OT: Terrorist attacks in Paris

[art_barbie]

you guys are wasting your time with frivelous banter in this thread. terrorism is not about religion. its not about a way of life. Its not about extinguishing freedom.

Its about money. Oil and therefore money. ISIS is making about 50 million per month "illegally" selling crude oil.

oil from there own home lands...lands that the western world has carved up for its own purposes which have solely been about pillaging the land of all its oil for profit.

Now we can debate who theoretically actually owns lands, or owns water, or owns air rights etc all we want...and its a complex debate.

But the guise of religion in this thread and in the world in general is just folly to bury the lead...just as religion has always been folly to bury the lead.

open your eyes. Follow the money. then follow the oil. Then follow the money back to the oil.

[TimRobbins]

Its about money. Oil and therefore money. ISIS is making about 50 million per month "illegally" selling crude oil..

You think ISIS is doing all this crazy stuff for $50M per month? Do you realize that's not even chump change? Heck, I'd gladly pay them $50M a month to put down their weapons and go away.

I realize people love conspiracy theories, but this one makes no sense whatsoever.

[veji1]

Its about money. Oil and therefore money. ISIS is making about 50 million per month "illegally" selling crude oil..

You think ISIS is doing all this crazy stuff for $50M per month? Do you realize that's not even chump change? Heck, I'd gladly pay them $50M a month to put down their weapons and go away.

I realize people love conspiracy theories, but this one makes no sense whatsoever.

I have to agree with you, for ISIS money is but a mean to an end. Money is a tool, not an end in itself right now. If they were to establish some form of state living in some sort of status quo with neighbours, then of course like in most states you would see the ploutocracy start to enjoy its riches. But this would be more of a consequence than a goal.

Right now money is not an end, it's a weapon, a tool, a way of pacifying supporters, financing war, basically a mean to function.

Really ISIS didn't appear as a way to make money !

[Rerisen]

People who want money don't blow themselves up. Every single attacker in Paris had suicide vests with that end intention.

Many terrorist perpetrators over the last decade who were born in Western countries were not poor at all, but came from well to do families. What they were poor in was cultural identity and assimilating, which is why a radical message appealed to them much greater than western money and lifestyle.

[art_barbie]

People who want money don't blow themselves up. Every single attacker in Paris had suicide vests with that end intention.

Many terrorist perpetrators over the last decade who were born in Western countries were not poor at all, but came from well to do families. What they were poor in was cultural identity and assimilating, which is why a radical message appealed to them much greater than western money and lifestyle.

well i just lost a huge response...thank you realgm. So im not typing that again.

Succinclty suicide bombers are merely the jackass pawns. a mindless part of the masses...no different than your Donald Trump coat tail riding jackass down the street ready to go step on a grenade for virtually anything he is taught or told to believe in.

[art_barbie]

Its about money. Oil and therefore money. ISIS is making about 50 million per month "illegally" selling crude oil..

You think ISIS is doing all this crazy stuff for $50M per month? Do you realize that's not even chump change? Heck, I'd gladly pay them $50M a month to put down their weapons and go away.

I realize people love conspiracy theories, but this one makes no sense whatsoever.

middle east has 70% of the worlds oil reserves.

isis has control of about .1% of ME oil right now. and is on pace to do $600 million per year in profit. they are selling on the black market for pennies on the dollar and still raking it in.

ISIS has no real power right now because they are being sold to the rest of the world as local outlaws, gangsters, and hoodlums. But all they want is their land back...and their oil that goes with it. they cant get their land back because the opec oil compainies are proteced by powerful military forces on the big 6. Russia, US, germany, Brits, China, France whom all have a vested interest. Like any street thug with no real negotiating power, they have resorted to violence to instill fear. All they want is to be left alone to self govern...once they self govern the new government will take back control of their oil reserves like the saudis (50%) did in the 1950's. they will likley threaten to cut off supply...supply controls the price.

if they can get 20% of the MidEast oil, it is worth about $200 billion per year in profit at todays profit. Only the rothchilds and some saidi aramco oil, brit(BP) family oil, and norwegian family oil(Dutch royal schell) make more money. But if they did get control th eprice of oil would sky rocket...likely by a factor of 10 or more. gas could hot 20 a gallon here in the US.

Bottom line, if you are NOT following the oil (which is the money) on this then you are completely lost and falling for the press release. Dont be a fool. this is about control of the land, which leads to control of the oil, which leads to massive wealth which leads to real actual power.

the irony is that isis is now selling oil on the black market for pennies on the dollar and still doing $50 million per month. ISIS are actually capitalists like us.

[TimRobbins]

middle east has 70% of the worlds oil reserves.

isis has control of about .1% of ME oil right now. and is on pace to do $600 million per year in profit. they are selling on the black market for pennies on the dollar and still raking it in.

ISIS has no real power right now because they are being sold to the rest of the world as local outlaws, gangsters, and hoodlums. But all they want is their land back...and their oil that goes with it. they cant get their land back because the opec oil compainies are proteced by powerful military forces on the big 6. Russia, US, germany, Brits, China, France whom all have a vested interest. Like any street thug with no real negotiating power, they have resorted to violence to instill fear. All they want is to be left alone to self govern...once they self govern the new government will take back control of their oil reserves like the saudis (50%) did in the 1950's. they will likley threaten to cut off supply...supply controls the price.

if they can get 20% of the MidEast oil, it is worth about $200 billion per year in profit at todays profit. Only the rothchilds and some saidi aramco oil, brit(BP) family oil, and norwegian family oil(Dutch royal schell) make more money. But if they did get control th eprice of oil would sky rocket...likely by a factor of 10 or more. gas could hot 20 a gallon here in the US.

Bottom line, if you are NOT following the oil (which is the money) on this then you are completely lost and falling for the press release. Dont be a fool. this is about control of the land, which leads to control of the oil, which leads to massive wealth which leads to real actual power.

the irony is that isis is now selling oil on the black market for pennies on the dollar and still doing $50 million per month. ISIS are actually capitalists like us.

Middle East doesn't have 70% of the world's oil reserves. That's pre-fracking and tar sands.

How are they going to get control of more oil? Syria has very little oil. Iraq's oil is in the South and that's heavily protected, so where is 20% going to come from? Are they going to take over Saudi? Iran?

You're out of touch. Arabs can no longer control the price of oil. Fracking changed the game. In fact, Oil is yesterday's game. Nobody cares about oil anymore. There's way too much of it and the world is using less and less every year.

I suggest you google for some other conspiracy theory because the one you're presenting here simply doesn't hold any water.

[art_barbie]

middle east has 70% of the worlds oil reserves.

isis has control of about .1% of ME oil right now. and is on pace to do $600 million per year in profit. they are selling on the black market for pennies on the dollar and still raking it in.

ISIS has no real power right now because they are being sold to the rest of the world as local outlaws, gangsters, and hoodlums. But all they want is their land back...and their oil that goes with it. they cant get their land back because the opec oil compainies are proteced by powerful military forces on the big 6. Russia, US, germany, Brits, China, France whom all have a vested interest. Like any street thug with no real negotiating power, they have resorted to violence to instill fear. All they want is to be left alone to self govern...once they self govern the new government will take back control of their oil reserves like the saudis (50%) did in the 1950's. they will likley threaten to cut off supply...supply controls the price.

if they can get 20% of the MidEast oil, it is worth about $200 billion per year in profit at todays profit. Only the rothchilds and some saidi aramco oil, brit(BP) family oil, and norwegian family oil(Dutch royal schell) make more money. But if they did get control th eprice of oil would sky rocket...likely by a factor of 10 or more. gas could hot 20 a gallon here in the US.

Bottom line, if you are NOT following the oil (which is the money) on this then you are completely lost and falling for the press release. Dont be a fool. this is about control of the land, which leads to control of the oil, which leads to massive wealth which leads to real actual power.

the irony is that isis is now selling oil on the black market for pennies on the dollar and still doing $50 million per month. ISIS are actually capitalists like us.

Middle East doesn't have 70% of the world's oil reserves. That's pre-fracking and tar sands.

How are they going to get control of more oil? Syria has very little oil. Iraq's oil is in the South and that's heavily protected, so where is 20% going to come from? Are they going to take over Saudi? Iran?

You're out of touch. Arabs can no longer control the price of oil. Fracking changed the game. In fact, Oil is yesterday's game. Nobody cares about oil anymore. There's way too much of it and the world is using less and less every year.

I suggest you google for some other conspiracy theory because the one you're presenting here simply doesn't hold any water.

total world consumption is steadily increasing and is pretty steady at 88,000 barrel per day. world population is expected to double by year 2035. Middle east oil revenues are estimated over 1 trillion annually.

its true that fracking has created some competition and dropped the price of oil over the past 1-2 years...but really?? OPEC oil revs is still around/above 1 trillion. But bottom line...the price of oil is determined by the supply(production).

but lets disregard that...am i to believe that you want me to believe that ISIS end game here is to scare me away from enjoyiing my $7 latte at my local starbucks? Or from running a marathon? Thats their end game?

One question. Why? Why the frick would they actually care about me being scarred to take a train ride in france or going to see a concert? as opposed to getting their hands on as much oil as possible and selling it for as much as possible when we already know they're doing 50 million per month by selling it for pennies on the dollar?

And yeah...why on earth would they not want to try to get into iran, iraq, and saudi?

coalition forces once took over iraq in about 8 days with something line 35,000 initial ground troops and support from 2 warships and 1 sub firing a total of about 75 mark-48 tomahawks and and only 80,000 tons of airborne bombs.

For reference sake russia just dropped around 75,000 tons in one day. yesterday.

Can isis get that strong? I think it can...and i think real government officials like putin are smart enough to fear it.

for the record...Putin hit their trucks that they used to transport the oil...Putin obviously sees their 50 million per month as a serious issue worth dealing with.

[SpinninHouse]

I'm not advocating a full scale US ground war in Syria, as it would be far too costly (both economically and, worse, in terms of loss of American lives). But I do believe limiting our military presence is creating instability in the region and depriving us of essential intel that we need to help prevent more attacks from happening.

It's time for Russia, France, the United States, and other countries through out the world to substantially increase our presence. Syria needs to be monitored, period. And we need a global coalition to do it. While ISIS can't be compared to the Nazi's in terms of military capabilities -- they require a similar amount of attention from the collective Free World.

ISIS attacks are occurring all through out the world. The more strong holds they secure in Syria, Iraq, and through out the ME -- the more at risk we are. The world has to intervene and prevent that from happening.

[TheSuzerain]

I'm not advocating a full scale US ground war in Syria, as it would be far too costly (both economically and, worse, in terms of loss of American lives). But I do believe limiting our military presence is creating instability in the region and depriving us of essential intel that we need to help prevent more attacks from happening.

It's time for Russia, France, the United States, and other countries through out the world to substantially increase our presence. Syria needs to be monitored, period. And we need a global coalition to do it. While ISIS can't be compared to the Nazi's in terms of military capabilities -- they require a similar amount of attention from the collective Free World.

ISIS attacks are occurring all through out the world. The more strong holds they secure in Syria, Iraq, and through out the ME -- the more at risk we are. The world has to intervene and prevent that from happening.

Obama wasn't kidding when he said they were contained.

They aren't securing more strongholds, they're losing them. Their borders have been shrinking for a while now.

[johnnyvann840]

Its about money. Oil and therefore money. ISIS is making about 50 million per month "illegally" selling crude oil..

You think ISIS is doing all this crazy stuff for $50M per month? Do you realize that's not even chump change? Heck, I'd gladly pay them $50M a month to put down their weapons and go away.

I realize people love conspiracy theories, but this one makes no sense whatsoever.

Thank you... and if anybody has started or got involved in wars for profit and oil (and also USING up as many weapons as possible in the process, that would be the USA- it's HUGE business... I know.. when I was an apps engineer, I sold mil-spec IC's and discretes back in the 80's and 90's, an 18 cent resistor could cost $300 dollars when it's mil-spec tested and going into a turbine engine or a missile guidance system-- and the level of corruption and wasted money at that level was crazy). $50M a month was peanuts then and it's peanuts now compared to the real war for profit that is occurring.

I'm as patriotic an American as you'll find and I love my country, but I'm not stupid and naive enough to deny the truth.

[Rerisen]

well i just lost a huge response...thank you realgm. So im not typing that again.

Succinclty suicide bombers are merely the jackass pawns. a mindless part of the masses...no different than your Donald Trump coat tail riding jackass down the street ready to go step on a grenade for virtually anything he is taught or told to believe in.

The 'pawns' are the ones doing all the killing. The ones that matter. If it wasn't for that ISIS having oil would not be any more concerning than Bashar Assad having it.

Applying modern capitalistic or cunsumerist motivations to these people is just about as opposite and wrong as it can be gotten. But many have a hard time understanding those truly different from them and fall back on forcing lazy rationalizations that would make sense to their own world view. Which is one big reason we can't make headway in this struggle.

Life in the sharia law enforced caliphate is spartan and austere, the imposition is that your life revolves around faith, not buying things and materialism. You get thrown in a cage for having a beer or cigarettes. Creating this kind of 7th century lifestyle is the end goal, what they need money and power as a practicality to achieve, not the other way around. Tens of thousands of foreigners are not going to bombed out Syria to risk their life in the hopes of getting rich. It's a movement, a sense of cultural identity and twisted pride, that draws them.

Money is also not why they mutlilate young girls, or why they force those they conquer to convert or die, they would take over territory and wealth far easier without committing atrocities. It's the ideology that makes them matter to us.

[johnnyvann840]

well i just lost a huge response...thank you realgm. So im not typing that again.

Succinclty suicide bombers are merely the jackass pawns. a mindless part of the masses...no different than your Donald Trump coat tail riding jackass down the street ready to go step on a grenade for virtually anything he is taught or told to believe in.

The 'pawns' are the ones doing all the killing. The ones that matter. If it wasn't for that ISIS having oil would not be any more concerning than Bashar Assad having it.

Applying modern capitalistic or cunsumerist motivations to these people is just about as opposite and wrong as it can be gotten. But many have a hard time understanding those truly different from them and fall back on forcing lazy rationalizations that would make sense to their own world view. Which is one big reason we can't make headway in this struggle.

Life in the sharia law enforced caliphate is spartan and austere, the imposition is that your life revolves around faith, not buying things and materialism. You get thrown in a cage for having a beer or cigarettes. Creating this kind of 7th century lifestyle is the end goal, what they need money and power as a practicality to achieve, not the other way around. Tens of thousands of foreigners are not going to bombed out Syria to risk their life in the hopes of getting rich. It's a movement, a sense of cultural identity and twisted pride, that draws them.

Money is also not why they mutlilate young girls, or why they force those they conquer to convert or die, they would take over territory and wealth far easier without committing atrocities. It's the ideology that makes them matter to us.

Good post Re.. people don't get it. The devout are willing to die... they want to. Their "religious leaders" tell them they will be martyred.. (and then there's the whole virgin orgy thing in the promised land.

Look at Bin Laden.. the man could have surrounded himself with luxury and women... and whatever he wanted.. but he lived in squalor in caves and slept on the ground most of his life. Even when he wasn;t being chased and hunted.. A child of privilege who chose something else.

Don't get me wrong.. I'm not glorifying the man.. he was a murderous evil POS.. I'm just saying that you have to marvel at the dedication to the "cause" that so many of them have. ..It's terrifying really. No pun .

Point being that money means nothing to most of them... it's just a way to fund their jihad.... do the "higher ups" maybe dip into the till and live a little?... probably.. but I think the truly devout majority think they are playing the long game. Brainwashed? yeah.. but that is what they believe. oh, and make no mistake. WE helped created a TON of them. and we've armed them and aided them. It really is a damn mess.

[RebuildaBulls]

In some ways Sharia Law to muslims is like the Amish to Christians (minus the violent and brutal punishments). I only know a little of Amish living but from what I hear its very medieval also, just not as brutal or degrading as Sharia can be but they follow the religion as close as it can be it also it sounds like

[art_barbie]

Its about money. Oil and therefore money. ISIS is making about 50 million per month "illegally" selling crude oil..

You think ISIS is doing all this crazy stuff for $50M per month? Do you realize that's not even chump change? Heck, I'd gladly pay them $50M a month to put down their weapons and go away.

I realize people love conspiracy theories, but this one makes no sense whatsoever.

Thank you... and if anybody has started or got involved in wars for profit and oil (and also USING up as many weapons as possible in the process, that would be the USA- it's HUGE business... I know.. when I was an apps engineer, I sold mil-spec IC's and discretes back in the 80's and 90's, an 18 cent resistor could cost $300 dollars when it's mil-spec tested and going into a turbine engine or a missile guidance system-- and the level of corruption and wasted money at that level was crazy). $50M a month was peanuts then and it's peanuts now compared to the real war for profit that is occurring.

I'm as patriotic an American as you'll find and I love my country, but I'm not stupid and naive enough to deny the truth.

almost everyone gets involved in war for profit or is paid to participate. Somehow...somewhere...some way...there is angle. Someone is portecting and asset and someone is after that same asset. And somehow someway...that asset is either Gold, oil, land, or stategic territory. Even just about every single "humanitarian" mission is generally paid for and funded by the country(s) being defended.

Gulf war 1 cost the US about 60 billion. Kuwait and neighboring Saudi arabia for example paid the US almost 52 billion of that 60 billion. The US also received favorable oil distribution after gulf war 1 at favorable pricing after coming to the aid of Kuwait and by proxy Saudi Arabia.

It doesn't matter whatever religious ideology the moronic followers of this terror cult believe...in the end thheir end game is control of the land/oil and sell for profit and live like Saddam Hussein. every one over there...the leadership's end game is to end up a dictator and sell oil for profit. it doesn't matter what their PR releases say now and what their pawns think they are doing...the end game is always the same...power and money. We have war after war after crusade after crusade...all fought under the guise of religion that in the end all come down to seeking control and power over a territory for the gold, money or oil. Every single time. I cant even believe this is up for debate. Its sad.

you guys are caught up in what the street thugs think they are doing out on 26th street peddling coke, molly, and weed and killing each other in the name of "territory" and not thinking about what the overall plan is for the drug cartels they work for. Most of these gangs are selling the same batch of drugs from the exact same shipment from the cartels just distributed to different areas of the city. what on earth does it matter what the street punk thinks he's doing out there?? same goes for the suicide bomber and any infantry the terror networks might have. These guys in most cases have no job and no mission in life...they are lost out there...so joining any stupid cult is better than sitting around and doing nothing. they got nothing to lose...they are young jack asses with lives going nowhere. they'll believe in anything.

[Rerisen]

You can't have a Caliphate without land. But the money is not the prime objective, they are true believers.

Doesn't really matter in the end why you think they are doing it, can't let nutjobs be mass murdering your citizens.

[kyrv]

In some ways Sharia Law to muslims is like the Amish to Christians (minus the violent and brutal punishments). I only know a little of Amish living but from what I hear its very medieval also, just not as brutal or degrading as Sharia can be but they follow the religion as close as it can be it also it sounds like

In more ways not alike. In some ways an orange is like a snail.

Really really unfair and misleading to try and join the Amish with sharia law.

[johnnyvann840]

you guys are caught up in what the street thugs think they are doing out on 26th street peddling coke, molly, and weed and killing each other in the name of "territory" and not thinking about what the overall plan is for the drug cartels they work for. Most of these gangs are selling the same batch of drugs from the exact same shipment from the cartels just distributed to different areas of the city. what on earth does it matter what the street punk thinks he's doing out there??

what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

It's a nice metaphor you try to make but the point is that jihadists are different. Most of them, even the ones at the very top (the ones running the cartels- ie. see the late Bin Laden) . They are not in it for the money.

[musiqsoulchild]

You can't have a Caliphate without land. But the money is not the prime objective, they are true believers.

Doesn't really matter in the end why you think they are doing it, can't let nutjobs be mass murdering your citizens.

They can be true believers ( the extreme Salafis for example) but even they know that without money and an administration that provides for the general population, Daeesh cannot be sustained.

That's just reality.

Taliban didn't lose to the U.S. because we carpet bombed them. They lost because they lost the public opinion among their followers who mostly didn't agree with 9-11.

Taliban coming back to power, inspite of US presence, is again not because of military or strategic superiority. It's because the drone attacks, the carpet bombing and the harsh economic conditions brought about by war made the Afghans side with Taliban again.

Ultimately, you can be a jackass and still rule 300 Million people as long as you keep them moderately happy, reasonable satisfied and far away from any political realities of the State.

Ask George Bush Jr.

[musiqsoulchild]

The point being - if you economically throttle ISIS - then it's game over VERY quickly.

Couple of things that happened that are of importance:
1) Anonymous has declared their own war on ISIS.
2) Companies - like the Telegram app used to coordinate the France attacks - have been dissuaded from servicing known ISIS lines.

That's how you throttle someone slowly. Chengiz Khan knew that this was the ONLY way to win territory in Asia/ Europe.

His large nomadic armies of horsemen stood no chance against the well fortified, trained armies within the walls of great Asian cities.

He won by siege. Almost each and every time. And by a show of brutality to pass the message along to the next big city to not resist his invasion.