Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[bws94]

^ Lol I deleted that post bc I've had enough for tonight. Going to meditate then get some sleep.

And btw, Lin is never going to see 30 minutes any time this season lol.

Meditation is a good idea. Never say never. There is a such thing as OT games you know and injuries can happen.

[bws94]

Lin's defense seems to be improving under Clifford and Silas's tutelage. If he's smart he does his best this season and opts out next year for a big contract elsewhere. If no offers come in, time to hang them up.

Lin's defense was never that bad to start with. Frankly, he is one of the better defenders on this team.

I believe fans are not happy because some players are given plenty of playing time despite not playing well while Lin got no leash. On thus team, Lin is easily one of the top 5 players and he should get equivalent minutes. I am glad Lamb is finally getting an opportunity. Lin has to play like a MVP just to get 20 mins per game.

Bottom line team lost so whatever Clifford was doing was not working.

Leash? Or is it allotted time. Or does it depend on matchups and situations in a game determining coach's decisions? With Lin, you may also want to look at the score since he leads the 2nd unit. When the score goes up or he brings the team back and ahead, Clifford has a tendency of sticking with that unit. When that doesn't happen or they fall further behind, Kemba is a known quantity for Clifford. Especially this early in the season.

[Vae Victus]

Get paid like a scrub, get treated like a scrub. Worst of both worlds to CHOOSE a paycut since youre not even compensated decently if your mins get slashed.

And scrubs like Griveous Vazquez gets 7 mil a year, hahahahaha.

[TTNN]

16mins, at least half play as SG, barely touch the ball, and another half play with a clumsy center (sorry rookie). Should have given Lin more time,

Actually the minutes in 1Q, he was playing the PJ's role, Lamb was the SG.

[tamao]

looks like he got conned lmao, should ve joined Dallas fits him better x million times no idea what hornets promised him.

[lin is ok]

LOL 2 MINUTES 1ST QUARTER, how in tarnations is he suppose to get in rhythm with the 2nd unit? ho well. lol he will be rested for the next game thats for sure. I hope Clifford gives him more burn time to heat up his game.

[yosemiteben]

People should not be surprised that Lin is not going to take Kemba's minutes. This is Kemba's team, he's just kicking of the first year of an extension, has full support of our coaching staff and FO, and has been the face of the franchise since he was drafted. Lin will only take Kemba's minutes if he clearly outperforms Kemba.

Preseason we heard that the way Lin was going to get PT was by playing backup PG and then playing next to Kemba. Right now Lin is competing with Lamb for those SG minutes.

[Jtoocheap]

Lin's defense seems to be improving under Clifford and Silas's tutelage. If he's smart he does his best this season and opts out next year for a big contract elsewhere. If no offers come in, time to hang them up.

Lin's defense was never that bad to start with. Frankly, he is one of the better defenders on this team.

I believe fans are not happy because some players are given plenty of playing time despite not playing well while Lin got no leash. On this team, Lin is easily one of the top 5 players and he should get equivalent minutes. I am glad Lamb is finally getting an opportunity. Lin has to play like a MVP just to get 20 mins per game.

Bottom line team lost so whatever Clifford was doing was not working.

Funny. The same thing keeps happening to Lin. McHale didn't know how to use him and was against him in Houston. Same with Scott in LA. The poor guy can't catch a break. Now his new coach is against him apparently? I guess I need to watch more games because I don't see Lin as one of the better defenders.

[Roy Tarpley]

First of all, no one thinks that Clifford is biased against Lin, let's just get that out of the way right now. The REAL issue is Lin's minutes and expectations.

Based on the totality of the situation (i.e., Lin's minutes in previous years, Lin's public statements about choosing Charlotte because it allowed him to get the most minutes playing his style of ball, Lin leading the Hornets in minutes and points in the pre-season, Charlotte's expected roster), I expected Lin to get around 30 minutes/game and play a similar role to what Mo Williams played last year (last year, Kemba, Hendo, and Mo all got around low 30s; Mo sometime high 20s).

I thought Kemba would start and get 33 minutes, I thought Lamb would be the SG and get 33 minutes, and I thought Lin would be the 3rd G/6th man who gets 30 minutes.

In addition to my expectations pre-season, I also thought based on empirical stats this year so far (#2 on team in PER; #5 on team in Points/game) that Lin would be not be #7 on the team in minutes/game.

Frankly, no one -- Lin fan or Hornets fan old-timer -- has provided a sensible, logical reason for why Lin is not getting at least 28 minutes/game. Someone throw me a bone here. There's such a dearth of rational explanations that I think I can find better reasons if I play devil's advocate myself. Here, let me try:

Where would Lin's extra minutes come from? Take it from Kemba? Not happening. Take it from Lamb? Doesn't make sense, Lamb needs more minutes. Putting my Lin hat back on, I'd respond: "What about from PJ Hairston? This guy has a PER of 5.7, I'm not sure why we need this over the 18.4 minutes that PJ gets. Give Lin 8 extra minutes to get to 30, and PJ would still have 10 minutes, and he can wreak havoc with his "defensive skills" in a more intense way. It's such a minor adjustment, you just take out PJ a few minutes earlier in the first and third quarters. Or you start Lamb, and bring in Lin earlier in the 1st and 3rd quarters."

And before anyone argues that I'm supporting Lin ahead of team, let me debunk that as well. Lin getting more minutes and the team playing better is NOT mutually exclusive but rather mutually reinforcing. Giving more minutes to someone who is #2 on the team in PER and who has a history of helping his team win (high school championship in CA over powerhouse Mater Dei, playoff appearances as a starter with the Knicks and Rockets) is a no-brainer.

I've lowered my expectations now to Lin getting 18min/game so that I'll be pleasantly surprised when he gets 21.

[yosemiteben]

Fans of this team have said since Lin was signed that 30 mpg was an unrealistic expectation. If Lamb wasn't in the process of breaking out, Lin would be playing more.

[13th Man]

Lin's average minutes the past 5 seasons:

2011-2012 NYK - 26.9
2012-2013 HOU - 32.2
2013-2014 HOU - 28.9
2014-2015 LAL - 25.8
2015-2016 CHO - 21.9

Per 36, Lin has the most ppg this year out any of his previous years including Linsanity and the least TOs. He has improved as a player. As I've mentioned, Lin hasn't been playing all that bad overall and the stats back it up.

He's being treated as a scrub here, the numbers don't lie. Continue to believe that he's a big part of this team, he is not.

[Roy Tarpley]

To be honest, I put the blame on Lin.

In Houston, Lin couldn't have expected that they would trade for Harden. Lin also didn't have any choice in getting traded to a tanking Lakers team by a Rockets team looking to free up space to sign Bosh. But Lin was an unrestricted free agent and he willing chose to come to Charlotte so this is on him. He's 27/28 right now, which is his prime years, so if he's happy playing 20 minute/game for a borderline playoff team, so be it.

[Roy Tarpley]

Fans of this team have said since Lin was signed that 30 mpg was an unrealistic expectation. If Lamb wasn't in the process of breaking out, Lin would be playing more.

But you have to explain WHY 30mpg was unrealistic, particularly in the context of PJ Hairston getting 18 minutes/game when the Hornets didn't pick up his option. Is Hairston in the process of breaking out?

[Roy Tarpley]

Hairston is shooting 33% FG, 26% 3PT, with 2.2rebs, 0.7asts, 0.1 stls in 18.4 MINUTES! He might literally be the worst starting player in the NBA.

[yosemiteben]

Fans of this team have said since Lin was signed that 30 mpg was an unrealistic expectation. If Lamb wasn't in the process of breaking out, Lin would be playing more.

But you have to explain WHY 30mpg was unrealistic, particularly in the context of PJ Hairston getting 18 minutes/game when the Hornets didn't pick up his option. Is Hairston in the process of breaking out?

If Lin grew three inches, gained thirty pounds, and could aggressively guard wings like PJ without worrying about foul trouble because we don't care if he fouls out, he'd be fine taking PJ's minutes.

[bws94]

People should not be surprised that Lin is not going to take Kemba's minutes. This is Kemba's team, he's just kicking of the first year of an extension, has full support of our coaching staff and FO, and has been the face of the franchise since he was drafted. Lin will only take Kemba's minutes if he clearly outperforms Kemba.

Preseason we heard that the way Lin was going to get PT was by playing backup PG and then playing next to Kemba. Right now Lin is competing with Lamb for those SG minutes.

That shouldn't be the case (Lin competing with Lamb for minutes). Lin and Lamb play well together on the second unit and are being noticed by other teams as a force to reckon with. Lamb probably plays his best with Lin and Batum, not Kemba and Al.

I think Kemba and Lin aren't working together as in Kemba doesn't play well with other PGs. Lin tends not to do all that much on the court with Kemba and might think of asserting himself more. Kemba/Lin could be in for small ball or two attacking PnR guards, Clifford is trying to overlap their minutes and when he does, the scoreboard favors the other team.

Lin is the one that is targeted by the other teams as the guy to stop. Minnesota's coach, Chicago's coach, they want him contained. Not just for his scoring, but getting guys good shots. Sometimes if he's pressured he's contained. Sometimes not. That's where Lin seems like he can either be in that winner's strong players mode or look timid. To me last night he wasn't in that strong player's mode. Lin is the guy to finish because he can draw fouls, charges, is a proven 4Q guy, is clutch, and makes the defenders worry so he's a very effective decoy that can draw defenders away from their men and open other players up (a la Cody under the basket play in Knicks game).

I think Clifford was right to follow his instincts and have Lin close most games and that should continue. If it is a case where it works to have a different player in it due to how the game unfolded and matchups, he won't play. I think last night was that game and also, Lin wasn't playing his game all game.

[Roy Tarpley]

Hairston is shooting 33% FG, Kemba is 39%, Hawes is 38%, Kaminsky is 36% -- you start adding these up, and it shouldn't be surprising when we score less points than the other team.

[13th Man]

People should not be surprised that Lin is not going to take Kemba's minutes. This is Kemba's team, he's just kicking of the first year of an extension, has full support of our coaching staff and FO, and has been the face of the franchise since he was drafted. Lin will only take Kemba's minutes if he clearly outperforms Kemba.

It should not be about that imo. This is not about Lin vs. Kemba or who's team it is. Kemba isn't even the best player on this team, Batum is, so the question is does he still deserve to be treated with superstar status?

The coach should allocate the minutes accordingly to try to win the most games based on player's efficiencies. In this regard, the scale is heavily unbalanced based on their overall numbers.

Lin did not come to Charlotte with the goal of outperforming Kemba Walker. He came with the intention of be allowed to play, which ironically he's getting least PT of his entire career.

[Teddyb]

Lin finished the 2 games prior to this game when he was playing well.....last night although it looked like he was getting it going Batum and Lamb were playing well......ANd Walker is the starter....This is how its going to be, Perhaps Lin made a mistake.....its early...time will tell

[BlackOutBuzz]

Fans of this team have said since Lin was signed that 30 mpg was an unrealistic expectation. If Lamb wasn't in the process of breaking out, Lin would be playing more.

But you have to explain WHY 30mpg was unrealistic, particularly in the context of PJ Hairston getting 18 minutes/game when the Hornets didn't pick up his option. Is Hairston in the process of breaking out?

Several starters don't even average 30, let alone their backups. Kemba is just under 32 minutes himself, so 30 for Lin is just an unreasonable expectation to have.

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