Shabazz Napier.

[AshBlackstone]

I was a very big Elfrid Payton fan when he came out of college, and still am actually.

But as I watch the Magic every game, and as the eyeball test, and the metrics tell me that our best point guard is actually Napier...

I begin to wonder, at what point do we give him a look as the starting point guard for this team? I still love Payton's skill set, but Napier seems to have improved drastically, to the point that he's starting to look like he has upside in his own right.

Discuss.

Also, LMFAO @ Miami. 2nd round pick for Napier? So long, suckers.

[Ohhwell8]

I like what Shabazz offers, but the truth is if Shabazz is having an off shooting nighy like Elf did tonight, he won't offer much else. Even going 1-13, Elf added 10 rebounds and 8 assists and still had a pretty decent game. That's why he's our starter.

[shadrock]

Im ok with Elf. I just think he needs to stop trying to do it all and play within himself and within the team concept a bit more. 90% of the time he should be taking what the game gives to him and then be selective on when to attack. At the moment he seems to be trying to force shots and passes when the simple play would have been just fine. This will improve with time.

The good thing with Elf is that even when he goes 1-13, he still rebounds, assists and defends well. When he does get it figured out he will be back to being a triple double threat most nights. Its a new system for him and its a lot to learn in a short time for a young guard. Napier is good, but hes best suited off the bench. I would certainly be ok with him beating out CJ Watson for minutes though.

[KillMonger]

I like the tandem, I'm not sold on Napier being the starter but I'm sure as hell sold on him being the lead backup over C.J Watson. I like C.J but to me man I think we need a shooter directly behind Elf to give us a different look and while C.J can shoot well to me he's more of a game manager and defender. Then again it's a good problem to have because if C.J isn't cutting the mustard we have someone capable that can run the team and hit shots. I can't stress that enough, we finally found someone that CAN hit the broadside of a barn.

But I'm open to surprises, if this performance is the status quo? then that would make things interesting for sure....Man did Miami really decide to keep Mario Chalmers over Shabazz who they ultimately ended up trading anyway? Thanks Miami

[SOUL]

First two posts sum it up.

Short answer: no.

[AshBlackstone]

I like what Shabazz offers, but the truth is if Shabazz is having an off shooting nighy like Elf did tonight, he won't offer much else. Even going 1-13, Elf added 10 rebounds and 8 assists and still had a pretty decent game. That's why he's our starter.

Payton came into tonight shooting 39 percent from the field. Almost every night is a bad shooting night for him.


At some point, you need to be a threat to put the ball in the basket consistently.

[SOUL]

I like what Shabazz offers, but the truth is if Shabazz is having an off shooting nighy like Elf did tonight, he won't offer much else. Even going 1-13, Elf added 10 rebounds and 8 assists and still had a pretty decent game. That's why he's our starter.

Payton came into tonight shooting 39 percent from the field. Almost every night is a bad shooting night for him.


At some point, you need to be a threat to put the ball in the basket consistently.

We're two weeks into the season.

Also most point guards average about 39-45 for their career, only super good shooters like Curry or otherwise Parker type of PGs that are savvy around the basket are threats for higher.

edit: Shabazz was sub 40 last year

edit x2: at some point, meaning 1 season and a week in you want to appoint Shabazz starter minutes after a good game?

If Elfrid wasn't adding anything else to his game then obviously you go with the player that'll do more for you but Shabazz is streaky (but good in spurts off the bench and can get super hot, why couldn't he be a Patty Mills type?)

As a starter, he's like a less stocky Jameer post-dwight. Shoot first, nice handles, okay vision.. defense not the best.

[Orlwillbeback]

I like napier as a long term offensive sparkplug off the bench like he was tonight. Similar to Patty Mills for the spurs. Payton is a more complete player and he is still developing. If payton develops a passable jumpshot and capable finisher in the paint then he will be an all star guard.

If only there was someway we could combine the two?

[Orlwillbeback]

I like what Shabazz offers, but the truth is if Shabazz is having an off shooting nighy like Elf did tonight, he won't offer much else. Even going 1-13, Elf added 10 rebounds and 8 assists and still had a pretty decent game. That's why he's our starter.

Payton came into tonight shooting 39 percent from the field. Almost every night is a bad shooting night for him.


At some point, you need to be a threat to put the ball in the basket consistently.

This is true but it is best in the long term if we develop payton. He is 3 years younger than napier.

[MagicStarwipe]

It's not like Elfrid is some chucker selfish PG. He missed a ton of shots around the rim. Some he was fouled on with no call (surprise, surprise), but I was encouraged that he was at least attacking the rim. That's what we want from him. For a PG in this league he's still a baby. The fact that an off night for him also includes 10 boards and 8 assists is pretty nice.

As for Shabazz... great shooting backup PG. Best served coming off the bench where his size can't be exploited as much. Definitely deserves to play. He looks like he might be the best shooter on the team. I feel pretty confident every time he has a good look from deep.

[OrlandoDream]

This Should not be a serious discussion. Shabazz has one 20point game and all the sudden he is out starting PG? Be reasonable now. Also Elf possess One thing that makes him the automatic favor for skiles......defense. Napier is atrocious at the defensive end. He is out there for his offense but is a liability on defense. For example, the majority of us are such in awe with Vucs gw and Bazz great scoring game that we forget the great D Elfrid played on Williams on the ending seconds. He made him force a bad shot that missed badly. Even when he doesn't score, elf does other things that helps us win the games. Aside from his D he also put up 8ast and 9reb,

[Skin]

Knee jerk reaction. Napier is a poor man's Jameel Nelson. Elfrid is the diamond in the rough.

[GANGSTERDOG]

Honestly it might be that Oladipo and Elfrid are a bad fit together. Eventually one will either need to be traded or come off the bench.

[NBlue]

Did everyone not notice that Napier did much of his damage at the 2 tonite?

At his first insertion in the first half Napier really struggled in running the offense. In the second half he played much better and he was used throughout the end of the game at the 2 where he hit a ton of big shots. He was awesome there but I don't see him as a pg -- not in heavy use and not yet. Yes, he will hit some shots -- no question -- but what of our offense? Also, what of his defense -- it was really bad until the end where I thought he was fighting pretty hard.

Love Napier. Love his shooting. Love him on our team. But let's slow way down and analyze what he can do and what he can't (at least not yet).

[Blue_and_Whte]

This Should not be a serious discussion. Shabazz has one 20point game and all the sudden he is out starting PG? Be reasonable now. Also Elf possess One thing that makes him the automatic favor for skiles......defense. Napier is atrocious at the defensive end. He is out there for his offense but is a liability on defense. For example, the majority of us are such in awe with Vucs gw and Bazz great scoring game that we forget the great D Elfrid played on Williams on the ending seconds. He made him force a bad shot that missed badly. Even when he doesn't score, elf does other things that helps us win the games. Aside from his D he also put up 8ast and 9reb,

Well look who the OP is. Anyway, Napier is what he was last night, a sparkplug off the bench. We know he can hit big shots in big games and that's what we need him to do. In terms of Paytons shooting the ball, well you miss 100% of the shots you don't take and Id rather him attack the basket than not being a threat at all.

[NBlue]

In terms of Paytons shooting the ball, well you miss 100% of the shots you don't take and Id rather him attack the basket than not being a threat at all.

Ummm, I guess in Payton's case you only miss 92.3% of the shots you do take...

(I'm sorry, he is my favorite player but I just had to do it).

[OrlDave]

Shabazz is a feast or famine type a guy. Last night was a feast, clearly. Elf gives you assists, rebounding and defense every night, but clearly still has issues scoring. It's nice to have a guy like Bazz who can come into the game and if he's hot can completely tip a game your direction. But relying on him to be that guy nightly when he doesn't really give you much beyond scoring isn't the best idea.

[MagicFan32]

"metrics"
not sure how serious i can take you with regards to statistics when you seem to put so much weight into a small sample size of minutes

that said i have been impressed with shabazz he had a solid pre-season and the fact that he can shoot the ball will get him on the court

[ezzzp]

Teams aren't even thinking about Napier right now...as soon as he becomes a regular rotation guy they'll have him scouted and he'll get punished as they'll go right at him the minute he steps on the floor and they'll force him away from the shots he can make.

Can you imagine Westbrook, CP3 etc vs Bazz? when Payton and CJ aren't working, he can be the occasional spark off the bench...that is all

[MagicFan101]

Yup, Napier is spark off the bench guy and nothing more. But many players have proven that a long, productive career can be had in this role. He will be fine but he is a backup.