Game 14: Phoenix Suns (7-6) @ San Antonio Spurs (10-3)

[Cutter]

No need to panic just yet.

2013-14 the Suns started 7-7 in their first 14 games. We went on to win 48 wins that year and miss the playoffs by 1 game.

This year the Suns start 7-7 in their first 14 games. Will we go to the playoffs? We'll see. We have a very young team and are developing some nice young players in Warren, Len and Booker (who started tonight) while still being competitive.

We have a wayward son in Markieff, who might work his way back into our good graces or get traded at the deadline. Either way, if he starts playing well again and we pair him with Bledsoe and Knight we will have a very competitive team.

[bwgood77]

bottom line is this team is so inconsistent. You will not go far as a club being inconsistent...

Oh well, hello .500 season and no playoffs and a 12-15 pick.

To me, I enjoy watching this team, and this team has shown me some nice things and some nice fight this year. Also, I'd love to make the playoffs, and for me, I actually would probably be almost as happy missing the playoffs and getting another lottery pick as opposed to getting swept by the Warriors in the first round. I don't have super high expectations for this team, so right now, I don't feel so bad. I kind of expect us to be a few games under 500 after the next 8 games, so if/when that happens, it won't change how I feel. If we do better than that, and remain 500 at that point, I will feel pretty good about where we are at that point.

The thing is, we did blow it up and got rid of our entire team except for a couple players since McD came on, and replaced them with youth.

The 12-15th picks in the NBA are just so "meh". There is a chance (although rare) that you could catch lightening in a bottle but most likely not. I just have not been excited about this team for a long time and I wish that could change.

Maybe, but I actually like Booker and Warren. I don't think of them as meh...or Kawhi Leonard...don't think of him as meh either. We all want a competitive team. But even if we make the playoffs as an 8th seed and get like the 17th pick and get swept, are you more excited about that prospect? Not saying I don't want to make the playoffs, but if you can develop a consistent player development system, front office making good picks, etc, then you can slowly work or way up. For whatever reason, some expect us to suddenly be super competitive and a certain playoff team, when we have so many interchanging parts, it's tougher to compete with seasoned teams.

[blacksun]

I guess I am just looking at the overall big picture.

1. Hornacek is barely playing Len and Goodwin at all. Goodwin had those two good games when he got real playing time of 29 and 25 minutes. Since then he has played a total of 17 minutes in four games. I am not going to pretend I know why. It does not matter. I am not the coach.

2. The Suns are playing Tucker huge minutes. He is blocking other players' development. All he does is hustle but he has virtually no talent. Everyone says he is so important to the team and I just laugh. Important to what team? A lottery team every year? C'mon.

3. The Suns are still going forward with an undersized dual point guard lineup. Are they playing well this year? Absolutely. Do I think it is a championship caliber foundation? No.

4. Markieff is still on the team. No need to explain on this one.

5. Are any of the Suns young players capable of superstardom? Who knows. But so many people on here are willing to give up virtually the entire team for DeMarcus Cousins, so how high on these young players can you truly be. Obviously not that high when I see trade suggestions of Len, Goodwin, Markieff, Warren, and two first round picks for Cousins. So honestly, if that is how some of you feel, why would you expect me to buy the "this Suns team is loaded with youth" line. You guys are willing to trade anyone in a split second for a superstar.

1. My guess is hes rotating and giving everyone a chance on that two guard spot. If you recall he played Weems a lot to start the season, then Goodwin, then now Booker. Im guessing well see a more regular rotation soon. Hopefully more Booker that the other two.

2. Im actually okay with it. Its not as if Warren is not getting minutes. To me Warren will start as soon as he can defend, and he cant yet.

3. But Knight isnt really a point guard. Hes an undersized two guard. I take it your concern about is ball movement and size. Not really concerned about either since weve seen good ball movement throughout the season and sizewise, we havent really been punished for it and weve been playing the dual pg system for three years now.

4. Yeah, wouldnt you say tonight is a good start in terms of building up his trade value?

5. I'd say Booker, Knight and Bledsoe. The others id definitely trade for a Demarcus Cousins type player.

[bwgood77]

I guess I am just looking at the overall big picture.

1. Hornacek is barely playing Len and Goodwin at all. Goodwin had those two good games when he got real playing time of 29 and 25 minutes. Since then he has played a total of 17 minutes in four games. I am not going to pretend I know why. It does not matter. I am not the coach.

2. The Suns are playing Tucker huge minutes. He is blocking other players' development. All he does is hustle but he has virtually no talent. Everyone says he is so important to the team and I just laugh. Important to what team? A lottery team every year? C'mon.

3. The Suns are still going forward with an undersized dual point guard lineup. Are they playing well this year? Absolutely. Do I think it is a championship caliber foundation? No.

4. Markieff is still on the team. No need to explain on this one.

5. Are any of the Suns young players capable of superstardom? Who knows. But so many people on here are willing to give up virtually the entire team for DeMarcus Cousins, so how high on these young players can you truly be. Obviously not that high when I see trade suggestions of Len, Goodwin, Markieff, Warren, and two first round picks for Cousins. So honestly, if that is how some of you feel, why would you expect me to buy the "this Suns team is loaded with youth" line. You guys are willing to trade anyone in a split second for a superstar.

1. My guess is hes rotating and giving everyone a chance on that two guard spot. If you recall he played Weems a lot to start the season, then Goodwin, then now Booker. Im guessing well see a more regular rotation soon. Hopefully more Booker that the other two.

2. Im actually okay with it. Its not as if Warren is not getting minutes. To me Warren will start as soon as he can defend, and he cant yet.

3. But Knight isnt really a point guard. Hes an undersized two guard. I take it your concern about is ball movement and size. Not really concerned about either since weve seen good ball movement throughout the season and sizewise, we havent really been punished for it and weve been playing the dual pg system for three years now.

4. Yeah, wouldnt you say tonight is a good start in terms of building up his trade value?

5. I'd say Booker, Knight and Bledsoe. The others id definitely trade for a Demarcus Cousins type player.

Solid answers. People complained about Booker not playing as well as Archie, and with Weems rough start, him continuing to play. So what does Horny do? Give Archie a chance. What does he do next? Give Booker big time minutes for a rookie. Weems hasn't played. If anyone wants to play Archie over Booker I don't know what to tell them. Kieff was a bright spot tonight...FINALLY.

[LukasBMW]

No need to panic!

1. 2nd night of a back to back.

2. Played a top 5 team...maybe even a top 3 team.

3. We were missing our best player

4. The Spurs are just unreal. Suffocating defense, non stop hustle, incredibly intelligent.



The one thing that this game did expose is our COMPLETE LACK OF SCORING IN THE PAINT. We need more easy baskets and points in the paint. Period. Bledsoe is the only guy on our team who can get to the rim consistently. We really need a guy who can score on the block. Yes, Keef did this a bit for us tonight, but there is no way we ever win a playoff series without a post scorer.

[letsgosuns]

Look at the starting small forward comparison tonight:

Tucker: 0 pts, 2 rbs, 1 ast, 3 stl, 0 blk, 3 to, 2 fouls, 30 minutes, 0-5 fg

Leonard: 24 pts, 13 rbs, 4 ast, 4 stl, 1 blk, 3 to, 1 foul, 37 minutes, 11-18 fg

Suns sure need Tucker alright. Those incredible stats of 0 points and 2 rebounds in 30 minutes make waves across the entire NBA. Hahaha. Seriously guys, as much as I hate Markieff, I admit that the guy can score well when he plays like he cares. But Tucker? How can you have a guy on your team start at the small forward with stats like that. And his defense is not that great because I see him get lit up all the time.

I am not saying Tucker should equal Leonard. Although I am saying that Tucker is one of the worst starting small forwards in the NBA. Just look at this list: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf Warren is ranked 15. Tucker is ranked 39. Am I missing something? Has Tucker led the Suns to 3 straight championships with his amazing play? Why can't the Suns just move on from Tucker.

[grumpysaddle]

This board is still ridiculous.


....................

[SunsRback4Good]

On most teams Tucker would be coming off the bench but on ours he needs to start. He brings toughness, defense and energy that we desperately need. I mean who are we going to start instead of him? The only two guys we can insert for him are Warren or Teletovic. Warren is still young and although he'll score more but won't contribute on defense like Tucker does. As for Teletovic, he's like Channing Frye if the 3's go he's a heck of a player but if it doesn't we are in trouble and his defense is nowhere near Tucker's or Warrens. If Suns had a better player at the 3 position our bench would give us a huge boost with Tucker, Warren, Teli, Booker & Leuer. I believe we need to be patient and see what we can get at draft deadline. And even if Kieff had a monster breakout gave, I still want him gone as one game doesn't equal 12 or 15 horrid games. I believe we trade him by deadline and get a few decent players that will be a big part of us making the 7th or 8th seed in the playoffs.

[bwgood77]

Look at the starting small forward comparison tonight:

Tucker: 0 pts, 2 rbs, 1 ast, 3 stl, 0 blk, 3 to, 2 fouls, 30 minutes, 0-5 fg

Leonard: 24 pts, 13 rbs, 4 ast, 4 stl, 1 blk, 3 to, 1 foul, 37 minutes, 11-18 fg

Suns sure need Tucker alright. Those incredible stats of 0 points and 2 rebounds in 30 minutes make waves across the entire NBA. Hahaha. Seriously guys, as much as I hate Markieff, I admit that the guy can score well when he plays like he cares. But Tucker? How can you have a guy on your team start at the small forward with stats like that. And his defense is not that great because I see him get lit up all the time.

I am not saying Tucker should equal Leonard. Although I am saying that Tucker is one of the worst starting small forwards in the NBA. Just look at this list: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf Warren is ranked 15. Tucker is ranked 39. Am I missing something? Has Tucker led the Suns to 3 straight championships with his amazing play? Why can't the Suns just move on from Tucker.

Oh, I didn't realize you thought we had him in for his offense. PER is based on offense for the most part. He is more like a Bowen or Tony Allen type guy. He sets the tone for our energy. I don't think we need him on the team after this year and I think Warren could potentially start soon, but it appears you don't watch the games and just show up with box score commentary, and in that case, it's tough to have a discussion. If you watched the games with a somewhat open mind, you would be pretty impressed with Tucker this year.

[grumpysaddle]

But seriously... the Suns were missing their best player who has been absolutely killing it, against the Spurs... in San Antonio... NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. Knight struggled hard tonight, but the Spurms played ridiculous perimeter defense. Goes to show how important it is that Bledsoe AND Knight are healthy all year. Together they are hard to deal with, but a smart defensive team like the Spurs will easily contain them when there's only one of them.

I will say that Hornacek's rotations have been super weird. It's like he keeps going away from what was working for the Suns early in the season. Suns don't have to play small ball anymore, it was going well with the big guys in there, but there is a ton of time with neither Chandler or Len in. This might be directly correlated to Kieff also being back. Two guys in the lane/midrange clogs things up too much for the Bledsoe/Knight combo, but tonight, there should have been one of them on the floor at all times. Kieff had a great single player game, but it's obvious at this point that his game does not fit what the Suns are trying to do. They have to play him if he's healthy, but I kind of wish he'd tweak something again to see if the success the Suns had without him was an anomaly.

[bwgood77]

This board is still ridiculous.


....................

Yeah, I guess your broken record posts were pretty much all in like one night when we re-signed Shannon Brown. Speaking of that, the fact that we were re-signing guys like that, signing Beasley, Turkoglu, Childress, Warrick, drafting Marshall...the list goes on...it's somewhat amazing some are so disenchanted with the players we have now. For obvious reasons you can be unhappy we have Markieff, but outside of that, it blows my mind sometimes after those years. I'm so much more vested than I was 3-4 years ago.

[Sunsss]

Look at the starting small forward comparison tonight:

Tucker: 0 pts, 2 rbs, 1 ast, 3 stl, 0 blk, 3 to, 2 fouls, 30 minutes, 0-5 fg

Leonard: 24 pts, 13 rbs, 4 ast, 4 stl, 1 blk, 3 to, 1 foul, 37 minutes, 11-18 fg

Suns sure need Tucker alright. Those incredible stats of 0 points and 2 rebounds in 30 minutes make waves across the entire NBA. Hahaha. Seriously guys, as much as I hate Markieff, I admit that the guy can score well when he plays like he cares. But Tucker? How can you have a guy on your team start at the small forward with stats like that. And his defense is not that great because I see him get lit up all the time.

I am not saying Tucker should equal Leonard. Although I am saying that Tucker is one of the worst starting small forwards in the NBA. Just look at this list: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf Warren is ranked 15. Tucker is ranked 39. Am I missing something? Has Tucker led the Suns to 3 straight championships with his amazing play? Why can't the Suns just move on from Tucker.

Oh, I didn't realize you thought we had him in for his offense. PER is based on offense for the most part. He is more like a Bowen or Tony Allen type guy. He sets the tone for our energy. I don't think we need him on the team after this year and I think Warren could potentially start soon, but it appears you don't watch the games and just show up with box score commentary, and in that case, it's tough to have a discussion. If you watched the games with a somewhat open mind, you would be pretty impressed with Tucker this year.

PJ is the only guy who can slow down anyone on the perimeter, but we're reading boxscore analysis of how he can't score much here.

[SunsRback4Good]

Look at the starting small forward comparison tonight:

Tucker: 0 pts, 2 rbs, 1 ast, 3 stl, 0 blk, 3 to, 2 fouls, 30 minutes, 0-5 fg

Leonard: 24 pts, 13 rbs, 4 ast, 4 stl, 1 blk, 3 to, 1 foul, 37 minutes, 11-18 fg

Suns sure need Tucker alright. Those incredible stats of 0 points and 2 rebounds in 30 minutes make waves across the entire NBA. Hahaha. Seriously guys, as much as I hate Markieff, I admit that the guy can score well when he plays like he cares. But Tucker? How can you have a guy on your team start at the small forward with stats like that. And his defense is not that great because I see him get lit up all the time.

I am not saying Tucker should equal Leonard. Although I am saying that Tucker is one of the worst starting small forwards in the NBA. Just look at this list: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf Warren is ranked 15. Tucker is ranked 39. Am I missing something? Has Tucker led the Suns to 3 straight championships with his amazing play? Why can't the Suns just move on from Tucker.

Oh, I didn't realize you thought we had him in for his offense. PER is based on offense for the most part. He is more like a Bowen or Tony Allen type guy. He sets the tone for our energy. I don't think we need him on the team after this year and I think Warren could potentially start soon, but it appears you don't watch the games and just show up with box score commentary, and in that case, it's tough to have a discussion. If you watched the games with a somewhat open mind, you would be pretty impressed with Tucker this year.

Seriously, it's like if a player doesn't constantly score in double digits he should be off this team immediately. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having players like a Bruce Bowen, Tony Allen that do all the dirty work that 95% of NBA players won't do. Same reason why every team should have a Lou Amundson type player that gets the crowd going and does all the little things coming off the bench. We sure didn't have a problem with Lou when he played in Phoenix mainly because he was surrounded by great bench players but if he wasn't I bet most here would want him gone.

[grumpysaddle]

Look at the starting small forward comparison tonight:

Tucker: 0 pts, 2 rbs, 1 ast, 3 stl, 0 blk, 3 to, 2 fouls, 30 minutes, 0-5 fg

Leonard: 24 pts, 13 rbs, 4 ast, 4 stl, 1 blk, 3 to, 1 foul, 37 minutes, 11-18 fg

Suns sure need Tucker alright. Those incredible stats of 0 points and 2 rebounds in 30 minutes make waves across the entire NBA. Hahaha. Seriously guys, as much as I hate Markieff, I admit that the guy can score well when he plays like he cares. But Tucker? How can you have a guy on your team start at the small forward with stats like that. And his defense is not that great because I see him get lit up all the time.

I am not saying Tucker should equal Leonard. Although I am saying that Tucker is one of the worst starting small forwards in the NBA. Just look at this list: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf Warren is ranked 15. Tucker is ranked 39. Am I missing something? Has Tucker led the Suns to 3 straight championships with his amazing play? Why can't the Suns just move on from Tucker.

Oh, I didn't realize you thought we had him in for his offense. PER is based on offense for the most part. He is more like a Bowen or Tony Allen type guy. He sets the tone for our energy. I don't think we need him on the team after this year and I think Warren could potentially start soon, but it appears you don't watch the games and just show up with box score commentary, and in that case, it's tough to have a discussion. If you watched the games with a somewhat open mind, you would be pretty impressed with Tucker this year.

PJ is the only guy who can slow down anyone on the perimeter, but we're reading boxscore analysis of how he can't score much here.

I wish people would just stop quoting him. He's a broken record. His only argument is players not scoring points. And then vomiting up broken records.

[bwgood77]

Look at the starting small forward comparison tonight:

Tucker: 0 pts, 2 rbs, 1 ast, 3 stl, 0 blk, 3 to, 2 fouls, 30 minutes, 0-5 fg

Leonard: 24 pts, 13 rbs, 4 ast, 4 stl, 1 blk, 3 to, 1 foul, 37 minutes, 11-18 fg

Suns sure need Tucker alright. Those incredible stats of 0 points and 2 rebounds in 30 minutes make waves across the entire NBA. Hahaha. Seriously guys, as much as I hate Markieff, I admit that the guy can score well when he plays like he cares. But Tucker? How can you have a guy on your team start at the small forward with stats like that. And his defense is not that great because I see him get lit up all the time.

I am not saying Tucker should equal Leonard. Although I am saying that Tucker is one of the worst starting small forwards in the NBA. Just look at this list: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf Warren is ranked 15. Tucker is ranked 39. Am I missing something? Has Tucker led the Suns to 3 straight championships with his amazing play? Why can't the Suns just move on from Tucker.

Oh, I didn't realize you thought we had him in for his offense. PER is based on offense for the most part. He is more like a Bowen or Tony Allen type guy. He sets the tone for our energy. I don't think we need him on the team after this year and I think Warren could potentially start soon, but it appears you don't watch the games and just show up with box score commentary, and in that case, it's tough to have a discussion. If you watched the games with a somewhat open mind, you would be pretty impressed with Tucker this year.

PJ is the only guy who can slow down anyone on the perimeter, but we're reading boxscore analysis of how he can't score much here.

Well typically we don't need his scoring, but having said that, he has hit some nice 3s and also had some nice moves around the basket in other games that surprised me. One bad game against Kawhi, who is a great defender, and without a good assist guy to get him going offensively isn't that big of a deal to me. Obviously if you like offense more than defense you want Warren. But of course when we don't have defense, then people blame the coach, even if they were pining for Warren to start.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

Oh, I didn't realize you thought we had him in for his offense. PER is based on offense for the most part. He is more like a Bowen or Tony Allen type guy. He sets the tone for our energy. I don't think we need him on the team after this year and I think Warren could potentially start soon, but it appears you don't watch the games and just show up with box score commentary, and in that case, it's tough to have a discussion. If you watched the games with a somewhat open mind, you would be pretty impressed with Tucker this year.

PJ is the only guy who can slow down anyone on the perimeter, but we're reading boxscore analysis of how he can't score much here.

I wish people would just stop quoting him. He's a broken record. His only argument is players not scoring points. And then vomiting up broken records.

Probably a good idea. It almost seems like someone trolling Suns fans for reactions who isn't really a Suns fan. When the most negative person on the forum has the user id letsgosuns it could be an undercover Spurs fan. And then rubbing in Kawhi's stats vs PJ's

[SunsRback4Good]

Look at the starting small forward comparison tonight:

Tucker: 0 pts, 2 rbs, 1 ast, 3 stl, 0 blk, 3 to, 2 fouls, 30 minutes, 0-5 fg

Leonard: 24 pts, 13 rbs, 4 ast, 4 stl, 1 blk, 3 to, 1 foul, 37 minutes, 11-18 fg

Suns sure need Tucker alright. Those incredible stats of 0 points and 2 rebounds in 30 minutes make waves across the entire NBA. Hahaha. Seriously guys, as much as I hate Markieff, I admit that the guy can score well when he plays like he cares. But Tucker? How can you have a guy on your team start at the small forward with stats like that. And his defense is not that great because I see him get lit up all the time.

I am not saying Tucker should equal Leonard. Although I am saying that Tucker is one of the worst starting small forwards in the NBA. Just look at this list: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sf Warren is ranked 15. Tucker is ranked 39. Am I missing something? Has Tucker led the Suns to 3 straight championships with his amazing play? Why can't the Suns just move on from Tucker.

Why not attack Chandler but instead going against PJ? In Tyson's last 3 games he has combined for just 4 point and he is only 3 years older then PJ.

[NTB]

It is sorta conspiracy theory but did Markieff play good because we would lose this game without Bledsoe anyway? Is he still dogging it?

[Funky Tut]

I know we are trying to moral loss losing to SA without our best player but ya'll forget we got beat last night by a NO club that has only 2 wins already?

[MrMiyagi]

I know we are trying to moral loss losing to SA without our best player but ya'll forget we got beat last night by a NO club that has only 2 wins already?

Which, in my book, would be our only bad loss this season, but hey use it as damning evidence to our mediocrity.