11/22 LA Lakers [2-10] vs Portland Trailblazers [5-9] 6:30 PT Sun

[Tarik_shaq]

tank.

jaylen brown please.
ben simmons please.
brandon ingram please.
laurence frank please.

[Laker_Kid]

we dont even need to tank. we already suck as is.

[moonpie]

When you have Byron Scott as coach you are already tanking.

[Up-And-Coming]

I see this too. He is special and he will show it. I think this draft class was special, talent everywhere. 7 guys from the top 10 rookies over the past 3 years may probably be from this one year alone.

Guys, I was just trying to look at the situation with D'angelo in as unbiased and honest viewpoint as I could. I don't think he does anything that is actually tangible on the court well. If you want to argue that he has great "poise" which is intangible, then that's cool I guess. I just don't see anything "special" so far from him. I hope I'm wrong though.

I think it comes down to what specifically you're looking for him to do?... Honest question. From what i see he handles the ball, coordinates the offense well, rebounds really well for a guard. His defense isnt the greatest at this point but he's better than many of our other guards at this point. He has his moments as any other 19yr old would at this point...

But what specifically would you like to see him do that you feel would make a "special" player? (again, Im asking honestly)

I know it' still early, but I don't think D'angelo is going to be a star. He doesn't do anything above average, imho. Whenever he shoots the ball, I think it's going to miss (he's a poor jump shooter and he's not even a good free throw shooter for a guard). He's not a good three point shooter and doesn't get to the free throw line often.

He's not very fast and not very athletic (he can't get in front of his man consistently). He plays at a slow tempo and because he can't get in front of his defender consistently, and is a poor shooter, he becomes predictable and not a great option offensively.

Honestly, despite what a lot of people say, his passing is very predictable and overrated (he's not a point guard, imo). I have seen him throw many passes from bad angles that just land right into the opponents hands. I think it's because he can't get into the right spots on the floor due to his lack of foot speed.

However, I have been impressed with his rebounding and he is a slightly better defender than I expected. He does seem to be poised which is of course a great attribute to have.

Even though people are saying he is playing better as of late, I don't see anything "special". Look at past "star" guards, and for almost all of them you can tell from the get-go that they are supremely skilled in at least one aspect of the game. He's playing better, but I think a lot of it is because he was playing so poorly before. I apologize for being such a "negative nancy", I'm just venting. I hope I'm wrong, for the sake of the Laker's future. Maybe all he needs is a lot more time and experience??? It's just so far, I am not impressed with our 2nd pick.

[warrenpeace]

I know it' still early, but I don't think D'angelo is going to be a star. He doesn't do anything above average, imho. Whenever he shoots the ball, I think it's going to miss (he's a poor jump shooter and he's not even a good free throw shooter for a guard). He's not a good three point shooter and doesn't get to the free throw line often.

He's not very fast and not very athletic (he can't get in front of his man consistently). He plays at a slow tempo and because he can't get in front of his defender consistently, and is a poor shooter, he becomes predictable and not a great option offensively.

Honestly, despite what a lot of people say, his passing is very predictable and overrated (he's not a point guard, imo). I have seen him throw many passes from bad angles that just land right into the opponents hands. I think it's because he can't get into the right spots on the floor due to his lack of foot speed.

However, I have been impressed with his rebounding and he is a slightly better defender than I expected. He does seem to be poised which is of course a great attribute to have.

Even though people are saying he is playing better as of late, I don't see anything "special". Look at past "star" guards, and for almost all of them you can tell from the get-go that they are supremely skilled in at least one aspect of the game. He's playing better, but I think a lot of it is because he was playing so poorly before. I apologize for being such a "negative nancy", I'm just venting. I hope I'm wrong, for the sake of the Laker's future. Maybe all he needs is a lot more time and experience??? It's just so far, I am not impressed with our 2nd pick.

I agree 100 percent. I have not seen anything special about D'Angelo Russell. He is not a point guard, he is an overrated passer and I have yet to witness this "great vision". He is a willing passer, but he does not make his teammates better. He does not set-up his teammates or create easy buckets for them. I hope the Lakers are not sacrifice other players development by focusing on someone who has not shown anything special to be worthy of such sacrifice.

[lake_show]

Guys, I was just trying to look at the situation with D'angelo in as unbiased and honest viewpoint as I could. I don't think he does anything that is actually tangible on the court well. If you want to argue that he has great "poise" which is intangible, then that's cool I guess. I just don't see anything "special" so far from him. I hope I'm wrong though.

I think it comes down to what specifically you're looking for him to do?... Honest question. From what i see he handles the ball, coordinates the offense well, rebounds really well for a guard. His defense isnt the greatest at this point but he's better than many of our other guards at this point. He has his moments as any other 19yr old would at this point...

But what specifically would you like to see him do that you feel would make a "special" player? (again, Im asking honestly)

I know it' still early, but I don't think D'angelo is going to be a star. He doesn't do anything above average, imho. Whenever he shoots the ball, I think it's going to miss (he's a poor jump shooter and he's not even a good free throw shooter for a guard). He's not a good three point shooter and doesn't get to the free throw line often.

Edit: Anyone who tells you different

He's not very fast and not very athletic (he can't get in front of his man consistently). He plays at a slow tempo and because he can't get in front of his defender consistently, and is a poor shooter, he becomes predictable and not a great option offensively.

Honestly, despite what a lot of people say, his passing is very predictable and overrated (he's not a point guard, imo). I have seen him throw many passes from bad angles that just land right into the opponents hands. I think it's because he can't get into the right spots on the floor due to his lack of foot speed.

However, I have been impressed with his rebounding and he is a slightly better defender than I expected. He does seem to be poised which is of course a great attribute to have.

Even though people are saying he is playing better as of late, I don't see anything "special". Look at past "star" guards, and for almost all of them you can tell from the get-go that they are supremely skilled in at least one aspect of the game. He's playing better, but I think a lot of it is because he was playing so poorly before. I apologize for being such a "negative nancy", I'm just venting. I hope I'm wrong, for the sake of the Laker's future. Maybe all he needs is a lot more time and experience??? It's just so far, I am not impressed with our 2nd pick.

Could be you're thinking too much... He's shot 11 free throws and missed 3... It really is waaay too early to tell. His shooting really isnt that bad either. He's shooting 40% from the field. 45% from 2 and 33% from 3pt land. He needs some work on his 3 pointers but 33% isnt horrible, and he's money from the mid range area. By comparison a guy like Lou williams shoots 23% from 3... now thats horrible. He has had some wonky plays here and there but he's a kid learning the game. That's gonna happen. Especially when you're handeling the ball as much as he does. DLo is averaging 1.6 turnovers a game. In comparison Mudiay is averaging 4.4 turnovers a game right now but he's also getting acclimated to a much faster game. They both are.

I think the biggest thing about DLo is he's type of guard who could fill a stat sheet... AND that's extremely unique. Scorers are a dime a dozen. It's harder to find a guard who can facilitate and offense, passes well, shoots well, rebounds well, AND plays some semblance of D. He'll get better. Just be patient. Trust, this guys the real deal.

Edit: BTW anyone who tells you different Up-And-Coming just doesnt know what theyre looking at.

[warrenpeace]

DLo is averaging 1.6 turnovers a game. In comparison Mudiay is averaging 4.4 turnovers a game right now but he's also getting acclimated to a much faster game.

Mudiay is a also averaging 6.4 assist per game, while Russell is averaging 2.9. Of course Mudiay is going to average more TO, he's more aggressive, forcing the action, taking chances and creating for his teammates.

[Slava]

DLo is averaging 1.6 turnovers a game. In comparison Mudiay is averaging 4.4 turnovers a game right now but he's also getting acclimated to a much faster game.

Mudiay is a also averaging 6.4 assist per game, while Russell is averaging 2.9. Of course Mudiay is going to average more TO, he's more aggressive, forcing the action, taking chances and creating for his teammates.

Mudiay is blowing ass in every advanced metric there is to be seen. This is Tyreke vs Harden/Curry stuff again.

[lake_show]

DLo is averaging 1.6 turnovers a game. In comparison Mudiay is averaging 4.4 turnovers a game right now but he's also getting acclimated to a much faster game.

Mudiay is a also averaging 6.4 assist per game, while Russell is averaging 2.9. Of course Mudiay is going to average more TO, he's more aggressive, forcing the action, taking chances and creating for his teammates.

I wasn't making a DLo vs Mudiay comparison. I was making a DLo AND Mudiay comparison.

Point is all rookies are going to have their awkward moments this year. It's expected. I doubt Mudiay is gonna average 4 turnovers for his career. Or at least I hope not, that's a lot.

[Kobe_for_3]

Oh yeah, Kobe's D was on par with his long ball all night.

I would agree %100! I know he talks about how much he studies film, do you think KOBE see what we see. His defense has gotten bad over the years but most of last nights was a joke! His lack of effort is what I find most disappointing.

[madmaxmedia]

If they both become stars or they both suck, the comparisons won't matter. I think you just have to focus on each player individually and forget about the other draft picks.

The only obvious thing with Russell is that it's going to take time before we can evaluate him. I don't think he's stood out in any way which is not a good sign perhaps, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions until end of year (predictions are another thing of course.)

We are at the point right now where every game is an opportunity to write him off or praise him as being special. Just because he got the ball stolen on a play doesn't mean he's too slow to play in the NBA, just because he made on nifty drive to the hoop doesn't mean he has special skills at penetrating to basket.

[The Prodigy]

I knew this team would be garbage for awhile. You just don't start that much youth and succeed. And then throw
Anyhow, all said, yes it sucks to lose, but again, slowly but surely, everyone is getting better.
Is Russell really 6'5'? He sure doesn't look it. Maybe wearing shoes, and then also boots over those shoes.

Exactly...

Still surprised at how many Laker fans thought this was going to be anything but ugly for the first two or three months. It had no choice but to be ugly but the last few games have looked markedly better, sure still losing but not looking horrible lost while doing it.. The thing they do that I like is they don't quit, they screw up but they keep trying and that's what will get the over the hump in the long run


I keep wondering the same thing, Russell doesn't look 6'5'' but then you see him next to other guys and he doesn't look short (comparatively) either... he kind of dribbles and runs in a perpetual squat...lol

I think some of us are more upset at the source of the ugliness than at the ugliness itself.

We can handle ugliness in the from of our young guys taking chances, failing and growing.

However, when it's in the form of Byron Scott ineptitude, Kobe/Lou hero ball and Brandon Bass futility, the ugliness is just pointless.

[Levity]

He is not a point guard, he is an overrated passer and I have yet to witness this "great vision".

really? i feel thats the only thing apparent in him game, at the moment. he can thread that needle better than most of the league, and at only 19. he's patient, and finds the break down in the defense when making passes, and generally hits his man in the perfect place. but what he does need to do away with is the flashiness and the carelessness thats comes with it, which often times leads to turnovers.

hes not a pick and roll PG yet. but theres a couple reasons for that. hes not aggressive coming off the pick. hes often times looking for the mid range pull up or the pop. his speed (or lack there of it) is often times overstated. he can certainly beat his man once he learns to play full throttle off the pick. he doesnt do that yet and i think its because hes over thinking everything and maybe that has do with the predraft hype saying hes the best PG in the draft; hes trying to live up to that expectation

2nd reason hes not a good pnr PG yet is simple... we have no pick and roll bigs on this team. no one knows how to roll hard to the basket. had we kept boozer around, i feel russel would average at least 1-2 more assists with him.

[what would jack bauer do?]

DLo is averaging 1.6 turnovers a game. In comparison Mudiay is averaging 4.4 turnovers a game right now but he's also getting acclimated to a much faster game.

Mudiay is a also averaging 6.4 assist per game, while Russell is averaging 2.9. Of course Mudiay is going to average more TO, he's more aggressive, forcing the action, taking chances and creating for his teammates.

Mudiay is blowing ass in every advanced metric there is to be seen. This is Tyreke vs Harden/Curry stuff again.

Unfortunately could more likely be Westbrook vs Mayo/Lin sort of stuff too.... Westbrook did shoot 39.8% his rookie year fellas and particularly in november of his rookie year he shot 34% from the field... I think with the season being less than 30 days old you really have to disregard all the analytics garbage and have to really use the eye test until we get a bigger sample size. Defensively the gap between D'angelo and Mudiay is already apparent. D'angelo may be nice as a combo guard/iso scorer, but unfortunately we could've done better in the draft with porzingis and possibly with mudiay.

[Slava]

Mudiay is a also averaging 6.4 assist per game, while Russell is averaging 2.9. Of course Mudiay is going to average more TO, he's more aggressive, forcing the action, taking chances and creating for his teammates.

Mudiay is blowing ass in every advanced metric there is to be seen. This is Tyreke vs Harden/Curry stuff again.

Unfortunately could more likely be Westbrook vs Mayo/Lin sort of stuff too.... Westbrook did shoot 39.8% his rookie year fellas and particularly in november of his rookie year he shot 34% from the field... I think with the season being less than 30 days old you really have to disregard all the analytics garbage and have to really use the eye test until we get a bigger sample size. Defensively the gap between D'angelo and Mudiay is already apparent. D'angelo may be nice as a combo guard/iso scorer, but unfortunately we could've done better in the draft with porzingis and possibly with mudiay.

Westbrook is a freak athlete, Mudiay is not. Like I said in the general board there's not one thing that is truly extraordinary about him. He is a nice drive and dish player who can run the pick and roll but he's not tidy at doing either. His shot is not exceptional like Lillard. He has speed but he is not elite at it like Rose, Wall etc and he is not the athlete Westrbook or Bledsoe is.

Like most other smaller guys he could be a good guard in a different era but right now the PG position is so deep that unless a player sets himself apart, he will be average.

Porzingis, I agree but Mudiay, nope.

[what would jack bauer do?]

Mudiay is blowing ass in every advanced metric there is to be seen. This is Tyreke vs Harden/Curry stuff again.

Unfortunately could more likely be Westbrook vs Mayo/Lin sort of stuff too.... Westbrook did shoot 39.8% his rookie year fellas and particularly in november of his rookie year he shot 34% from the field... I think with the season being less than 30 days old you really have to disregard all the analytics garbage and have to really use the eye test until we get a bigger sample size. Defensively the gap between D'angelo and Mudiay is already apparent. D'angelo may be nice as a combo guard/iso scorer, but unfortunately we could've done better in the draft with porzingis and possibly with mudiay.

Westbrook is a freak athlete, Mudiay is not. Like I said in the general board there's not one thing that is truly extraordinary about him. He is a nice drive and dish player who can run the pick and roll but he's not tidy at doing either. His shot is not exceptional like Lillard. He has speed but he is not elite at it like Rose, Wall etc and he is not the athlete Westrbook or Bledsoe is.

Like most other smaller guys he could be a good guard in a different era but right now the PG position is so deep that unless a player sets himself apart, he will be average.

Porzingis, I agree but Mudiay, nope.

I dunno man.. just watching D'angelo play against Bledsoe and Knight he looked completely outclassed. Watching Mudiay as a rookie go toe to toe with these guys just 4 days later was real impressive. I think what will make mudiay special a couple years from now is his athleticism combined with his size. He's 6'5" 200lbs and defensively can stick with the speedy pg's in the nba. Once he's more acclimated to NBA defenses he's going to be too aggressive towards the rim to shoot below 40%.

It's premature to write off either D'angelo or Mudiay at this point though with the season being only 26 days old. To insist that either player won't improve in either their ability to lead a team or to improve their game is foolish. I'm not saying mudiay is the next westbrook or wade, but just to prove that you can still be a superstar even without elite 3pt shooting I gotta bring up that westbrook has shot below 30% 3 times in his career and wade has done it 8 out of his 12 years.

[Up-And-Coming]

Mudiay is blowing ass in every advanced metric there is to be seen. This is Tyreke vs Harden/Curry stuff again.

Unfortunately could more likely be Westbrook vs Mayo/Lin sort of stuff too.... Westbrook did shoot 39.8% his rookie year fellas and particularly in november of his rookie year he shot 34% from the field... I think with the season being less than 30 days old you really have to disregard all the analytics garbage and have to really use the eye test until we get a bigger sample size. Defensively the gap between D'angelo and Mudiay is already apparent. D'angelo may be nice as a combo guard/iso scorer, but unfortunately we could've done better in the draft with porzingis and possibly with mudiay.

Westbrook is a freak athlete, Mudiay is not. Like I said in the general board there's not one thing that is truly extraordinary about him. He is a nice drive and dish player who can run the pick and roll but he's not tidy at doing either. His shot is not exceptional like Lillard. He has speed but he is not elite at it like Rose, Wall etc and he is not the athlete Westrbook or Bledsoe is.

Like most other smaller guys he could be a good guard in a different era but right now the PG position is so deep that unless a player sets himself apart, he will be average.

Porzingis, I agree but Mudiay, nope.

I agree on your analysis of Mudiay. For the record, I don't understand the Mudiay hype either. I have not been impressed with his play. He is averaging an extraordinary amount of turnovers and I think he is putting up the numbers he's been putting up because of the free reign he has in Denver. Mudiay is also a poor jump shooter, not as athletic as people think and a poor free throw shooter.

If there is anyone we should have picked with the 2nd pick instead of D'angelo, I think it should have been Kristaps Porzingis (at least from what I've seen so far).