Do you agree with hinkie's rebuild plan for the sixers?

[HartfordWhalers]

Your retort to that was to cite Noel's rookie stats. But he didn't say Noel didn't play well last year. So what do you want? Is Noel playing well and is just being misjudged? From the one game I watched with him, he showed potential but looked out of control. Is it 100-percent absurd to think Philly would trade Noel is they got a top-five pick? I don't know personally, but I could see him getting frustrated and wanting out. And even if they trade him for the 2016 first-overall pick, would it change the fact that they have nothing to show from their 2013 draft this season?

So I don't think Dr. P was out of line with his observation or with his reasoning. I think you cherrypicked one line and ignored the actual argument. MCW is not on the team anymore; Noel is struggling this season. That Philly is getting little out of two picks one would hope form the foundation of their rebuild explains why their plan looks shaky. They have a lot of picks, but if 2016 and 2017 are like 2013 and 2014, then there's no way you can call the plan successful. Assets have to translate into on-court production, and by Year Three, you simply want to see that that's happened.

Lol. This is absurd. We have moved from judging Noel as a 'not good pick' based upon 8 games down to based upon 1 game.

He didn't just say the team was currently getting little production, he also said the players were evidence of not great drafting.

You are amazing...

Honestly, you've been coming off really rudely this whole discourse with the "please do better" and "you are amazing" lines that would get blue text in most other circumstances. I don't get why you think the other view point is so ridiculous that you can say such things and feel justified.

Anyway, draft success is based on results, not value. MCW isn't a Sixer, so he hasn't been a good pick. Noel isn't playing well so far this year. He played well last year, which is something on which no one has disagreed, but that doesn't mean that he was a great pick yet. If that's all he does for the Sixers, is the pick still great? Look at it this way: When talking about MCW, you didn't mention that he was the ROY in 2013-2014. You just talked about his trade haul. Isn't MCW winning the ROY more impressive than Noel showing in the race?

Again, I think you're missing the point. If all of Philly's picks turn out like MCW, have even mediocre years like Noel, get injured like Embiid or stay overseas like Saric, then it's a really big deal. I don't think a C is an inappropriate grade really, seeing as a C is considered average many grading curves, and Philly has been pretty average when it comes to the actual players they chose. It's not like it's an F. But I don't think I'd call it an A or even a B until or unless the situations with Saric and Embiid are resolved.

You replied to a thread in which I directly quoted someone saying a year of a draft wasn't good and told me I mischaracterized what he said. He even repeated it and emphasized it was exactly what he meant after you did so. So, I'm sorry if you find my comments rude, but frankly, I found yours pretty amazingly rude and inaccurate.

In terms of Noel versus MCW, pretty much everyone found Noel's rookie year more impressive (and for very good reason).

In terms of the return from MCW not mattering because it is not MCW, I think that statement is asinine and ridiculous. What matters is what the team gets out of the pick, and that is right now that Laker pick.

In terms of if Noel is never good again, then you are very correct that he would have turned out to be a bad pick (unless he gets traded for something amazing before that becomes true). But like I said when I quoted him, I wouldn't assume that Noel is no longer good because of 8 games this year. Obviously, you look at life differently.

[Chinook]

Lol. This is absurd. We have moved from judging Noel as a 'not good pick' based upon 8 games down to based upon 1 game.

He didn't just say the team was currently getting little production, he also said the players were evidence of not great drafting.

You are amazing...

Honestly, you've been coming off really rudely this whole discourse with the "please do better" and "you are amazing" lines that would get blue text in most other circumstances. I don't get why you think the other view point is so ridiculous that you can say such things and feel justified.

Anyway, draft success is based on results, not value. MCW isn't a Sixer, so he hasn't been a good pick. Noel isn't playing well so far this year. He played well last year, which is something on which no one has disagreed, but that doesn't mean that he was a great pick yet. If that's all he does for the Sixers, is the pick still great? Look at it this way: When talking about MCW, you didn't mention that he was the ROY in 2013-2014. You just talked about his trade haul. Isn't MCW winning the ROY more impressive than Noel showing in the race?

Again, I think you're missing the point. If all of Philly's picks turn out like MCW, have even mediocre years like Noel, get injured like Embiid or stay overseas like Saric, then it's a really big deal. I don't think a C is an inappropriate grade really, seeing as a C is considered average many grading curves, and Philly has been pretty average when it comes to the actual players they chose. It's not like it's an F. But I don't think I'd call it an A or even a B until or unless the situations with Saric and Embiid are resolved.

You replied to a thread in which I directly quoted someone saying a year of a draft wasn't good and told me I mischaracterized what he said. He even repeated it and emphasized it was exactly what he meant after you did so. So, I'm sorry if you find my comments rude, but frankly, I found yours pretty amazingly rude and inaccurate.

The reason why I think you're missing the point is because you keep isolating lines and not actually looking at the whole point. Dr. P said consistently that Noel played well last year and hasn't played well this year. Are you disagreeing with that observation? Dr.P concluded his post by saying that Philly's plan looks slow (not saying it was bad) because they are "so far this season" not getting anything out of that draft. Are you saying the Lakers pick is helping them this season?

You admitted yourself that it's been frustrating as a Philly fan watching the process now. Why is that? I assume it's because the Lakers pick isn't running around on the court now and because Saric is across the ocean. Maybe it's because Noel hasn't look as great this season. All those things are reasons why the process "looks slow". Everything could turn out perfectly for Philly 2016-2017, with Saric and Embiid getting on the court and playing well and with Philly drafting multiple great prospects to run with them. But that's all hope now. It doesn't ease the burn over another bad season that has to run its course.

In terms of Noel versus MCW, pretty much everyone found Noel's rookie year more impressive (and for very good reason).

Yes, including me and Dr. P.

In terms of the return from MCW not mattering because it is not MCW, I think that statement is asinine and ridiculous. What matters is what the team gets out of the pick, and that is right now that Laker pick.

Already addressed this above and in many posts before. The process looks slow because Philly has nothing on the court to show for their pick. That doesn't mean the process is bad. But it's excruciating to have to wait.

In terms of if Noel is never good again, then you are very correct that he would have turned out to be a bad pick (unless he gets traded for something amazing before that becomes true). But like I said when I quoted him, I wouldn't assume that Noel is no longer good because of 8 games this year. Obviously, you look at life differently.

I think Noel is a great prospect and an above-average player. I'm not assuming he's bad. I don't think Dr. P is either. But Noel's curve isn't all that different from MCW's curve. You don't know where it's going to go. If a team offers a top-three pick for him, do you think Philly will turn it down? I don't know the answer to that. But I do know that trading Noel for a future pick would mean hitting the reset button on that entire draft, and while that may be the right move in the end, at the present, it will make the process "look slow."

[HartfordWhalers]

The reason why I think you're missing the point is because you keep isolating lines and not actually looking at the whole point. Dr. P said consistently that Noel played well last year and hasn't played well this year.

Nope. That is you saying that. He said:

The issue for the Sixers is their plan relies on the assumption they are great at drafting. If they just C grade at drafting they are utterly ****

Looking at their picks

2013 - Noel and MCW. I don't love this draft for them right now

The rest of your post is similar garbage. He said what he said. I replied to what he said. If you are not liking the 2013 draft based off 8 games from Noel, or completely ignoring what MCW became, you are being shortsighted or blind.

If you are saying he said something different repeatedly, you are wrong...

[HartfordWhalers]

"Noel and MCW I don't like this draft" =/= "The process looks slow because Philly has nothing on the court to show for their pick"

It is that **** simple.

[Chinook]

The reason why I think you're missing the point is because you keep isolating lines and not actually looking at the whole point. Dr. P said consistently that Noel played well last year and hasn't played well this year.

Nope. That is you saying that. He said:

The issue for the Sixers is their plan relies on the assumption they are great at drafting. If they just C grade at drafting they are utterly ****

Looking at their picks

2013 - Noel and MCW. I don't love this draft for them right now

First, you start off with a part of the quote that I can't think you disagree with. If the Sixers pull a C in their drafts, their plan is SOL. Do you disagree with that?

Anyway, why does one have to love the 2013 draft? Noel is currently not playing well. That he showed in the ROY race is nice, but it doesn't automatically mean he's going to keep trending up. The guy Philly traded is a great example of that. You neither love nor hate a draft at the same time.

The rest of your post is similar garbage. He said what he said. I replied to what he said. If you are not liking the 2013 draft based off 8 games from Noel, or completely ignoring what MCW became, you are being shortsighted or blind.

Do you remember that 2006 Minny pick that was supposed to be gold in 2011? It was unprotected in 2012, and it was arguably the centerpiece of the Chris Paul trade. What happened to it? It became Austin Rivers. And before you assert that that was just bad drafting on NO's, there really wasn't anyone after Austin that was a better choice. Minny just did better than expected, and the draft just broke down in a bad way for the Pelicans.

Future picks are not hatched eggs. If anything, you can call trading the reigning ROY for a top-five pick a push. And if the Laker's can find a way to keep it this season and end up owing it after they've had another fruitful draft and finally get out of the Kobe shadow? Was it worth it?

This isn't trading Hill for Leonard (to use a Spurs reference), in that the success or failure of the deal depends on PATFO's ability to judge and develop talent. The MCW trade is based on a lot of factors outside of Philly's control. It's too early to call it a great deal. Way, way, way too early.

[Chinook]

"Noel and MCW I don't like this draft" =/= "The process looks slow because Philly has nothing on the court to show for their pick"

It is that **** simple.

It's called an introduction and a conclusion. You can't act like the conclusion wasn't about this current roster and its lack of support from the 2013 class. So in actuality, you're simply saying anyone who doesn't think that the MCW trade was awesome deserves ridicule. And seeing as many people have questioned that trade, I simply don't see how you can feel that way strongly enough to almost insult people to don't agree with you.

[HartfordWhalers]

The reason why I think you're missing the point is because you keep isolating lines and not actually looking at the whole point. Dr. P said consistently that Noel played well last year and hasn't played well this year.

Nope. That is you saying that. He said:

The issue for the Sixers is their plan relies on the assumption they are great at drafting. If they just C grade at drafting they are utterly ****

Looking at their picks

2013 - Noel and MCW. I don't love this draft for them right now

First, you start off with a part of the quote that I can't think you disagree with. If the Sixers pull a C in their drafts, their plan is SOL. Do you disagree with that?

If you want to ask me about the part of his quote I didn't comment on, next time do that instead of saying I misrepresented him when I didn't.

I think its absurdly apparent that if you draft bad and have a predominantly draft based strategy you will not do well. So absurdly apparent, I didn't think it was noteworthy to comment on.

Just like it is absurd to think I don't like this draft doesn't mean I don't like this draft.

[bondom34]

The reason why I think you're missing the point is because you keep isolating lines and not actually looking at the whole point. Dr. P said consistently that Noel played well last year and hasn't played well this year.

Nope. That is you saying that. He said:

The issue for the Sixers is their plan relies on the assumption they are great at drafting. If they just C grade at drafting they are utterly ****

Looking at their picks

2013 - Noel and MCW. I don't love this draft for them right now

First, you start off with a part of the quote that I can't think you disagree with. If the Sixers pull a C in their drafts, their plan is SOL. Do you disagree with that?

Anyway, why does one have to love the 2013 draft? Noel is currently not playing well. That he showed in the ROY race is nice, but it doesn't automatically mean he's going to keep trending up. The guy Philly traded is a great example of that. You neither love nor hate a draft at the same time.

The rest of your post is similar garbage. He said what he said. I replied to what he said. If you are not liking the 2013 draft based off 8 games from Noel, or completely ignoring what MCW became, you are being shortsighted or blind.

Do you remember that 2006 Minny pick that was supposed to be gold in 2011? It was unprotected in 2012, and it was arguably the centerpiece of the Chris Paul trade. What happened to it? It became Austin Rivers. And before you assert that that was just bad drafting on NO's, there really wasn't anyone after Austin that was a better choice. Minny just did better than expected, and the draft just broke down in a bad way for the Pelicans.

Future picks are not hatched eggs. If anything, you can call trading the reigning ROY for a top-five pick a push. And if the Laker's can find a way to keep it this season and end up owing it after they've had another fruitful draft and finally get out of the Kobe shadow? Was it worth it?

This isn't trading Hill for Leonard (to use a Spurs reference), in that the success or failure of the deal depends on PATFO's ability to judge and develop talent. The MCW trade is based on a lot of factors outside of Philly's control. It's too early to call it a great deal. Way, way, way too early.

At worst, the MCW deal is good for Philly, at best its a home run. There's literally no way I can foresee it not being so unless the Lakers are both a bottom 3 team this year and pull a miraculous franchise turnaround next year. That is much more unlikely than them being around 4th worst this year and that being the 4th or 5th pick.

As for Noel, 8 games. 8. By this standard, Oladipo isn't good either, Andre Drummond is the newest coming of Shaq and Steph Curry has already overtaken Jordan as the GOAT.

[HartfordWhalers]

If anything, you can call trading the reigning ROY for a top-five pick a push.

Please start a poll on which you would rather have right now, the Lakers top 3 protected pick or MCW. I eagerly await the numbers of people that also think that is a push.

[Chinook]

Nope. That is you saying that. He said:

First, you start off with a part of the quote that I can't think you disagree with. If the Sixers pull a C in their drafts, their plan is SOL. Do you disagree with that?

If you want to ask me about the part of his quote I didn't comment on, next time do that instead of saying I misrepresented him when I didn't.

I think its absurdly apparent that if you draft bad and have a predominantly draft based strategy you will not do well. So absurdly apparent, I didn't think it was noteworthy to comment on.

Just like it is absurd to think I don't like this draft doesn't mean I don't like this draft.

Again scoring a C isn't the same thing as scoring an F. The point that Dr. P and other posters have made is that Philly has to be GREAT at drafting, not just average. And saying you don't "love" something isn't the same thing as saying you hate it.

You are misinterpreting the post, over and over again. You're making it seem like a strong opinion against the Sixers when it seems more like a queasy inquiry.

[Chinook]

If anything, you can call trading the reigning ROY for a top-five pick a push.

Please start a poll on which you would rather have right now, the Lakers top 3 protected pick or MCW. I eagerly await the numbers of people that also think that is a push.

Would be smarter to make one asking about the pick values for past ROYs the year after they won the award. I think Wiggins gets a top-three protected pick easily. And Lillard, and Irving, and Griffin. Maybe not Tyreke, but the next few before him. It's actually a pretty clean sweep for how valuable reigning ROY winners are.

If we're going to act all teleological, let's wait until after that pick is used and the player is differentiated before trying to tally the score, shall we?

[HartfordWhalers]

You are misinterpreting the post, over and over again. You're making it seem like a strong opinion against the Sixers when it seems more like a queasy inquiry.

No, I'm literally quoting it and replying directly to it. He said he didn't like it. I said I thought that didn't match the record of that year. You so far have claimed his comment meant 3 separate things.

You are actively misrepresenting what he said to try and accuse me of it, and its unbecoming.

[HartfordWhalers]

If anything, you can call trading the reigning ROY for a top-five pick a push.

Please start a poll on which you would rather have right now, the Lakers top 3 protected pick or MCW. I eagerly await the numbers of people that also think that is a push.

Would be smarter to make one asking about the pick values for past ROYs the year after they won the award. I think Wiggins gets a top-three protected pick easily. And Lillard, and Irving, and Griffin. Maybe not Tyreke, but the next few before him. It's actually a pretty clean sweep for how valuable reigning ROY winners are.

If we're going to act all teleological, let's wait until after that pick is used and the player is differentiated before trying to tally the score, shall we?

Okay, you are a troll account.

Yes, We shoudl relate the value of MCW to Irving and Lillard and Griffin, but not even Tyreke and then answer if Philly got a bad trade of MCW because they didn't get what Griffin is worth.

Honestly answer em this: Is this a troll account.

I hoe so for your sake...

[Chinook]

Nope. That is you saying that. He said:

First, you start off with a part of the quote that I can't think you disagree with. If the Sixers pull a C in their drafts, their plan is SOL. Do you disagree with that?

Anyway, why does one have to love the 2013 draft? Noel is currently not playing well. That he showed in the ROY race is nice, but it doesn't automatically mean he's going to keep trending up. The guy Philly traded is a great example of that. You neither love nor hate a draft at the same time.

The rest of your post is similar garbage. He said what he said. I replied to what he said. If you are not liking the 2013 draft based off 8 games from Noel, or completely ignoring what MCW became, you are being shortsighted or blind.

Do you remember that 2006 Minny pick that was supposed to be gold in 2011? It was unprotected in 2012, and it was arguably the centerpiece of the Chris Paul trade. What happened to it? It became Austin Rivers. And before you assert that that was just bad drafting on NO's, there really wasn't anyone after Austin that was a better choice. Minny just did better than expected, and the draft just broke down in a bad way for the Pelicans.

Future picks are not hatched eggs. If anything, you can call trading the reigning ROY for a top-five pick a push. And if the Laker's can find a way to keep it this season and end up owing it after they've had another fruitful draft and finally get out of the Kobe shadow? Was it worth it?

This isn't trading Hill for Leonard (to use a Spurs reference), in that the success or failure of the deal depends on PATFO's ability to judge and develop talent. The MCW trade is based on a lot of factors outside of Philly's control. It's too early to call it a great deal. Way, way, way too early.

At worst, the MCW deal is good for Philly, at best its a home run. There's literally no way I can foresee it not being so unless the Lakers are both a bottom 3 team this year and pull a miraculous franchise turnaround next year. That is much more unlikely than them being around 4th worst this year and that being the 4th or 5th pick.

As for Noel, 8 games. 8. By this standard, Oladipo isn't good either, Andre Drummond is the newest coming of Shaq and Steph Curry has already overtaken Jordan as the GOAT.

The deal isn't good for Philly is the Lakers pick is the 2017 11th-overall pick. That's not even as bad as it can get, because if LA gets to keep their pick this season, they get that player, a ton of space and are finally allowed to move on from Kobe. And hell, they could get a good coach finally. Maybe they make the playoff next season. I definitely think that's possible. And I'm sure the Lakers will tank HARD if they are hovering around four.

I agree about Noel's prospects. But eight games are eight games they've lost this season, and you can see the strain it's putting on the team, or at least I could during the Spurs game.

[bondom34]

First, you start off with a part of the quote that I can't think you disagree with. If the Sixers pull a C in their drafts, their plan is SOL. Do you disagree with that?

Anyway, why does one have to love the 2013 draft? Noel is currently not playing well. That he showed in the ROY race is nice, but it doesn't automatically mean he's going to keep trending up. The guy Philly traded is a great example of that. You neither love nor hate a draft at the same time.



Do you remember that 2006 Minny pick that was supposed to be gold in 2011? It was unprotected in 2012, and it was arguably the centerpiece of the Chris Paul trade. What happened to it? It became Austin Rivers. And before you assert that that was just bad drafting on NO's, there really wasn't anyone after Austin that was a better choice. Minny just did better than expected, and the draft just broke down in a bad way for the Pelicans.

Future picks are not hatched eggs. If anything, you can call trading the reigning ROY for a top-five pick a push. And if the Laker's can find a way to keep it this season and end up owing it after they've had another fruitful draft and finally get out of the Kobe shadow? Was it worth it?

This isn't trading Hill for Leonard (to use a Spurs reference), in that the success or failure of the deal depends on PATFO's ability to judge and develop talent. The MCW trade is based on a lot of factors outside of Philly's control. It's too early to call it a great deal. Way, way, way too early.

At worst, the MCW deal is good for Philly, at best its a home run. There's literally no way I can foresee it not being so unless the Lakers are both a bottom 3 team this year and pull a miraculous franchise turnaround next year. That is much more unlikely than them being around 4th worst this year and that being the 4th or 5th pick.

As for Noel, 8 games. 8. By this standard, Oladipo isn't good either, Andre Drummond is the newest coming of Shaq and Steph Curry has already overtaken Jordan as the GOAT.

The deal isn't good for Philly is the Lakers pick is the 2017 11th-overall pick. That's not even as bad as it can get, because if LA gets to keep their pick this season, they get that player, a ton of space and are finally allowed to move on from Kobe. And hell, they could get a good coach finally. Maybe they make the playoff next season. I definitely think that's possible. And I'm sure the Lakers will tank HARD if they are hovering around four.

I agree about Noel's prospects. But eight games are eight games they've lost this season, and you can see the strain it's putting on the team, or at least I could during the Spurs game.

You're in that case:
1. Much higher on MCW than myself (and most people probably).
2. Much higher on the Lakers near term future.

[bondom34]

If anything, you can call trading the reigning ROY for a top-five pick a push.

Please start a poll on which you would rather have right now, the Lakers top 3 protected pick or MCW. I eagerly await the numbers of people that also think that is a push.

Would be smarter to make one asking about the pick values for past ROYs the year after they won the award. I think Wiggins gets a top-three protected pick easily. And Lillard, and Irving, and Griffin. Maybe not Tyreke, but the next few before him. It's actually a pretty clean sweep for how valuable reigning ROY winners are.

If we're going to act all teleological, let's wait until after that pick is used and the player is differentiated before trying to tally the score, shall we?

And this is entirely shifting goalposts.

[Chinook]

Please start a poll on which you would rather have right now, the Lakers top 3 protected pick or MCW. I eagerly await the numbers of people that also think that is a push.

Would be smarter to make one asking about the pick values for past ROYs the year after they won the award. I think Wiggins gets a top-three protected pick easily. And Lillard, and Irving, and Griffin. Maybe not Tyreke, but the next few before him. It's actually a pretty clean sweep for how valuable reigning ROY winners are.

If we're going to act all teleological, let's wait until after that pick is used and the player is differentiated before trying to tally the score, shall we?

Okay, you are a troll account.

Honestly answer em this: Is this a troll account.

I hoe so for your sake...

Seriously, you're being an ass and should step down from your mod duties if you can't treat people who disagree with you better than this. I've been on the board for months, and this is the first time you've disagreed with me on anything, as far as I know. Throughout this discourse, I have done nothing but respectfully disagreed. I didn't attack you, or insinuate that you were lying. I simply said I thought you were wrong in your interpretation. It's frankly absurd that you haven't checked yourself at this point, because you're a great poster usually and should know you've been out of line.

Yes, We shoudl relate the value of MCW to Irving and Lillard and Griffin, but not even Tyreke and then answer if Philly got a bad trade of MCW because they didn't get what Griffin is worth.

Again, misinterpreting what I said. The point isn't that Philly didn't get enough in a trade. The point is that trading a ROY for a top-three protected pick isn't something to brag about. Drafting the ROY at 11 is pretty nice, but you completely ignore that when valuing their drafting skills. Had that Lakers pick ended up being used last year (sixth overall), do I think it's an automatic win? No. I like WCS and Mudiay and Winslow as much as anyone, but they aren't instantly better than MCW with another year in the system under his belt.

[Chinook]

At worst, the MCW deal is good for Philly, at best its a home run. There's literally no way I can foresee it not being so unless the Lakers are both a bottom 3 team this year and pull a miraculous franchise turnaround next year. That is much more unlikely than them being around 4th worst this year and that being the 4th or 5th pick.

As for Noel, 8 games. 8. By this standard, Oladipo isn't good either, Andre Drummond is the newest coming of Shaq and Steph Curry has already overtaken Jordan as the GOAT.

The deal isn't good for Philly is the Lakers pick is the 2017 11th-overall pick. That's not even as bad as it can get, because if LA gets to keep their pick this season, they get that player, a ton of space and are finally allowed to move on from Kobe. And hell, they could get a good coach finally. Maybe they make the playoff next season. I definitely think that's possible. And I'm sure the Lakers will tank HARD if they are hovering around four.

I agree about Noel's prospects. But eight games are eight games they've lost this season, and you can see the strain it's putting on the team, or at least I could during the Spurs game.

You're in that case:
1. Much higher on MCW than myself (and most people probably).
2. Much higher on the Lakers near term future.

Nah, I don't care about MCW. I don't think it made sense to trade him, though. Nor do I understand why Milwaukee traded for him.

And yes, I think the Lakers can be pretty good. They're almost being artificially suppressed by Kobe and Scott right now.

[bondom34]

The deal isn't good for Philly is the Lakers pick is the 2017 11th-overall pick. That's not even as bad as it can get, because if LA gets to keep their pick this season, they get that player, a ton of space and are finally allowed to move on from Kobe. And hell, they could get a good coach finally. Maybe they make the playoff next season. I definitely think that's possible. And I'm sure the Lakers will tank HARD if they are hovering around four.

I agree about Noel's prospects. But eight games are eight games they've lost this season, and you can see the strain it's putting on the team, or at least I could during the Spurs game.

You're in that case:
1. Much higher on MCW than myself (and most people probably).
2. Much higher on the Lakers near term future.

Nah, I don't care about MCW. I don't think it made sense to trade him, though. Nor do I understand why Milwaukee traded for him.

And yes, I think the Lakers can be pretty good. They're almost being artificially suppressed by Kobe and Scott right now.

So in this case, you think they should have kept a bad player, which is counter to the entire debate you've been going through here. And the Lakers aren't held back by just that. They're held back by a lack of good players.

[Chinook]

Please start a poll on which you would rather have right now, the Lakers top 3 protected pick or MCW. I eagerly await the numbers of people that also think that is a push.

Would be smarter to make one asking about the pick values for past ROYs the year after they won the award. I think Wiggins gets a top-three protected pick easily. And Lillard, and Irving, and Griffin. Maybe not Tyreke, but the next few before him. It's actually a pretty clean sweep for how valuable reigning ROY winners are.

If we're going to act all teleological, let's wait until after that pick is used and the player is differentiated before trying to tally the score, shall we?

And this is entirely shifting goalposts.

Maybe. Maybe it doesn't make sense to look at everyone else in MCW's position for analogous value (and I say that seriously, not sarcastically). I'm willing to grant that. But I think the other part of that post is more important. A pick is only good to have if it's used well. If it becomes a bad player or even one that Philly trades for a 2020 unprotected first, then it becomes a real question of overall value.