Knicks-Cavs Official PG Thread

[IAmTheBest]

i dont know why phil retained lance thomas instead of going after another guard - ANY guard would do over calderon

[dakomish23]

The first 18 games are brutal we all know that and it's only just begun. Gotta keep fighting and must win games at home. They have good chemistry but Fisher has to find a better group to close out games. I like Melo, Gallo, Afflalo and KP and RoLo. They didn't lose bc of their defense. Gotta score.

Or maybe include Grant and push Affalo to the 3 and Melo to the 4 with either RoLo or KP. Get some spacing and ball movement.

Agreed. I only left Grant out bc he's looked hesitant/uncomforable out there. Expected since he's a rookie but I know he's capable eventually.

He's looked like a rookie but is still productive. I think if you put Gallo Affalo Godzingas and Melo out there, their shooting will blend well with his penetration.

[MaseInYourFace]

i don't know that we'll make the playoffs. but you don't have to be too good for that last spot.

This is true & probably the only reason why even in spite of our players, the coaching, the new learning experience we still could possibly get a spot.

I mean listen we're 4-5, the two teams that should make it that we lost to (Bucks & Hornets) are 4-4 & 4-5 respectively.

My issue however is the thinking that we SHOULD & WILL make the playoffs.

Nooooooooooo.

We are not that good, we should be happy for the ride, next season however I think we should expect to make the playoffs.

17 wins to 28-35 wins this season then 40+ the third season is great improvement.

The bucks and hornets suck - they are no better than the knicks

and here you are saying that they should make the playoffs

lol

They are at same level. So all three suck. I'd argue bucks are a step or two ahead of Knicks in terms of long term plan.

[Greenie]

If you dont think a team with a best starting lineup of Lopez/Porzingis/Melo/Afflalo/Galloway isnt playoff calibre in the east, then i dont know what to tell you.

the team is a couple of chokes away from being 5-5 or better, with a win against a team that went to the finals last season.

maybe i should have used playoff roster instead of playoff team, because unfortunately fisher is part of the team and he sucks and is costing us games

Robin Lopez is our starting center when in reality he is a backup, his offensive game is also very.....shaky.
Porzingis is a rookie, picks up a lot of foolish fouls, his stamina is still building, his shot struggles & he is not aggressive as a scorer.
Melo is Melo for better or worse.
Arron is our 2nd scorer when he is really a 4th/5th scorer, not to mention his defense has fallen.
Galloway is good.

That's not a playoff calibre team especially when the bench is so erratic.

Robin Lopez was the starting center on a team that won 53 games in a completely stacked western conference. He's still a starter now.

Porzingis is a rookie, but he is quite effective in the minutes he does play. His help defense is excellent and his length is disruptive. He gives us a legit 7 footer twin towers situation in our starting lineup and he can stretch the floor. He has lapses and rookie mistakes sometimes, but luckily we have some depth at the 4

Melo is melo - agreed. but when healthy (he still seems very rusty) he is an efficient 25+ ppg scorer.

Agree with afflalo, but he's still a solid starting shooting guard for eastern conference standards. the position is shallow to begin with

Galloway is good

By playoff caliber I'm not saying we are definitely going to make the playoffs. I'm saying our roster is easily talented enough for it.

Boston is going hard for a playoff spot and their roster sucks compared to ours. the difference is that they have an excellent coach. Our coach is what is costing us big.

You have to see that we have leads on teams like the cavs and spurs for much of the game and then at the end completely collapse. hell, we even collapse in the 4th against garbage teams like the bucks and hornets. It's not like we are outmatched the entire game due to lack of talent and rarely have a lead. this is a clear coaching problem. The talent is there but then you have stupid ass lineups on the floor during which leads evaporate within a matter of minutes. there are stretches when the lineups cannot generate offense and/or get stops. these are lineup problems due to fisher's tactical incompetence

Robin was the 5th starter in Portland. He played next to LMA, Batum, Wes Matthews and Lillard. He was the 5th starter. What does that mean? That means that is was the 5th best player in that starting lineup. Here, you can make an argument for him being the 2nd starter.

Afflalo sits in the same boat as Robin. Arron also came off the bench in Portland. He only started due to injury.

Galloway does not start for us. Jose does though...

Boston has a much better roster than us.

[JBreezeNY]

If you dont think a team with a best starting lineup of Lopez/Porzingis/Melo/Afflalo/Galloway isnt playoff calibre in the east, then i dont know what to tell you.

the team is a couple of chokes away from being 5-5 or better, with a win against a team that went to the finals last season.

maybe i should have used playoff roster instead of playoff team, because unfortunately fisher is part of the team and he sucks and is costing us games

Robin Lopez is our starting center when in reality he is a backup, his offensive game is also very.....shaky.
Porzingis is a rookie, picks up a lot of foolish fouls, his stamina is still building, his shot struggles & he is not aggressive as a scorer.
Melo is Melo for better or worse.
Arron is our 2nd scorer when he is really a 4th/5th scorer, not to mention his defense has fallen.
Galloway is good.

That's not a playoff calibre team especially when the bench is so erratic.

Robin Lopez was the starting center on a team that won 53 games in a completely stacked western conference. He's still a starter now.

Porzingis is a rookie, but he is quite effective in the minutes he does play. His help defense is excellent and his length is disruptive. He gives us a legit 7 footer twin towers situation in our starting lineup and he can stretch the floor. He has lapses and rookie mistakes sometimes, but luckily we have some depth at the 4

Melo is melo - agreed. but when healthy (he still seems very rusty) he is an efficient 25+ ppg scorer.

Agree with afflalo, but he's still a solid starting shooting guard for eastern conference standards. the position is shallow to begin with

Galloway is good

By playoff caliber I'm not saying we are definitely going to make the playoffs. I'm saying our roster is talented enough for it.

Boston is going hard for a playoff spot and their roster sucks compared to ours. the difference is that they have an excellent coach. Our coach is what is costing us big.

You have to see that we have leads on teams like the cavs and spurs for much of the game and then at the end completely collapse. hell, we even collapse in the 4th against garbage teams like the bucks and hornets. It's not like we are outmatched the entire game due to lack of talent and rarely have a lead. this is a clear coaching problem. The talent is there but then you have stupid ass lineups on the floor during which leads evaporate

You see now with Robin that gets tricky because you can attribute the team's success mainly on his job of being a defensive energy guy playing along two stars & a third scorer. When you throw him on a team like this with one star, a rookie & not the same Arron Afflalo you run into problems because you're asking too much out of him.

Porz I honestly have no issues with what you're saying but that's the problem you can't ask a guy like that who is clearly learning on the go to be our 2nd/3rd scorer to lead us into the playoffs. He shows too much hesitation offensively right now for that. But I do love his help defense.

You do have a point on AA, can't argue that but I believe he came off the bench in Portland, I don't remember.

The thing that you're saying as far as the leads goes is there's a mix of issues that I can't lay on Derek directly. Our defense is pretty poor & struggles particularly by the 3 point line & post defense, that's on our players & the fact they have a tendency to switch.

Now on Fisher I think his strategy of play everybody is hurting us but that will help us in the long run when there is a pressure situation, the bench guys like LT, Lou, etc will have the confidence to hit that big shot or play clutch defense instead of Melo/KP having to do everything. It also works if someone gets injured, plug in one of the bench guys who have already been getting minutes & they won't be frustrated to pick up the fallen's guy slack. I don't have all the answers but I think it comes down to Fish wanting his whole team to gel rather than just play Galloway, Quinn, Melo, Grant, Williams, KP, Robin, AA & say screw everybody else.

But honestly for me, us being 4-5 & still being in games late is pretty good, I know, I know the rotations kills us but we are making some type of progress.

[dakomish23]

Can anyone on the board volunteer their wife or girlfriend to seduce Fisher so you can beat the crap out of him?

Better idea. Let's get Barnes court side seats.

Better Idea. Let's trade Lance for Barnes

I think o remember Barnes wanted to be here in 12-13. Woodson said no so we got Brewer. We ended up trading Brewer because he stopped hitting 3's so we couldn't play him. The 2nd rd pick we got for him went in the Bargs deal.

Meanwhile Barnes shot 34% from 3 that season and became the wing stopper (sort of) for LAC.

Good call :-/

[Thugger HBC]

i dont know why phil retained lance thomas instead of going after another guard - ANY guard would do over calderon

Lance usually does things well. Although he should never start any quarter or play in any last 5 minutes of a quarter. That has to be reserved for the teams go to unit.

[Greenie]

This is true & probably the only reason why even in spite of our players, the coaching, the new learning experience we still could possibly get a spot.

I mean listen we're 4-5, the two teams that should make it that we lost to (Bucks & Hornets) are 4-4 & 4-5 respectively.

My issue however is the thinking that we SHOULD & WILL make the playoffs.

Nooooooooooo.

We are not that good, we should be happy for the ride, next season however I think we should expect to make the playoffs.

17 wins to 28-35 wins this season then 40+ the third season is great improvement.

The bucks and hornets suck - they are no better than the knicks

and here you are saying that they should make the playoffs

lol

They are at same level. So all three suck. I'd argue bucks are a step or two ahead of Knicks in terms of long term plan.

[IAmTheBest]

This is true & probably the only reason why even in spite of our players, the coaching, the new learning experience we still could possibly get a spot.

I mean listen we're 4-5, the two teams that should make it that we lost to (Bucks & Hornets) are 4-4 & 4-5 respectively.

My issue however is the thinking that we SHOULD & WILL make the playoffs.

Nooooooooooo.

We are not that good, we should be happy for the ride, next season however I think we should expect to make the playoffs.

17 wins to 28-35 wins this season then 40+ the third season is great improvement.

The bucks and hornets suck - they are no better than the knicks

and here you are saying that they should make the playoffs

lol

They are at same level. So all three suck. I'd argue bucks are a step or two ahead of Knicks in terms of long term plan.

I agree. but jbreeze was saying his issue was saying that the knicks "should" make the playoffs. he didnt think the knicks were playoff calibre

he then goes on to say the bucks and hornets (who also suck) "should" make the playoffs

the discussion isnt about long term. it's about this season.

[IAmTheBest]

Robin Lopez is our starting center when in reality he is a backup, his offensive game is also very.....shaky.
Porzingis is a rookie, picks up a lot of foolish fouls, his stamina is still building, his shot struggles & he is not aggressive as a scorer.
Melo is Melo for better or worse.
Arron is our 2nd scorer when he is really a 4th/5th scorer, not to mention his defense has fallen.
Galloway is good.

That's not a playoff calibre team especially when the bench is so erratic.

Robin Lopez was the starting center on a team that won 53 games in a completely stacked western conference. He's still a starter now.

Porzingis is a rookie, but he is quite effective in the minutes he does play. His help defense is excellent and his length is disruptive. He gives us a legit 7 footer twin towers situation in our starting lineup and he can stretch the floor. He has lapses and rookie mistakes sometimes, but luckily we have some depth at the 4

Melo is melo - agreed. but when healthy (he still seems very rusty) he is an efficient 25+ ppg scorer.

Agree with afflalo, but he's still a solid starting shooting guard for eastern conference standards. the position is shallow to begin with

Galloway is good

By playoff caliber I'm not saying we are definitely going to make the playoffs. I'm saying our roster is easily talented enough for it.

Boston is going hard for a playoff spot and their roster sucks compared to ours. the difference is that they have an excellent coach. Our coach is what is costing us big.

You have to see that we have leads on teams like the cavs and spurs for much of the game and then at the end completely collapse. hell, we even collapse in the 4th against garbage teams like the bucks and hornets. It's not like we are outmatched the entire game due to lack of talent and rarely have a lead. this is a clear coaching problem. The talent is there but then you have stupid ass lineups on the floor during which leads evaporate within a matter of minutes. there are stretches when the lineups cannot generate offense and/or get stops. these are lineup problems due to fisher's tactical incompetence

Robin was the 5th starter in Portland. He played next to LMA, Batum, Wes Matthews and Lillard. He was the 5th starter. What does that mean? That means that is was the 5th best player in that starting lineup. Here, you can make an argument for him being the 2nd starter.

Afflalo sits in the same boat as Robin. Arron also came off the bench in Portland. He only started due to injury.

Galloway does not start for us. Jose does though...

Boston has a much better roster than us.

Robbin is not a backup center no matter how you want to spin it. Robbin was the 4th starter on a 51 win team in a conference far better than the current eastern conference. He's our 2nd/3rd starter on a team in a weaker eastern conference.

He is more than serviceable enough to start on a playoff team in the East.

Same story with afflalo. nobody ever said we would be as good as last season's portland, but afflalo is a solid starter on a low playoff seed in the east.

Galloway does not start, but should start....the whole point of this discussion. Him not starting is the fault of fisher

[Greenie]

The bucks and hornets suck - they are no better than the knicks

and here you are saying that they should make the playoffs

lol

They are at same level. So all three suck. I'd argue bucks are a step or two ahead of Knicks in terms of long term plan.

I agree. but jbreeze was saying his issue was saying that the knicks "should" make the playoffs. he didnt think the knicks were playoff calibre

he then goes on to say the bucks and hornets (who also suck) "should" make the playoffs

the discussion isnt about long term. it's about this season.

The Bucks made the playoffs last year...
They are better.

[JBreezeNY]

The bucks and hornets suck - they are no better than the knicks

and here you are saying that they should make the playoffs

lol

They are at same level. So all three suck. I'd argue bucks are a step or two ahead of Knicks in terms of long term plan.

I agree. but jbreeze was saying his issue was saying that the knicks "should" make the playoffs. he didnt think the knicks were playoff calibre

he then goes on to say the bucks and hornets (who also suck) "should" make the playoffs

the discussion isnt about long term. it's about this season.

I should've went more into detail, the Bucks & Hornets should make the playoffs because they're slightly better than us, more so on the Bucks especially with them making the playoffs. I included the Hornets because they have great defense with MKG but then I just looked up that he's injured & I can't change my post so fu*k it

It's not like I think they're miles better than us, in all reality all 3 teams suck (homer alert )

[Greenie]

Robin Lopez was the starting center on a team that won 53 games in a completely stacked western conference. He's still a starter now.

Porzingis is a rookie, but he is quite effective in the minutes he does play. His help defense is excellent and his length is disruptive. He gives us a legit 7 footer twin towers situation in our starting lineup and he can stretch the floor. He has lapses and rookie mistakes sometimes, but luckily we have some depth at the 4

Melo is melo - agreed. but when healthy (he still seems very rusty) he is an efficient 25+ ppg scorer.

Agree with afflalo, but he's still a solid starting shooting guard for eastern conference standards. the position is shallow to begin with

Galloway is good

By playoff caliber I'm not saying we are definitely going to make the playoffs. I'm saying our roster is easily talented enough for it.

Boston is going hard for a playoff spot and their roster sucks compared to ours. the difference is that they have an excellent coach. Our coach is what is costing us big.

You have to see that we have leads on teams like the cavs and spurs for much of the game and then at the end completely collapse. hell, we even collapse in the 4th against garbage teams like the bucks and hornets. It's not like we are outmatched the entire game due to lack of talent and rarely have a lead. this is a clear coaching problem. The talent is there but then you have stupid ass lineups on the floor during which leads evaporate within a matter of minutes. there are stretches when the lineups cannot generate offense and/or get stops. these are lineup problems due to fisher's tactical incompetence

Robin was the 5th starter in Portland. He played next to LMA, Batum, Wes Matthews and Lillard. He was the 5th starter. What does that mean? That means that is was the 5th best player in that starting lineup. Here, you can make an argument for him being the 2nd starter.

Afflalo sits in the same boat as Robin. Arron also came off the bench in Portland. He only started due to injury.

Galloway does not start for us. Jose does though...

Boston has a much better roster than us.

Robbin is not a backup center no matter how you want to spin it. Robbin was the 4th starter on a 51 win team in a conference far better than the current eastern conference. He's our 2nd/3rd starter on a team in a weaker eastern conference.

He is more than serviceable enough to start on a playoff team in the East.

Same story with afflalo. nobody ever said we would be as good as last season's portland, but afflalo is a solid starter on a low playoff seed in the east.

Galloway does not start, but should start....the whole point of this discussion. Him not starting is the fault of fisher

You're still not understanding. Robin played as the 5th starter, not the 4th. Here he is our second best starter. Afflalo came off the bench in Portland. He started for Orlando and they ain't win sh*t while he did so.

In basketball roles matter. Robin is not good as your second best player. Neither is Arron. They can do it, but you won't win. They are role players for a reason. Place them with better players and then you will have an argument.

[IAmTheBest]

Robin Lopez is our starting center when in reality he is a backup, his offensive game is also very.....shaky.
Porzingis is a rookie, picks up a lot of foolish fouls, his stamina is still building, his shot struggles & he is not aggressive as a scorer.
Melo is Melo for better or worse.
Arron is our 2nd scorer when he is really a 4th/5th scorer, not to mention his defense has fallen.
Galloway is good.

That's not a playoff calibre team especially when the bench is so erratic.

Robin Lopez was the starting center on a team that won 53 games in a completely stacked western conference. He's still a starter now.

Porzingis is a rookie, but he is quite effective in the minutes he does play. His help defense is excellent and his length is disruptive. He gives us a legit 7 footer twin towers situation in our starting lineup and he can stretch the floor. He has lapses and rookie mistakes sometimes, but luckily we have some depth at the 4

Melo is melo - agreed. but when healthy (he still seems very rusty) he is an efficient 25+ ppg scorer.

Agree with afflalo, but he's still a solid starting shooting guard for eastern conference standards. the position is shallow to begin with

Galloway is good

By playoff caliber I'm not saying we are definitely going to make the playoffs. I'm saying our roster is talented enough for it.

Boston is going hard for a playoff spot and their roster sucks compared to ours. the difference is that they have an excellent coach. Our coach is what is costing us big.

You have to see that we have leads on teams like the cavs and spurs for much of the game and then at the end completely collapse. hell, we even collapse in the 4th against garbage teams like the bucks and hornets. It's not like we are outmatched the entire game due to lack of talent and rarely have a lead. this is a clear coaching problem. The talent is there but then you have stupid ass lineups on the floor during which leads evaporate

You see now with Robin that gets tricky because you can attribute the team's success mainly on his job of being a defensive energy guy playing along two stars & a third scorer. When you throw him on a team like this with one star, a rookie & not the same Arron Afflalo you run into problems because you're asking too much out of him.

Porz I honestly have no issues with what you're saying but that's the problem you can't ask a guy like that who is clearly learning on the go to be our 2nd/3rd scorer to lead us into the playoffs. He shows too much hesitation offensively right now for that. But I do love his help defense.

You do have a point on AA, can't argue that but I believe he came off the bench in Portland, I don't remember.

The thing that you're saying as far as the leads goes is there's a mix of issues that I can't lay on Derek directly. Our defense is pretty poor & struggles particularly by the 3 point line & post defense, that's on our players & the fact they have a tendency to switch.

Now on Fisher I think his strategy of play everybody is hurting us but that will help us in the long run when there is a pressure situation, the bench guys like LT, Lou, etc will have the confidence to hit that big shot or play clutch defense instead of Melo/KP having to do everything. It also works if someone gets injured, plug in one of the bench guys who have already been getting minutes & they won't be frustrated to pick up the fallen's guy slack. I don't have all the answers but I think it comes down to Fish wanting his whole team to gel rather than just play Galloway, Quinn, Melo, Grant, Williams, KP, Robin, AA & say screw everybody else.

But honestly for me, us being 4-5 & still being in games late is pretty good, I know, I know the rotations kills us but we are making some type of progress.

I don't see what's so tricky about robbin. We are obviously not going to be as successful as last year's portland. robin will be asked to do more at the cost of level of success. but making the playoffs in the east vs winning 50+ games in the west require two different levels of success, meaning that robbin is more than serviceable in that respect. He is talented and is not a backup center on a team merely trying to make the playoffs in the east.

I'm not saying the players can't play better.

but a glaring problem right now - the biggest problem by far - is fisher's poor coaching. it is abysmal.

there is no excuse for doing things like trying to close out a close game against a young bucks team that has been attacking the paint all night....with porzingis at center and melo at the 4. that is like a layup drill waiting to happen. Fisher did that and our deficit doubled in like 2 minutes. he then tried to rectify it with like 3 min left by benching porzingis and inserting lopez.

He just makes these terrible decisions and and the lead evaporates within a matter of minutes almost every single game. There is no excuse for that. playing garbage lineups for like 3 minutes for the sake of geling in case of injuries is inexcusable and a dumbass idea.

our roster is talented - more talented than boston, charolette, and milwaulkee. it is the terrible coaching that mainly sinks us

[god shammgod]

the knicks need the kids to keep developing as the year goes on. we didn't hit a home run in free agency, so that's where our talent increase is gonna come from. season is about 2 weeks old. it's hard to say how good or bad they'll be 2 months from now.

one thing though. if the likes of lou and lance are gonna play more then dwill & oquinn (not even saying they shouldn't), that money could have been used elsewhere to improve the team.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

The fact that we're even in these games is a very good sign. Many teams struggle in the clutch. Let the team grow. These L's we're taking now may very well turn into W's once the schedule eases up. The fact that we were even in the game and looked better than them for a good portion of the game is a good thing to me

[IAmTheBest]

Robin was the 5th starter in Portland. He played next to LMA, Batum, Wes Matthews and Lillard. He was the 5th starter. What does that mean? That means that is was the 5th best player in that starting lineup. Here, you can make an argument for him being the 2nd starter.

Afflalo sits in the same boat as Robin. Arron also came off the bench in Portland. He only started due to injury.

Galloway does not start for us. Jose does though...

Boston has a much better roster than us.

Robbin is not a backup center no matter how you want to spin it. Robbin was the 4th starter on a 51 win team in a conference far better than the current eastern conference. He's our 2nd/3rd starter on a team in a weaker eastern conference.

He is more than serviceable enough to start on a playoff team in the East.

Same story with afflalo. nobody ever said we would be as good as last season's portland, but afflalo is a solid starter on a low playoff seed in the east.

Galloway does not start, but should start....the whole point of this discussion. Him not starting is the fault of fisher

You're still not understanding. Robin played as the 5th starter, not the 4th. Here he is our second best starter. Afflalo came off the bench in Portland. He started for Orlando and they ain't win sh*t while he did so.

In basketball roles matter. Robin is not good as your second best player. Neither is Arron. They can do it, but you won't win. They are role players for a reason. Place them with better players and then you will have an argument.

lopez wasnt the 5th starter. he was by far more important than batum. He was the rim protector in a conference full of offensive juggernauts. Batum was garbage last season. his defense fell off a cliff and he scored 9 ppg on terrible efficiency

Our team is Melo + a bunch of role players

tell me where boston, charolette, milwalkee has two stars as opposed to us with our one?

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Still blowing games but were far away from jr and bargs taking ill-advised 3's and melo taking half-court shots.

[AmazingJason]

A steep learning curve for a second year coach with absolutely no coaching experience most definitely is abnormal, because it is probably less than 1% of coaching hires in NBA history that fit that parameter.

You can tell us it takes time while some just cut to the chase and say it was a dumb idea to hire him to begin with.

No, we cannot afford his learning curve. That's the point.

Just playing dev advocate, why can't we afford it? Is this team in title contention?

Because I want to build a championship team and you can't to afford to bring along a guy so he can achieve mediocrity and be the weakest link.

The quality of the coach should be above the level of your talent until the talent rises to above average as a whole.

The coach should have prior experience in developing players, not be learning on the job how to develop players.

Because we shouldn't have to be outcoached every night while waiting for some mythical day to arrive when Fisher will outcoach others.

Because we could make the playoffs and with Fisher we will not.

Playoff experience is necessary to build a championship ready roster because it is typically necessary to lose in the playoffs before you can win it all in the playoffs.

Because we need to achieve the best this roster can achieve so we can make a strong case in free agency.

Because you don't do everything you can to upgrade the roster and let it be managed by a grade Z coach.

I think the above points are important.

Let's say the people who say our roster is garbage are correct. Even if that's true, there is no still no excuse for Fisher. Having a bad team doesn't justify trotting out the worst coach in NBA history. If the goal is to develop players, why didn't we go after someone who has a track record of doing that? Someone like Skiles, Jackson, Hollins, or heck, even George Karl.

People saying Boston is better than us. We have Carmelo Anthony, and their best player is f*cking Isaiah Thomas, who isn't even starting now. Watching a guy like Stevens coaching the hell out of Boston is so damn difficult to accept while having endure Fisher on a nightly basis.

[waya]

RoLo is actually averaging only one more shot per game than he was last season.