What happened to the Pistons

[Dame Lizard]

Drummond is getting exposed and only averaging 19/19 instead of 20/20. /thread.

[165bows]

Shooting Shooting and Shooting

/thread

People can point to all kinds of things that could and should improve but the common denominator is our inability to hit an open shot. We shot 36.5% tonight against the Lakers.................. many of which were WIDE OPEN shots. You simply can't win like that. SVG is an excellent offensive coach though, so I expect him to turn this garbage around and hopefully sooner rather than later.

Looking at the career records of the guys on the roster it was pretty clear they were not going to be much better than average offensively.

[Liqourish]

Drummond is getting exposed and only averaging 19/19 instead of 20/20. /thread.

Yep. "Falling back down to Earth".

[Arp590]

Drummond is getting exposed and only averaging 19/19 instead of 20/20. /thread.

Agreed, that is just absolutely unacceptable from Drummond.

[tsherkin]

That's exactly what I've been trying to tell some people on the pistons board. Pistons are 30th in catch & shoot 3pt %. That is like kryptonite to a pick & roll PG/offense. I think the offense would look a lot better right now if Reggie and Dre had better shooting around them.

This, yes.


Also, I feel compelled to point this out, since a comment was made earlier (not by Todd):

Does Reggie Jackson average a bunch of turnovers so far this year? Yeah, he's posting 4.0 tpg in 32.0 mpg right now, or 4.5 TOV36. He's at 17.1% TOV right now, against 30.0% AST (which is still the second-highest of his career).

And people think this is turnover-prone, of course. But naturally, he's spamming pick-and-roll entry into the lane over and over and over again in order to enable Drummond and initiate the offense. Now, stop and think about that TOV%.

Steve Nash: 21.4% TOV from 05-12 with the Suns (48.6% AST, too)
John Stockton: career 20.8% TOV over 1504 games played (50.2% AST)
Deron Williams: 16.6% TOV and 41.8% AST in Utah


See what I'm after here? Heavy pick-and-roll use comes with a pretty high turnover rate. Jackson isn't an ATG playmaker, nor is he playing in a finely-crafted, precision-instrument offensive system like Sloan's Jazz, and he IS also taking over 17 FGA/g so far this season, because the Jazz need him to. Given his lack of shot, that means he's taking around 50% of his shots inside of 10 feet, driving aggressively to the rim in transition or around screens most of the time. Then you consider that 40% of his turnovers this season are passing turnovers, and it starts to make sense.

A little bit more with the catching the ball and hitting jumpers out of his action going to the rim and we'd be having a very different discussion about this player, something more like what was going on last season.

[Lakers_Forever]

The worst team in the NBA can beat the best team on any given night depending on the circumstances. It happens to every team in every season eventually. The Lakers went out and lost to the worst times plenty when they were the best. Saying there is no excuse for the better team is a myth that doesn't exist. There are a lot of variables that does affect the out come - that is standard statistics 101 in college

Also too early to judge how good/bad teams are by record. Kings/Lakers have more talent than their poor starts would indicate. Sometimes teams just start slow. If they were in the East I think both would be in the playoff mix.

In addition to that, what many people forget to understand is the difference between a good team and a bad team. A good team plays good most of the time and has depth. A bad team doesn't, but they do still play good part of time and are good enough to be the best in a few games which is the reason there are seven game series. A seven game series pretty much guarantees only the best get there

[Ballerhogger]

we beat them last night . It wasn't pretty win by any means but Detroit could not make a shot to save their lives.

[Ballerhogger]

Drummond is getting exposed and only averaging 19/19 instead of 20/20. /thread.

he was pretty frustrated all last night it was pretty funny

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

No excuse losing to the worst team in the west, and one of the worst in the league.

Counterpoint:

The 95-96 Bulls, who went on to win 72 games that year...

Lost to the expansion Raptors.


You want to try again?

Counterpoint:

The 95-96 Raptors, who went on to win 21 games that year...

Beat the 72 win Bulls.

Flukes happen. Maybe the Pistons hot start was the fluke, not their recent losses. We shall see.

[Moose10Fan]

Drummond is getting exposed and only averaging 19/19 instead of 20/20. /thread.

he was pretty frustrated all last night it was pretty funny

Brutal performance by everyone but Dre, although it was nice to see Nick Young completely turtle on Drummonds dunk.

[kodo]

When Detroit beat Chicago, Marcus Morris was blazing hot and just killing us. He had 26 points on only 15 shots. He generally operates on the weak side compared to the Reggie/Drummond P&R, so he's the one that's going to hurt teams trying to flood the strong side on Detroit.

Last 2 games, Marcus Morris only had 6 & 7 points in 38 & 31 minutes. 2-10 & 3-12.

IMO, Marcus cooling down stops Detroit from getting enough volume scoring on the board. Vs LA they couldn't score more than 20 in both the 1st & 4th quarter.

[Moose10Fan]

Drummond is getting exposed and only averaging 19/19 instead of 20/20. /thread.

he was pretty frustrated all last night it was pretty funny

Brutal performance by everyone but Dre, although it was nice to see Nick Young completely turtle on Drummonds dunk.

I thought we'd be worse than .500 after our first 10 due to the ridiculous scheduling, so although it sucks losing to the LA A-Team and then the C-Team I can deal with 5-5.

[tsherkin]

Counterpoint:

The 95-96 Raptors, who went on to win 21 games that year...

Beat the 72 win Bulls.

Flukes happen. Maybe the Pistons hot start was the fluke, not their recent losses. We shall see.

This isn't a counterpoint. My entire point was a response to Jello's "no excuse for losing" comment. A single-game fluke was precisely what I was discussing.

[Kabookalu]

When Detroit beat Chicago, Marcus Morris was blazing hot and just killing us. He had 26 points on only 15 shots. He generally operates on the weak side compared to the Reggie/Drummond P&R, so he's the one that's going to hurt teams trying to flood the strong side on Detroit.

Last 2 games, Marcus Morris only had 6 & 7 points in 38 & 31 minutes. 2-10 & 3-12.

IMO, Marcus cooling down stops Detroit from getting enough volume scoring on the board. Vs LA they couldn't score more than 20 in both the 1st & 4th quarter.

Sounds like the same problem the Raptors have when Ross and Carroll stink up the joint. When they're hitting their shots, the floor is spaced out and the offense runs like a well oiled machine. When they don't, the flow of the offense bogs down and we end up getting a bunch of DeRozan mid ranges in a row.

[casketball]

They need depth, they have a good starting five for what they are trying to do. If Jackson can get consistent as Drummond has been then this team will be fm dangerous for years


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[Revived]

When Detroit beat Chicago, Marcus Morris was blazing hot and just killing us. He had 26 points on only 15 shots. He generally operates on the weak side compared to the Reggie/Drummond P&R, so he's the one that's going to hurt teams trying to flood the strong side on Detroit.

Last 2 games, Marcus Morris only had 6 & 7 points in 38 & 31 minutes. 2-10 & 3-12.

IMO, Marcus cooling down stops Detroit from getting enough volume scoring on the board. Vs LA they couldn't score more than 20 in both the 1st & 4th quarter.

When a player like Marcus Morris is the difference between winning and losing games, that doesn't bode well for the Pistons.

[reignfire]

Weak bench. And the 3s need to fall more.

[Player23]

I've heard this a few times and finally looked at the box for it:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199603240TOR.html

Terrible shooting from Pip and 65 percent 3 point shooting from the Raps. Bulls bench got nothing outside of Kerr, while the Raps had Christie and Zan Tabak go for 13 and 12. Weird game man, weird game.

Was a good one. Was sitting in some pretty good seats to watch Jordan clank it at the end.

Pippen's shooting wasn't atypical for him. He had no J through the majority of his career. He did his Pippen thing, though. The lack of Rodman combined with Pip and Harper sucking to open the door. Tracy Murray went crazy (by his standards) and they couldn't stop Damon. Also, of all people, ZAN TABAK killed them off of our bench, as did Doug Christie. Jordan was hot, and despite our 4Q, they had a shot on the last play. Just didn't go.

You're dating yourself old man.

I must be a much older "really old man" because I was also there and remember Jordan not clanking, but hitting the last shot, but sadly for the Bulls he shot it about .5 seconds too late.

[tsherkin]

I must be a much older "really old man" because I was also there and remember Jordan not clanking, but hitting the last shot, but sadly for the Bulls he shot it about .5 seconds too late.

Man, I was 11, and I'm rolling on memories of a game from 20 years ago. Forgive me if I got the particulars wrong. I just remember that he went for the last shot and it didn't happen, so we won.



Perhaps senility has taken the quality of my memory so far into the distance haze of the past.

[tsherkin]

They need depth, they have a good starting five for what they are trying to do.

Mmm. KCP, Marcus Morris and Ilyasova make up the rest of that starting lineup.

KCP has been pretty weak and Morris has actually been pretty terrible. Ilyasova is his own issue. They're mediocre offensively on average, a little worse than that, actually. You can evaluate them based on potential if you like, but they're a pretty poor starting 5 to support what Reggie and Dre are doing, given their dreadful 3pt shooting.