What has been the best off-season move so far?

[JDR720]

We had a pretty controversial off season, which of the moves we made looks to be the best move at this point in the season.

-Lamb and Hawes trades (both done via Lance trade). we got rid of Lance who had one of the worst seasons in NBA history, we got Hawes who has been terrible and Lamb who has been really good.
-Signing Lin to a bargain contract
-Drafting Frank with the 9th pick
-Batum trade for Vonleh and Gerald

[Braggins]

Lamb

[Walt Cronkite]

"So far" it has to be Lamb while dumping Lance.

[yosemiteben]

I think it has to be Lamb because he is the only new guy that has performed above expectations that we have also been able to lock down by an extension.

Batum has the potential to be the most meaningful additional IMO, but we have to retain him next summer. I don't know what to make of Lin, I hope he's not just a rental but I don't see how we retain him if he doesn't want to give us a serious discount next summer.

I think at the end of this season Batum will prove to be the most valuable addition for this season.

[Mystical Apples]

Other

The best move was committing to higher bbiq players who can pass and shoot. In other words, basketball players.

[Hornet Mania]

Lamb and Lin are neck-and-neck in my eyes judging by the early returns, but the addition-by-subtraction of Lance that was also attached to the Lamb acquisition makes him the winner in my eyes.

And, as Yosemiteben mentioned, the fact Cho also locked him up is nice for peace of mind. Batum and Lin might blow up and bolt (or require a crazy over-pay to retain them, especially in the case of Batum), while Lamb will be around the for the next few seasons at a reasonable price.

[MasterIchiro]

Batum was the best move. He has the most impact on the whole team. He plays with both units. He's the biggest upgrade on the roster. Unlike Hendo, he makes his teammates around him so much better, on both units, so the impact is felt throughout every player on the team. I also wasn't a big believer in Vonleh and while it's early he still hasn't shown much in Portland and it's not like he's stuck behind good players there with Aldridge gone.

Next is Lamb. He's the pure scorer we were missing but it remains to be seen if he can mature from 1st option on the 2nd unit to a 1st or 2nd option on the first unit. I have been impressed with his ability to drive and finish with either hand, pull up for a floater, shake a defender to create his own shot, shoot off the dribble, shoot off catch-and-shoot, move without the ball. He's also so athletic. He seems committed to winning and getting better. I never thought he could break out in one season but he might be doing just that.

Lin is also a huge upgrade, over Brian Roberts. He is the reason the 2nd unit functions more like a 1st unit and can extend leads or close deficits in a hurry. I love his inside out game. He can penetrate or shoot deep. Lamb's game is similar so they work really well together to create an unpredictability that demoralizes opposing 2nd units. Alot of these East teams have more concentrated talent. They have a star or two and it looks like they're better on paper but when you play a full game we have energy and stamina on our side because of the depth of our skill. We put alot of skill out there from top-to-bottom and it starts with Lin. His contract was a steal.

Last year's team got destroyed without MKG in the lineup. While defense is an area in need of improvement, we're still finding ways to win with more skill on the perimeter.

[Mystical Apples]

Looking at 3 man lineups starts to crystalize the big picture. I agree with MI if I had to pick 1 player it's Batum in a landslide because he signifies a cultural shift and ties everything together. Without Batum I'd fear my turn your turn 1990's basketball.

Ignore the player names and instead picture what each represents on the floor and from where. Then compare to highest rated to the lowest rated groups and their collective skills.

http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612766/lineups/advanced/?CF=MIN*GE*20&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=3&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1

[EwingSweatsALot]

I went with Batum.

Mostly because Hawes was lumped into the Lamb trade and we have Hawes under contract for way longer than anybody wants.

Batum has also been our best player.

[Liver_Pooty]

Batum, easily

[spaceballer]

I went with Batum.

Mostly because Hawes was lumped into the Lamb trade and we have Hawes under contract for way longer than anybody wants.

Batum has also been our best player.

I was inclined to say Lamb because you kill two birds with one stone, by getting rid of Lance and by locking down Lamb long term. But now that I think about it, you're right about Hawes. Having Hawes locked down for 2 or 3 more years kind of cancels out the Lamb extension.

Hawes won't even get value as an expiring in trade because he's got 2 more years (3 if he exercises his player option, which he will do if he still sucks). As a matter of fact, the player option of another $6M at the end decreases the trade value of the contract, if anything. And he'll be paid nearly as much as Lamb. They're both making $6M next year. If Hawes exercises his option, then his contract will run out only 1 yr before the end of Lambs extension. In that case, Hawes's contract will run nearly the entire length of Lamb's extension, at about the same amount of salary, too (and hurting trade value with the player option in the meantime).

Batum might leave in the summer, or require an overpay to stay. He's a good player and helps the team, but I'm not sure if paying him max money or near max, which will certainly be inflated under the new cap, is the best choice. With 8 seasons under his belt, he'll be eligible for a max contract worth 30% of the new (inflated) cap next year. And of course, there's the fact that you had to trade assets for him in the first place. Whatever you think of Vonleh and his eventual fate in the NBA, the fact remains that Vonleh had trade value as a young prospect. If you could get Batum for free (which you couldn't), then Vonleh could have been traded elsewhere for value. So there's an opportunity cost here. Not to mention Batum plays best at the SF, and MKG (who already got a pricey and lengthy extension) plays SF, so you need to play Batum out of position at SG or bench MKG when he returns. Batum has all the leverage, since the Hornets traded assets for him, and are building the offense around him to pump up his numbers for other interested teams in the summer. His agent sees the cap hike as well as anyone, so there's no reason for him not to push for getting the max (which will be huge at 30% of the new salary cap). Especially since the FO gave him all the leverage he wants to ask for a max, which (if the cap comes in at the expected $90M) may be close to $30M per year for 5 years.

In terms of opportunity cost, not only did Lin come on a cheap deal, but he didn't require trading away assets (like Vonleh) or taking on liabilities (like Hawes's longterm contract at possibly overpriced salary, with a player option to boot). But who knows if they plan to keep Lin with a pricey long-term fair market contract after this season.

Lin already gave a discount so he won't do it again. He's following the model used by his former teammate Ed Davis, take a discount for a showcase year and then cash in. He will need a large contract to compensate for the lost earnings from the discounted showcase year. He even allowed the Hornets to keep their MLE and only use the BAE on him because he didn't care about this year's money. That means his next year has to earn back all that he lost this year. Ed Davis said he liked the Lakers (and the Lakers liked him) and would have liked to stay with them after the discounted showcase year, but he had to take the largest offer from the Blazers because he had to recoup the lost earnings from the discounted year. The Hornets have the fourth most cap space of all NBA teams next summer. They can afford to pay Lin if they really want to (the question is if they will want to). Lin is entering his prime production years. This will be the contract that typically earns the player the most money throughout his career. He's not an aging vet or roleplayer struggling to stay in the league or ringchasing. He's not going to take a discount entering the prime of his career with the Hornets having the 4th most money, after Lin already took a discount and needs to recoup the lost income, and with Batum pushing for a Max. I'm not sure how you can sell Lin on taking a discount if you're flush with money and handing out the Max to Batum, with Lin entering his prime years contract and having already having given a discounted year to the Hornets and needing to recoup the discounted year's earnings.

Right now, I'm voting other till we see how the season turns out. You've got Lamb yoked to Hawes for nearly the same money and nearly the same amount of years. You've got Batum possibly wanting and getting a max of 30% of the future cap with $30M per year for 5 years, or walking for nothing after the loss of Vonleh (or whatever Vonleh could have been traded for instead). And you've got Lin possibly leaving because the FO doesn't want to bring him back for his prime production years and pay him to compensate for the discounted year. But even in the worst case scenario, the Lin signing may come out as the best deal since the FO is only paying $2M and didn't have to give up assets or take on liabilities like with Batum or Lamb.

[yosemiteben]

$5MM (or < 2% of the cap for most of the life of his contract) is fine for a backup C, and Hawes is fine as a backup C. I think a lot of folks are dramatically overestimating what $5MM will get you in next season's FA class. I guarantee you that no one here will wish we could have gotten a different big man FA that will actually accept that amount unless it's a David West situation.

I think it's a major exaggeration to say that Hawes tanks the value from the Lamb trade.

If Lamb can consistently give us 70-80% of the production than he's given us so far, that $7M / 3 year deal will be a massive steal. We shouldn't be using it to call Hawes's deal a bad deal by comparison.

[spaceballer]

$5MM is fine for a backup C, and Hawes is ok as a backup C. I think a lot of folks are dramatically overestimating what $5MM will get you in next season's FA class. I guarantee you that no one here will wish we could have gotten a different FA that will actually accept that amount unless it's a David West situation.

I think it's a major exaggeration to say that Hawes tanks the value from the Lamb trade.

If Lamb can consistently give us 70-80% of the production than he's given us so far, that $7M / 3 year deal will be a massive steal. We shouldn't be using it to call Hawes's deal a bad deal by comparison.

It's not $5M.

Next year, Lamb makes $6.5M. Hawes makes $6.35M.

Hawes will be here for 3 years (with the player option). Lamb will be here for 4 years.

Taken in aggregate, it's not necessarily bad. You're paying $13M a year for Lamb (and Hawes).

[Braggins]

Hawes is far from being a fine backup center. When I watch him play I see a guy who isn't making an NBA roster again after his contract runs out here. He lost his backup center spot last season to Glen Davis and so far this year is sporting a 7.5 PER on 40%/25%/20% shooting numbers. His contract is dead money.

[yosemiteben]

$5MM is fine for a backup C, and Hawes is ok as a backup C. I think a lot of folks are dramatically overestimating what $5MM will get you in next season's FA class. I guarantee you that no one here will wish we could have gotten a different FA that will actually accept that amount unless it's a David West situation.

I think it's a major exaggeration to say that Hawes tanks the value from the Lamb trade.

If Lamb can consistently give us 70-80% of the production than he's given us so far, that $7M / 3 year deal will be a massive steal. We shouldn't be using it to call Hawes's deal a bad deal by comparison.

It's not $5M.

Next year, Lamb makes $6.5M. Hawes makes $6.35M.

Hawes will be here for 3 years (with the player option). Lamb will be here for 4 years.

Taken in aggregate, it's not necessarily bad. You're paying $13M a year for Lamb (and Hawes).

Ok, point remains. $6MM next season will be the equivalent of ~7% of the cap, and the following season it will be ~6% of the cap.

That's the equivalent of a $4M deal under the current cap, or less than the current MLE.

[fatlever]

I'm going with Lin because we didnt have to give up anything to get him.

In the case with Lamb, we had to take on Hawes 3 year deal to get him. In the case with Batum, we had to give up Vonleh. Lin basically cost nothing.

[yosemiteben]

Hawes is far from being a fine backup center. When I watch him play I see a guy who isn't making an NBA roster again after his contract runs out here. He lost his backup center spot last season to Glen Davis and so far this year is sporting a 7.5 PER on 40%/25%/20% shooting numbers. His contract is dead money.

You and I have a fundamental disagreement about his value and potential. He has had down games (SAS, 2nd ATL game) but he also has had some nice games (1st ATL game where he had 8 points on 4-6 shooting, 4 boards, 4 assists, and 2 steals; CHI game where he was 5-6 from the field and 3-3 from three).

Look at his last game - he had 5 assists in 20 minutes with no turnovers. He is one of only a handful of centers that can force defensive adjustments on the perimeter and that has the passing skills to capitalize on those adjustments.

[spaceballer]

$5MM is fine for a backup C, and Hawes is ok as a backup C. I think a lot of folks are dramatically overestimating what $5MM will get you in next season's FA class. I guarantee you that no one here will wish we could have gotten a different FA that will actually accept that amount unless it's a David West situation.

I think it's a major exaggeration to say that Hawes tanks the value from the Lamb trade.

If Lamb can consistently give us 70-80% of the production than he's given us so far, that $7M / 3 year deal will be a massive steal. We shouldn't be using it to call Hawes's deal a bad deal by comparison.

It's not $5M.

Next year, Lamb makes $6.5M. Hawes makes $6.35M.

Hawes will be here for 3 years (with the player option). Lamb will be here for 4 years.

Taken in aggregate, it's not necessarily bad. You're paying $13M a year for Lamb (and Hawes).

Ok, point remains. $6MM next season will be the equivalent of ~7% of the cap, and the following season it will be ~6% of the cap.

That's the equivalent of a $4M deal under the current cap, or less than the current MLE.

It's not an albatross max like an injured max contract guy, but it's locked up money that's not always easy to offload nonetheless. The Lakers reportedly shopped Nick Young this summer but couldn't find any takers for Swaggy P. He makes less than Hawes, and for the same length of contract and player option.

[yosemiteben]

It's not an albatross max like an injured max contract guy, but it's locked up money that's not always easy to offload nonetheless. The Lakers reportedly shopped Nick Young this summer but couldn't find any takers for Swaggy P. He makes less than Hawes, and for the same length of contract and player option.

That's because Young turned 30 this summer (Hawes turned 27 in April) and he was coming off of a terrible year like Hawes. If Young put up his 2013-14 stats this season, they would have no problem moving him but then they wouldn't want to.

My point is that Hawes is very capable of providing MLE level production for the MLE level contract that he has.

[amcoolio]

Well it looks like Vonleh stinks, so it was good trading him while he still had value, but still getting Lamb for nothing/trash is the best move, even if it means taking 3 years for Hawes. He's probably our best potential young player on a roster full of disappointments