Suns find themselves in a pickle: Moving Markieff Morris

[Christine-In-AZ]

I don't think they're in a pickle. Some thoughts-

-He doesn't wield enough power/intellect/chutzpah/cred to be a "cancer".

-He's played poorly & without much if any emotion...some purposed passive aggression in my mind, but I'm guessing his low-volume "tantrum" has about run its course. I'll bet we see his play at least approximate what we saw from him last year very soon. Good, but only rarely great. If it doesn't happen, his minutes will diminish.

-McDonough is not going to trade him for 50 cents on the dollar and that's all a trade would return this early. That's smart.

-Good chance he gets traded (guessing to the Wizards) before the deadline. If not, his contract numbers make him a good asset to use after the season, unless he continues to just phone it in all year...but he won't. Wanna bet me on that?

[kennydorglas]

- Put Kieff in a super sub role

- Inquire Portland about Meyers Leonard

[King4Day]

We're not mortgaging the future to rid ourselves of a reasonable contract despite his poor play. That's where the OP will get the most resistance IMO.

I haven't been able to see all games this year. Can someone chime in to say whether they think Kieff actually looks like he's not trying or is he just having a bad start to the year?

[Saberestar]

We're not mortgaging the future to rid ourselves of a reasonable contract despite his poor play. That's where the OP will get the most resistance IMO.

I haven't been able to see all games this year. Can someone chime in to say whether they think Kieff actually looks like he's not trying or is he just having a bad start to the year?

Just my opinion...
I think that he is playing like he has always played but slightly worse. Just that. He is not LeBron putting suddenly 12p and 5r per game....
His effort/intensity on the court has been the same since he has been in the league, he is not a high motor guy, so I think he is playing his game.

I would be happy to upgrade our PF position, but it seems that we don't have options out there. Aldridge was the target...what a shame.

[Cutter]

You're seriously suggesting we trade that Heat unprotected 1st rounder? To move Markieff for Ryan Anderson? That is beyond short sighted and, in my opinion, is even worse than trading that Lakers pick. That Miami pick could be an extremely high pick. Ryan Anderson is in the last year of his deal too. There's the possibility you'd be giving up that pick and Markieff for 5 months of Anderson.

The Suns aren't buying Markieff out. The Suns aren't taking back a big crappy contract just to move him. They'll wait until they get equal value. He's not playing well right now, but we're 11 games into the season. We shouldn't be myopic and do something rash that could seriously jeopardize the teams long term future.

No, I'm not suggesting we trade the Heat pick. I am painting scenarios as to what I believe the Suns could be forced to do the move Kieff. To move a negative contract, you have to include assets to entice other teams. I just gave an example of a trade that would include Kieff plus picks for Ryan Anderson.

[jcsunsfan]

You're seriously suggesting we trade that Heat unprotected 1st rounder? To move Markieff for Ryan Anderson? That is beyond short sighted and, in my opinion, is even worse than trading that Lakers pick. That Miami pick could be an extremely high pick. Ryan Anderson is in the last year of his deal too. There's the possibility you'd be giving up that pick and Markieff for 5 months of Anderson.

The Suns aren't buying Markieff out. The Suns aren't taking back a big crappy contract just to move him. They'll wait until they get equal value. He's not playing well right now, but we're 11 games into the season. We shouldn't be myopic and do something rash that could seriously jeopardize the teams long term future.

No, I'm not suggesting we trade the Heat pick. I am painting scenarios as to what I believe the Suns could be forced to do the move Kieff. To move a negative contract, you have to include assets to entice other teams. I just gave an example of a trade that would include Kieff plus picks for Ryan Anderson.

Even pouting, Kieff is not negative value. His contract is good. He is not injured, and he had already played at a fairly high level. Every GM knows this and they will believe he will be just fine with a change of scenery.

Might as well wait until the court case is resolved.


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[bwgood77]

Anderson is garbage. Just another version of Frye. Suns can get the exact same type of production if they just start Teletovich.

I don't think Telly or Leuer have too many games like this. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400828058

I'm not in love with Anderson, but I'd probably trade Markieff for him, especially if I knew we could re-sign him this summer (betting that we could).

But then again, we could keep Kieff or trade him for someone else and perhaps sign Anderson this summer if we wanted.

I'd love someone better, but they are not growing on trees. I'd still wait it out for a while though...at least until Dec 15th.

[jcsunsfan]

Anderson is garbage. Just another version of Frye. Suns can get the exact same type of production if they just start Teletovich.

I don't think Telly or Leuer have too many games like this. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400828058

I'm not in love with Anderson, but I'd probably trade Markieff for him, especially if I knew we could re-sign him this summer (betting that we could).

But then again, we could keep Kieff or trade him for someone else and perhaps sign Anderson this summer if we wanted.

I'd love someone better, but they are not growing on trees. I'd still wait it out for a while though...at least until Dec 15th.

The best way to move Kieff would be in a package with other desirable assets (Archie, PJ, Len, picks) for something good--not just to dump his salary.

[jcsunsfan]

We're not mortgaging the future to rid ourselves of a reasonable contract despite his poor play. That's where the OP will get the most resistance IMO.

I haven't been able to see all games this year. Can someone chime in to say whether they think Kieff actually looks like he's not trying or is he just having a bad start to the year?

Just my opinion...
I think that he is playing like he has always played but slightly worse. Just that. He is not LeBron putting suddenly 12p and 5r per game.....

The gripe about Kieff last year was all the techs. It might be that he is trying to control that. The fact that he is a ball stopper is nothing new. That is just his game, not his attitude.

I am just wondering if there is a bit of hyper scrutiny going on here--assuming he is dogging it or has a bad attitude, when we would have seen it as something different last year.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I think the mistake most people are making is assuming we need to get a PF back in the deal. We have two PFs on the roster, and another guy (Tucker) who can play at that spot. The league is moving to a more positionless game. We need to be thinking about what skills and attributes we need. I know we talk a lot about shooting, but Telly and Leuer can shoot. What we lack, IMO, is length and mobility on defense. Sure, one hopes that the player(s) we get back have the ability to play the 4, but a starting 4 is not what we need from a Keef trade. Because let’s face it – whomever we get will not be our starting 4 three years down the line (or at least, we should hope not!).

And for those who say Keef has negative value – please. Players like Jared Sullinger are looking for the max next summer. Say what you will about Keef, but he’s a starting power forward on a contract that will pay him less than 2/3 of what he would make on the market next summer. I think we can get a pick and a rotation player for him – and if we’re willing to include Archie, maybe a starter… like, say, Thad Young.

[Saberestar]

I think the mistake most people are making is assuming we need to get a PF back in the deal. We have two PFs on the roster, and another guy (Tucker) who can play at that spot. The league is moving to a more positionless game. We need to be thinking about what skills and attributes we need. I know we talk a lot about shooting, but T4elly and Leuer can shoot. What we lack, IMO, is length and mobility on defense. Sure, one hopes that the player(s) we get back have the ability to play the 4, but a starting 4 is not what we need from a Keef trade. Because let’s face it – whomever we get will not be our starting 4 three years down the line (or at least, we should hope not!).

And for those who say Keef has negative value – please. Players like Jared Sullinger are looking for the max next summer. Say what you will about Keef, but he’s a starting power forward on a contract that will pay him less than 2/3 of what he would make on the market next summer. I think we can get a pick and a rotation player for him – and if we’re willing to include Archie, maybe a starter… like, say, Thad Young.

I agree. I am the first one that want to trade Markieff for a good player with potential regardless of his position . Someone like McDermott, for example, can be good enough. We can play Warren and Tucker like starters and McDermott and Leuer / Teletovic like bench. If Warren gains strength he can be our PF in the future and McDermott our SF...the league are like that now.

BTW, I know that Chicago doesn't need Markieff, but it is an idea about trading for a player that is not a PF but can be great for our present and future.

[bwgood77]

I think the mistake most people are making is assuming we need to get a PF back in the deal. We have two PFs on the roster, and another guy (Tucker) who can play at that spot. The league is moving to a more positionless game. We need to be thinking about what skills and attributes we need. I know we talk a lot about shooting, but Telly and Leuer can shoot. What we lack, IMO, is length and mobility on defense. Sure, one hopes that the player(s) we get back have the ability to play the 4, but a starting 4 is not what we need from a Keef trade. Because let’s face it – whomever we get will not be our starting 4 three years down the line (or at least, we should hope not!).

And for those who say Keef has negative value – please. Players like Jared Sullinger are looking for the max next summer. Say what you will about Keef, but he’s a starting power forward on a contract that will pay him less than 2/3 of what he would make on the market next summer. I think we can get a pick and a rotation player for him – and if we’re willing to include Archie, maybe a starter… like, say, Thad Young.

Somebody has mentioned Thad Young a couple of times recently (maybe you). I mentioned him last year. I don't think he is better than Kieff (well, better than Kieff HAS been playing) but Brooklyn is one of those teams who may be just about ready to do anything.

You do make some good points...while reading your post I was thinking "well we are pretty well set at other positions" however, when TJ was out, we were really lacking a good backup 3, and if there is a pretty good chance we move on from PJ next year, perhaps we should target a 3, and maybe one that can play 4 in small ball lineups (somewhat like PJ can).

If Washington was desperate because they are on the fringes again I wonder if they would entertain something involving Otto Porter for Kieff.

[Qwigglez]

I think we could do a straight swap of Kieff for Ryan Anderson. The Pelicans need another go-to scorer, and Kieff can give them that to a certain degree. All the trade needs is Gentry's approval to tell the front office that he likes Kieff as he did coach him for two seasons.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If we move Keef for Anderson, we're essentially dumping his contract. We could just as easily sign Anderson next summer.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I think the mistake most people are making is assuming we need to get a PF back in the deal. We have two PFs on the roster, and another guy (Tucker) who can play at that spot. The league is moving to a more positionless game. We need to be thinking about what skills and attributes we need. I know we talk a lot about shooting, but Telly and Leuer can shoot. What we lack, IMO, is length and mobility on defense. Sure, one hopes that the player(s) we get back have the ability to play the 4, but a starting 4 is not what we need from a Keef trade. Because let’s face it – whomever we get will not be our starting 4 three years down the line (or at least, we should hope not!).

And for those who say Keef has negative value – please. Players like Jared Sullinger are looking for the max next summer. Say what you will about Keef, but he’s a starting power forward on a contract that will pay him less than 2/3 of what he would make on the market next summer. I think we can get a pick and a rotation player for him – and if we’re willing to include Archie, maybe a starter… like, say, Thad Young.

Somebody has mentioned Thad Young a couple of times recently (maybe you). I mentioned him last year. I don't think he is better than Kieff (well, better than Kieff HAS been playing) but Brooklyn is one of those teams who may be just about ready to do anything.

You do make some good points...while reading your post I was thinking "well we are pretty well set at other positions" however, when TJ was out, we were really lacking a good backup 3, and if there is a pretty good chance we move on from PJ next year, perhaps we should target a 3, and maybe one that can play 4 in small ball lineups (somewhat like PJ can).

If Washington was desperate because they are on the fringes again I wonder if they would entertain something involving Otto Porter for Kieff.

I have speculated that they might be willing to part with Oubre and pick in a deal for Keef, but if Humphries continues to hit threes, I'm not so sure. I'd try to move Oubre to a third team.

The Raps have two picks in next year's draft. We could try to snag one of those.

[bwgood77]

I just went through all the eastern conference teams, and the only ones that I think might consider it are Charlotte for Marvin Williams (but he's expiring and 29) or possibly Patrick Patterson.

That would be assuming the Suns are desperate to trade him though, and I don't think they are.

[jcsunsfan]

Thats why they are not trading him right now. Nothing worth it. Just wait for the trial to end.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

We're all pretty desperate to not have to watch Markieff play any more.

[RunDogGun]

I just went through all the eastern conference teams, and the only ones that I think might consider it are Charlotte for Marvin Williams (but he's expiring and 29) or possibly Patrick Patterson.

That would be assuming the Suns are desperate to trade him though, and I don't think they are.

Is there any chance to move him to Philly, with maybe a pick for Saric? We lose out a bit this season, but it could be a nice position for us next year.

Philly is having a rough start, and bringing in a hometown boy may improve things. Keiff's contract isn't too bad, and as long as the pick isn't something too great, we really wouldn't be losing out too much.

If that were to happen, either Leuer or Tele would really have to step up, and knock down shots.

[letsgosuns]

A lot of people have said how much better Marcus is on Detroit but how much better is he really? He is averaging 14.5 ppg and 6 rbs but he is playing 37.6 mpg. The more telling statistic is his bad shooting. 37.8% fg and 26.8% 3pts. That is awful.

Markieff's shooting is virtually the same as Marcus'. Markieff is shooting 36.6% fg and 26.9%. More terrible shooting.

This is what I have been saying all along about the Morris brothers. Forget everything they do or say off the court. They are not good players. They are both bench players at best. Markieff does one thing well and that is hit clutch shots down the stretch of games. He carved out his niche. But he does nothing else. Poor rebounder, extremely soft inside, slow, bad shooter, horrible attitude, low iq, bad influence on young players. Then add on the fact that he does not care about this team and is playing at half speed. It blows my mind why anyone still wants this guy around. I just hope McDonough is not making this a pride issue and refusing to trade him even at the detriment of the team.