in a trade to move Morris?

No, I think they will play what they feel is the best strategy to win the most games this year. I agree with what ChrisinAZ said above in that you can't give up on Weems 10 games into the season. For the same reason many argue to let young guys play through mistakes...well, is Weems not allowed to do that?

I think Booker hasn't played much because he is the youngest guy in the NBA and he has only been in the league for 8 games. So much judgement on him not playing much 8 games in is pretty crazy.

[rsavaj]

Play Booker minutes other than garbage time minutes. That's all.

I have a feeling we'll start seeing Booker's minutes increase if the backups ahead of him(Weems/Archie) continue to play poorly + when Booker is less of a defensive sieve. I'd like to see it sooner than later but I'd be really surprised if Booker isn't playing more by the All-Star Break

[Revived]

Anyone think we are not playing Booker as much so other teams won't demand him in a trade to move Morris?

No, I think they will play what they feel is the best strategy to win the most games this year. I agree with what ChrisinAZ said above in that you can't give up on Weems 10 games into the season. For the same reason many argue to let young guys play through mistakes...well, is Weems not allowed to do that?

I think Booker hasn't played much because he is the youngest guy in the NBA and he has only been in the league for 8 games. So much judgement on him not playing much 8 games in is pretty crazy.

The Suns didn't play Warren nor Goodwin nor Len much in all 3 of their rookie years either. It seems to be the theme of this new Hornacek-McD regime.

If it's because their not ready, then the Suns ought to start drafting players who can contribute because we can sure it, we aren't some powerhouse team.

I guess the Suns coach knows something that the draft experts don't because Warren, Len and Booker were regarded as 3 of the most NBA ready players in their draft classes. NBA ready as in ready to play quality minutes day 1.

[bwgood77]

Anyone think we are not playing Booker as much so other teams won't demand him in a trade to move Morris?

No, I think they will play what they feel is the best strategy to win the most games this year. I agree with what ChrisinAZ said above in that you can't give up on Weems 10 games into the season. For the same reason many argue to let young guys play through mistakes...well, is Weems not allowed to do that?

I think Booker hasn't played much because he is the youngest guy in the NBA and he has only been in the league for 8 games. So much judgement on him not playing much 8 games in is pretty crazy.

The Suns didn't play Warren nor Goodwin nor Len much in all 3 of their rookie years either. It seems to be the theme of this new Hornacek-McD regime.

If it's because their not ready, then the Suns ought to start drafting players who can contribute because we can sure it, we aren't some powerhouse team.

I wish they'd play them more too, but I don't mind letting them come along more slowly too. I think there are merits to both strategies. Now if we were clearly out of the playoff picture, I would be pissed if they were not getting any playing time as rookies.

But Len was injured for half the year, and they didn't want to rush him back and give him major minutes. Then last year of course we had PJ AND Marcus ahead of Warren, so it's not like we were playing guys who can't play (I know many don't like those players, but clearly they probably each deserved to play about half the game at SF over a rookie.

Booker should hopefully get some playing time, and more as time goes on..it's still early...he got in quite a bit in the first game...many of the other games were somewhat close for quite a bit of the game. He may get some time tonight since Price is out.

[JMac1]

bwgood works for the Suns!!!