Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[Roy Tarpley]

Well, "averaging" 30 minutes might be unreasonable since there are always blowouts. So 28m on average is more like it, but if you take the "blowout" outliers, then 30 shouldn't be unreasonable. Kemba, Hendo, and Mo got around 30 minutes each toward the end of last year (averages were less with the blowout games).

[bws94]

People should not be surprised that Lin is not going to take Kemba's minutes. This is Kemba's team, he's just kicking of the first year of an extension, has full support of our coaching staff and FO, and has been the face of the franchise since he was drafted. Lin will only take Kemba's minutes if he clearly outperforms Kemba.

It should not be about that. This is not about Lin vs. Kemba or who's team it is. The coach should allocate the minutes accordingly to try to win the most games based on player's efficiencies. In this regard, the scale is heavily unbalanced based on their overall numbers.

Lin did not come to Charlotte with the goal of outperforming Kemba Walker. He came with the intention of be allowed to play, which ironically he's getting least PT of his entire career.

It's 10 games. The only thing we can notice is that some of the PT that would have gone to Kemba may not happen due to them not performing great together on the court. Kemba will play less minutes if Clifford feels the offense is flowing better through Lin. Sometimes it does, mostly it doesn't. Lin's unit's offense did not flow well yesterday where it kicked butt in the Knick game.

Another problem is on Lin. He has NOT stepped up and played well against the tough starting PGs as he is capable of. I've seen him match Rose or come close to it in previous games. Lin wasn't decisive, quick or forceful enough when Rose guarded him. Got by him once, got his shot blocked, ok it happens. Should have kept going at Rose the way he went at Brooks. When 1st unit guys pile up on him, Lin has to still keep the offense flowing and get to his spots. This is where Kemba is clearly more effective than Lin and that's a reason to play Kemba over Lin.

The other question is why Lin comes in so late in quarters. Again it looks like because Kemba and him just don't play great together. Not the case with Batum or MW, Lin looks good with them. But I think if Lin is imposing his will and playing well in the 4th, especially on defense, and if matchups favor the case, he tends to finish the close games.

[13th Man]

I tend to think that the reason why Lin and Kemba aren't playing together much anymore is more due to Lamb's emergence and new contract which puts him over Lin in the pecking order.

Before this Lin used to close out the 2nd quarters, he no longer does that even when he's playing well (Knicks game). Lamb is the guy that gets to stay on now for the rest of the half, he's also the first sub in. On top of this if Lamb is playing alright, he now gets to close out games too, this is why he saw 35 minutes last night.

So Lin is being squeezed out by both Kemba and Lamb but not only that, he is the last player to be subbed in. The end result is that in order for him to get over 20 minutes these days he has to play very well in his limited minutes.

Simply put, he is getting the shaft and this is what I've been trying to get at. It's not just one game, this has been the trend and will continue. His current role is even less than with the Lakers and the minutes reflect that.

[Jtoocheap]

To be honest, I put the blame on Lin.

In Houston, Lin couldn't have expected that they would trade for Harden. Lin also didn't have any choice in getting traded to a tanking Lakers team by a Rockets team looking to free up space to sign Bosh. But Lin was an unrestricted free agent and he willing chose to come to Charlotte so this is on him. He's 27/28 right now, which is his prime years, so if he's happy playing 20 minute/game for a borderline playoff team, so be it.

I didn't follow his free agency much. What was the market for Lin? It seems like he might have gotten paid a bit more and that he is betting on himself in away.

[bws94]

I tend to think that the reason why Lin and Kemba aren't playing together much anymore is more due to Lamb's emergence and new contract which puts him over Lin in the pecking order.

Before this Lin used to close out the 2nd quarters, he no longer does that even when he's playing well (Knicks game). Lamb is the guy that gets to stay on now for the rest of the half, he's also the first sub in. On top of this if Lamb is playing alright, he now gets to close out games too, this is why he saw 35 minutes last night.

So Lin is being squeezed out by both Kemba and Lamb but not only that, he is the last player to be subbed in. The end result is that in order for him to get over 20 minutes these days he has to play very well in his limited minutes.

Simply put, he is getting the shaft and this is what I've been trying to get at. It's not just one game, this has been the trend and will continue. His current role is even less than with the Lakers and the minutes reflect that.

How is Lamb tending to close out games? Lin has closed far more close games than Lamb. Lamb only closed yesterday over Lin. That's it. The other close games Lin closed or Lamb closed with Lin unless they were blowouts. Lamb didn't even play any of the 4Q in a recent game, the game Tuesday, when he shot, what, 80 percent from the field while Lin played the whole 4Q. Clifford said because of Lin's D he couldn't work Lamb in in that quarter. That was a recent game.

Lamb is on the court earlier I think because he plays better with Kemba than Lin does. There's more production with Kemba and Lamb vs. Kemba and Lin. Why does it have to do with a contract other than what's going on with how players play together?

With that said, if looking at what each player brings on both end of the floor, including defense, leadership, ability to draw attention, Lin still makes more sense to close as a guard on the floor from off the bench than any other guard in most game circumstances. Sometimes Lamb might or even someone else. But that's what we have to look at. Game circumstances.

[13th Man]

^^ If you start to observe the trend, you'll see that Lamb will get to close out the 2nd quarters (most likely in all games going forward) and will also have a choice of closing out the game if Lin doesn't make the most of his opportunity. Lin will no longer close out the 2nd quarters and may or may not close out the games. Lin will continue to be the last player subbed in.

Whatever the case is, Lin's avg. minutes will be cut short from previous years. The numbers don't lie.

[lin is ok]

PJ makes sense if Kemba can hit those shots. But Kemba isn't . So why not put either Lamb or Lin in? Frankly Lin would be a stronger choice , cause he is more 2 way than Lamb. Either that or they got to bring Lin much earlier and longer minutes. The current trend of his diminishing minutes , despite what he brings to the team. too short a lease.

[lin is ok]

Fans of this team have said since Lin was signed that 30 mpg was an unrealistic expectation. If Lamb wasn't in the process of breaking out, Lin would be playing more.

But you have to explain WHY 30mpg was unrealistic, particularly in the context of PJ Hairston getting 18 minutes/game when the Hornets didn't pick up his option. Is Hairston in the process of breaking out?

Several starters don't even average 30, let alone their backups. Kemba is just under 32 minutes himself, so 30 for Lin is just an unreasonable expectation to have.

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hahaha he is barely making 20 .

[ChokeFasncists]

I tend to think that the reason why Lin and Kemba aren't playing together much anymore is more due to Lamb's emergence and new contract which puts him over Lin in the pecking order.

Before this Lin used to close out the 2nd quarters, he no longer does that even when he's playing well (Knicks game). Lamb is the guy that gets to stay on now for the rest of the half, he's also the first sub in. On top of this if Lamb is playing alright, he now gets to close out games too, this is why he saw 35 minutes last night.

So Lin is being squeezed out by both Kemba and Lamb but not only that, he is the last player to be subbed in. The end result is that in order for him to get over 20 minutes these days he has to play very well in his limited minutes.

Simply put, he is getting the shaft and this is what I've been trying to get at. It's not just one game, this has been the trend and will continue. His current role is even less than with the Lakers and the minutes reflect that.

Contract, potential, money etc all factor into this. Lamb will be given more opportunity because he has been invested in. Lin better play well and get a better contract next season.

OTOH, sometimes it's not about winning that particular game, it's psychology. Lin closed out two games with no Kemba, if Kemba plays fine at first and Lin doesn't. Lin still closes out that game, Kemba's not gonna be happy. It's a long season, it's a slow process. Bottom line, Lin needs to take care of his own business by playing well consistently, making few mistakes, (the shotclock violation is a big no-no) fight better thru screens. If he does that, he'll be fine sooner, later or next season.

[lin is ok]

I tend to think that the reason why Lin and Kemba aren't playing together much anymore is more due to Lamb's emergence and new contract which puts him over Lin in the pecking order.

Before this Lin used to close out the 2nd quarters, he no longer does that even when he's playing well (Knicks game). Lamb is the guy that gets to stay on now for the rest of the half, he's also the first sub in. On top of this if Lamb is playing alright, he now gets to close out games too, this is why he saw 35 minutes last night.

So Lin is being squeezed out by both Kemba and Lamb but not only that, he is the last player to be subbed in. The end result is that in order for him to get over 20 minutes these days he has to play very well in his limited minutes.

Simply put, he is getting the shaft and this is what I've been trying to get at. It's not just one game, this has been the trend and will continue. His current role is even less than with the Lakers and the minutes reflect that.

Contract, potential, money etc all factor into this. Lamb will be given more opportunity because he has been invested in. Lin better play well and get a better contract next season.

OTOH, sometimes it's not about winning that particular game, it's psychology. Lin closed out two games with no Kemba, if Kemba plays fine at first and Lin doesn't. Lin still closes out that game, Kemba's not gonna be happy. It's a long season, it's a slow process. Bottom line, Lin needs to take care of his own business by playing well consistently, making few mistakes, (the shotclock violation is a big no-no) fight better thru screens. If he does that, he'll be fine sooner, later or next season.

OK just my personal thoughts here.... I just speak for myself...
Lin worked hard to improve his game over the summer and believed that he would be given the chance when he signed that $2million/per year contract. Hornets should be taking advantage of that contract and playing him above it, but so far it looks like he being played like a $2million player. Hornets right now are loaded and punching above their weight partly because of this discount, Hornets should taken this year seriously. I know there's alot of talk about how Batum needs to be 'courted' so that he returns next year, same should go for Lin. Good luck for Hornets trying to replace Lin next year if he decides to leave.

[BlackOutBuzz]

But you have to explain WHY 30mpg was unrealistic, particularly in the context of PJ Hairston getting 18 minutes/game when the Hornets didn't pick up his option. Is Hairston in the process of breaking out?

Several starters don't even average 30, let alone their backups. Kemba is just under 32 minutes himself, so 30 for Lin is just an unreasonable expectation to have.

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hahaha he is barely making 20 .

He should probably get around 25-28 per night, and I think he will as the season progresses.

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[milesfides]

There's the possibility of showcasing Kemba Walker.

[RealHusky]

I tend to think that the reason why Lin and Kemba aren't playing together much anymore is more due to Lamb's emergence and new contract which puts him over Lin in the pecking order.

Before this Lin used to close out the 2nd quarters, he no longer does that even when he's playing well (Knicks game). Lamb is the guy that gets to stay on now for the rest of the half, he's also the first sub in. On top of this if Lamb is playing alright, he now gets to close out games too, this is why he saw 35 minutes last night.

So Lin is being squeezed out by both Kemba and Lamb but not only that, he is the last player to be subbed in. The end result is that in order for him to get over 20 minutes these days he has to play very well in his limited minutes.

Simply put, he is getting the shaft and this is what I've been trying to get at. It's not just one game, this has been the trend and will continue. His current role is even less than with the Lakers and the minutes reflect that.

Contract, potential, money etc all factor into this. Lamb will be given more opportunity because he has been invested in. Lin better play well and get a better contract next season.

OTOH, sometimes it's not about winning that particular game, it's psychology. Lin closed out two games with no Kemba, if Kemba plays fine at first and Lin doesn't. Lin still closes out that game, Kemba's not gonna be happy. It's a long season, it's a slow process. Bottom line, Lin needs to take care of his own business by playing well consistently, making few mistakes, (the shotclock violation is a big no-no) fight better thru screens. If he does that, he'll be fine sooner, later or next season.

OK just my personal thoughts here.... I just speak for myself...
Lin worked hard to improve his game over the summer and believed that he would be given the chance when he signed that $2million/per year contract. Hornets should be taking advantage of that contract and playing him above it, but so far it looks like he being played like a $2million player. Hornets right now are loaded and punching above their weight partly because of this discount, Hornets should taken this year seriously. I know there's alot of talk about how Batum needs to be 'courted' so that he returns next year, same should go for Lin. Good luck for Hornets trying to replace Lin next year if he decides to leave.

Based on the current trend, it looks like Lin was promised he would get a fair chance but he is being lied to by the Hornets. There is no way in HELL he came here to play less than he did in LA and Houston. He is easily one of top 3 players on the team but he is treated like he is 8th or 9th.

If Hornets think they can replace Lin with another same caliber player at $2m per year, they are smoking crack. Lin is worth as much as guys like Reggie Jackson easily and Reggie is making $16m per year and playing over 30 mins per game. It seems Hornets are catering towards guys like Batum who isn't necessarily better but get 35 mins a game and allow to play through all kinds of mistakes. Kemba, as much as I love him, is not a better scorer or better at defense than Lin but he is also allowed to play a ton and through all kinds of mistakes. Both of these guys don't deserve the minutes they are getting. I don't even want to discuss PJ. PJ won't even make most teams in the NBA. I get the feeling Lin got lied to and he is paying the price. Best scenario for him right now is to be traded. Even playing backup to Rose would be better than the current situation. Lin is a better player than he was in NY, Houston, and LA. Lin and Kemba are the only players that can create shots for themselves and others. Batum is not a guard and he is a turnover waiting to happen when he tries to be a SG.

Hornets are wasting Lin's talent and that's crazy just to think especially when Hornets are losing without him on the court.

[Appwrangler]

Lin's minutes will stay around 16-18 unless (knock wood) there's an injury. He's not part of the core team, he's insurance and a scoring energy boost off the bench. If he executes his role well he'll be fine wherever he ends up next year.

[yosemiteben]

There has not been one game this year that Lin played well in that he didn't close. If he's not playing well, he's not getting minutes. That's life as a backup on a team with options.

If Lin wanted to play for a team that would give him heavy minutes no matter what, I'm not sure where he should have signed but Charlotte wasn't the place.

[RealHusky]

There has not been one game this year that Lin played well in that he didn't close. If he's not playing well, he's not getting minutes. That's life as a backup on a team with options.

If Lin wanted to play for a team that would give him heavy minutes no matter what, I'm not sure where he should have signed but Charlotte wasn't the place.

The problem is Lin said specifically that he was told by the coach and GM he would get his minutes, allow to his style of game, and allow to play through mistakes before he signed. If that's not the case, why the hell would he signed here for $2m? He could go to 29 other teams for the current role. That's a total joke. The guy can't get a fair shake when inferior players keep getting their chance after chance. Batum had a few good games but he is at best 3rd or 4th option on a decent team. He is getting the superstar treatment here. Frankly, I trust lin with the ball in his hand more than any player on the Hornets if the game is on the line. Hornets don't have any superstar but several are getting the star treatment which is a joke.

[rayfantastic]

Contract, potential, money etc all factor into this. Lamb will be given more opportunity because he has been invested in. Lin better play well and get a better contract next season.

OTOH, sometimes it's not about winning that particular game, it's psychology. Lin closed out two games with no Kemba, if Kemba plays fine at first and Lin doesn't. Lin still closes out that game, Kemba's not gonna be happy. It's a long season, it's a slow process. Bottom line, Lin needs to take care of his own business by playing well consistently, making few mistakes, (the shotclock violation is a big no-no) fight better thru screens. If he does that, he'll be fine sooner, later or next season.

OK just my personal thoughts here.... I just speak for myself...
Lin worked hard to improve his game over the summer and believed that he would be given the chance when he signed that $2million/per year contract. Hornets should be taking advantage of that contract and playing him above it, but so far it looks like he being played like a $2million player. Hornets right now are loaded and punching above their weight partly because of this discount, Hornets should taken this year seriously. I know there's alot of talk about how Batum needs to be 'courted' so that he returns next year, same should go for Lin. Good luck for Hornets trying to replace Lin next year if he decides to leave.

Based on the current trend, it looks like Lin was promised he would get a fair chance but he is being lied to by the Hornets. There is no way in HELL he came here to play less than he did in LA and Houston. He is easily one of top 3 players on the team but he is treated like he is 8th or 9th.

If Hornets think they can replace Lin with another same caliber player at $2m per year, they are smoking crack. Lin is worth as much as guys like Reggie Jackson easily and Reggie is making $16m per year and playing over 30 mins per game. It seems Hornets are catering towards guys like Batum who isn't necessarily better but get 35 mins a game and allow to play through all kinds of mistakes. Kemba, as much as I love him, is not a better scorer or better at defense than Lin but he is also allowed to play a ton and through all kinds of mistakes. Both of these guys don't deserve the minutes they are getting. I don't even want to discuss PJ. PJ won't even make most teams in the NBA. I get the feeling Lin got lied to and he is paying the price. Best scenario for him right now is to be traded. Even playing backup to Rose would be better than the current situation. Lin is a better player than he was in NY, Houston, and LA. Lin and Kemba are the only players that can create shots for themselves and others. Batum is not a guard and he is a turnover waiting to happen when he tries to be a SG.

Hornets are wasting Lin's talent and that's crazy just to think especially when Hornets are losing without him on the court.

Amen brutha

[Braggins]

With Clifford there has often been a disconnect between things he says to the media and how he actually coaches. He talks every year about how he wants to use a 9 man rotation, but we've always used at least 10 rotation players. He has improved overall with his lineup management, but he still seems slow to respond to trends and make changes to the lineup. Its a possibility that he will go with the same basic rotation he decided on after camp (with a few different options to close games) unless we start piling up losses. The biggest issue is that he is trying to start a guy who is a huge negative/liability in about every aspect and then work around that. I think before too long management or Clifford will have to do something about Al. We can roll with Cody/Hawes/Psycho as our center options and feature Batum and our guards (Lamb/Kemba/Lin) as much as possible. We can fully commit to playing a solid fast pace offense and elite defense. Subtracting Al and adding a little Psycho T to our lineups could get us in the top 10 range on defense.

[lin is ok]

There has not been one game this year that Lin played well in that he didn't close. If he's not playing well, he's not getting minutes. That's life as a backup on a team with options.

If Lin wanted to play for a team that would give him heavy minutes no matter what, I'm not sure where he should have signed but Charlotte wasn't the place.

Yeaaa... When he plays well its goes 20 minutes. Lin is going to get pushed back if eveyone is playing well, why? Because he is currently an afterthought.

[steady]

I don't think it's about losing trust or broken promises or anything like that. No one expected Lamb to be as good as he has been. And so quickly. So that is shaking out but there are still also a number of other open questions. We won't know for a while what the final picture will be.

Lin just has to keep playing well and he will be fine.
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