Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

[Ruzious]

Any ideas on this roster exemption the Wizards are applying for to fill Webster's spot?


I was thinking David Stockton could be worth picking up. But Henry Sims may be a more practical addition.

Not sure who else is available.

Byron mullens, anyone? No world beater, but has length, athleticism, and has shown good shooting range from time to time at the center position at the nba level.

I agree he has more than enough talent, but it seems that he never learned to play like a big man. Unless he shows more in the D League, I'd say no. I wouldn't mind giving Stockton a contract.

Btw Steve's comment about Anderson looking good was right - and feeding him the ball - Ish Smith looked great the other day.

[Dark Faze]

Nerlens is looking like PF isn't a good spot for him. Might be able to get him for a first this year, which I'd do without question.

[payitforward]

I don't care about Cousins' temper; I don't see it as a big deal. I don't have a problem w/ his "character" at all -- he has a personality, and he's passionate.

I care about his ability to put up numbers -- not just *some* numbers but across the board, because that's the way it is in basketball. Everyone does everything (some things more some less of course), and all of it influences wins and losses the same way no matter who is doing it. I.e. I don't worry about a quarterback's ability to tackle, but I do worry about a point guard's rebounding.

It's too few minutes to matter, but Cousins is *not* having "his best season." He's had some monster games, you bet. He'll have more too, because he's unbelievably gifted. But...

...though he's added the 3, and is shooting it well, his 2 pt. % is down. Overall, his TS% is .55 -- it was .54% last year. That's a little better, yes, and his turnovers are down some too -- also better. But his defensive rebounds, steals, blocks and assists have all dropped. Overall, using any measure but PER, he's actually a little down off of last year. His PER is up very very slightly (0.8).*

* Keep in mind that PER rewards volume shooters for their misses as well as their makes. E.g. look at Cousins' numbers vs. for example DeAndre Jordan. Leaving aside shooting, Jordan does most everything better. More rebounds, way fewer fouls, way fewer turnovers, almost as many steals, way more blocks, etc. But, every 40 minutes, Cousins makes 13+ more points shooting the ball than Jordan.

Yet, to do that, he has to take 17+ extra shots! That's 39% on the extra shots -- awful, but those misses *help* rather than hurt his PER. Even w/ Jordan's horrendous FT shooting, his TS% is .60 to Cousins' .56. And, he's better at everything else. Still, his PER is 18 to Cousins' 25

Pif, Cousins never was asked to be a stretch four. Now he's killing it from three.

Cousins never played with Rondo, who has had several triple doubles. (Lower rebounds percentage explained).

Cousins never played with two viable Cs, Koufos and Willie Cauley Stein. (He's being effected by other bigs like Nene effects Gortat when both bigs are on the court.)

Your aversion to Cousins is noted. Twelve games of stats with him injured and with roster flux explains all.

IMO you're wrong as heck. Cousins is better than ever.




John Wall or Demarcus Cousins+Derrick Favors?

Five years it takes at to be correctly understood.

As I've written before, I would have taken Cousins over Wall in the '10 draft -- and if, as you suggest, we'd have traded down and picked up another good player as well... of course.

I *don't* have an aversion to DeMarcus Cousins. Far from it. He's one of the most gifted players in the league. And he's very productive. Just not "star-level" productive -- which he could and should be. Nor am I dinging him on his small sample size of stats this year -- but the claim that he's better this year than last was based on those stats, so those are the ones I looked at, obviously.

It's always possible to explain anything away, CCJ. All the same, his TS% is just a little up, and the rest is (overall) just a little down. In other words, in his 6th year in the league Cousins is playing at just about the level he played at last year. No real surprise there. You can *like* what he does this year better than what he did last -- but its effect on team efficiency is unchanged.

[payitforward]

...It's fairly easy to body slam a guy like Pif who can't think a creative thought that doesn't end in 1 or 0, or string together a semi-witty phrase to save his life that doesn't make everyone groan in sympathy, but to what end?

Still smarting, barely? Still feeling pain? Awww, I'm sorry. You can't help yourself, and I promise not to pick on you any more.

Actually I should praise you, shouldn't I? You are a rare bird, one of the few guys who can get his thumb in mouth and his head in his a@# at the same time!

That witty enuff for ya?

...Cousins. There is close to no path to a championship without him. See you folks in another few months...

Don't tell me you're stepping back from the Board. Nah... room for all here.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't care about Cousins' temper; I don't see it as a big deal. I don't have a problem w/ his "character" at all -- he has a personality, and he's passionate.

I care about his ability to put up numbers -- not just *some* numbers but across the board, because that's the way it is in basketball. Everyone does everything (some things more some less of course), and all of it influences wins and losses the same way no matter who is doing it. I.e. I don't worry about a quarterback's ability to tackle, but I do worry about a point guard's rebounding.

It's too few minutes to matter, but Cousins is *not* having "his best season." He's had some monster games, you bet. He'll have more too, because he's unbelievably gifted. But...

...though he's added the 3, and is shooting it well, his 2 pt. % is down. Overall, his TS% is .55 -- it was .54% last year. That's a little better, yes, and his turnovers are down some too -- also better. But his defensive rebounds, steals, blocks and assists have all dropped. Overall, using any measure but PER, he's actually a little down off of last year. His PER is up very very slightly (0.8).*

* Keep in mind that PER rewards volume shooters for their misses as well as their makes. E.g. look at Cousins' numbers vs. for example DeAndre Jordan. Leaving aside shooting, Jordan does most everything better. More rebounds, way fewer fouls, way fewer turnovers, almost as many steals, way more blocks, etc. But, every 40 minutes, Cousins makes 13+ more points shooting the ball than Jordan.

Yet, to do that, he has to take 17+ extra shots! That's 39% on the extra shots -- awful, but those misses *help* rather than hurt his PER. Even w/ Jordan's horrendous FT shooting, his TS% is .60 to Cousins' .56. And, he's better at everything else. Still, his PER is 18 to Cousins' 25

Pif, Cousins never was asked to be a stretch four. Now he's killing it from three.

Cousins never played with Rondo, who has had several triple doubles. (Lower rebounds percentage explained).

Cousins never played with two viable Cs, Koufos and Willie Cauley Stein. (He's being effected by other bigs like Nene effects Gortat when both bigs are on the court.)

Your aversion to Cousins is noted. Twelve games of stats with him injured and with roster flux explains all.

IMO you're wrong as heck. Cousins is better than ever.




John Wall or Demarcus Cousins+Derrick Favors?

Five years it takes at to be correctly understood.

As I've written before, I would have taken Cousins over Wall in the '10 draft -- and if, as you suggest, we'd have traded down and picked up another good player as well... of course.

I *don't* have an aversion to DeMarcus Cousins. Far from it. He's one of the most gifted players in the league. And he's very productive. Just not "star-level" productive -- which he could and should be. Nor am I dinging him on his small sample size of stats this year -- but the claim that he's better this year than last was based on those stats, so those are the ones I looked at, obviously.

It's always possible to explain anything away, CCJ. All the same, his TS% is just a little up, and the rest is (overall) just a little down. In other words, in his 6th year in the league Cousins is playing at just about the level he played at last year. No real surprise there. You can *like* what he does this year better than what he did last -- but its effect on team efficiency is unchanged.

He's scoring over 30 every 36 minutes. Significant increase up from 25.

He's taken almost 5 3PT shots every 36 minutes, versus none last season. (Cousins is shooting 38% from 3).

Cousins may have similar efficiency, however, his game is that of a stretch big and he's focusing on scoring more now. His game is evolving.

[stevemcqueen1]

Btw Steve's comment about Anderson looking good was right - and feeding him the ball - Ish Smith looked great the other day.

His confidence is palpable. His stroke looks great too, just so easy and and pure. He's shooting it well from all over the floor, even shooting off the dribble.

I root for him. I would love to have him on our team, and I think he would be a good fit here. He would start for us. But he's been through a lot the past two years and he's just now getting back to normal. He's found kind of a safe footing within the Pelicans organization. I'm not sure a major change of scenery would be the best thing for him right now.

[stevemcqueen1]

Nerlens is looking like PF isn't a good spot for him. Might be able to get him for a first this year, which I'd do without question.

I think I'd pull the trigger on that too. There are some issues that are a little worrisome, which is the only reason he's even hypothetically available.

My issues:

- His inability to play PF would hurt our offense the same as it does Philly.
- He'd be behind Gortat for the next few seasons
- There are durability concerns
- There are concerns about his lack of bulk for playing the C position. He's a thin-jointed athlete with a narrow frame. He's still something of a man without a position.

Philly's issues:

- Brett Brown thinks of him as a core player for them.
- They have sooo many first round picks already. Is a late teens or early 20's pick enough of a haul for them to give up on Nerlens?

The pros:

- Age and upside. He'd give us a really good contingency plan for Gortat's eventual decline and retirement. Give us a young C prospect to grow up with Wall, Beal, Oubre, and Porter.
- A first round pick might be as good as Philly can demand if Noel is perceived as a bust for them.
- He'd save our season if Gortat went down, one of the truly killer injury scenarios we can not afford.
- He'd be the rim protector we currently lack, and would be able to play in lineups with Nene.
- The kid has a first rate glue-guy personality, similar to Joakim Noah, similar to Otto. His overall value is good in spite of his lack of offensive contribution. He has a natural leadership quality to him that would be good for our defense.
- He'd be a better offensive player here than in Philly. He'd go from having some of the worst guards in the NBA to some of the best, and he would be a real pick and roll option.

So I'd pull the trigger. If it's for a draft pick, that's a swap of a long term asset for another long term asset with no real adverse effect on this season or next. I doubt we could get a better player in the draft this year. We could bring him along carefully. And I love the idea of a Wall, Beal, Oubre, Porter, and Noel lineup. It'd be tiny, but it would be unbelievably fast and athletic and we could run teams off the floor. We'd be able to really plat that swarming style of switch and recover defense that Miami and Golden State play/played.

[Dark Faze]

Nene would actually be a great PF next to Nerlens at C

[J-Ves]

Nene would actually be a great PF next to Nerlens at C

Spacing would be an major issue, but that would be a solid defensive front court.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Ruzious]

Meh, he's definitely a superstar at both ends of the court - if... he's 100% recovered. He showed that in his matchups with Lebron. Fisher said it exactly right - It's a supastar league when it comes to being a championship contender. That's why Indy likely doesn't pull the trigger. CCJ is probably right to wait - though I think 50 games is too long. If he's back 100%, we'll be able to tell before then.

Thirty games?

Make it 13. At either forward position, he's one of the top 5 players in the East - arguably 2nd best.

[Ruzious]

Does anyone still want to talk about Paul George not being a star? You're welcome to step up to the mike and tell us.

[Dark Faze]

i've always said dude was better than kawhi

[stevemcqueen1]

Yeah he's better than Kawhi. When playing at his peak, he's an MVP caliber player. But he's been an inconsistent player in the past. The season before he got hurt, he only played at an MVP level for half the year before he experienced a dramatic drop in his level of play. I want to see him sustain an elite level of play for an entire season before I buy him as an alpha dog MVP type player.

The impression I've had of him is that he's this generation's Scottie Pippen. More of a beta personality, but capable of carrying a team with dominant two way play for long stretches. If he were on a team with a Steph Curry or Westbrook or Durant or LeBron, they would be amazing in the same way Jordan and Pippen were. If he was on our team, we'd be the two seed. No doubt. He would absolutely elevate us.

[Illmatic12]

i've always said dude was better than kawhi

Same, Kawhi is improved but he can't come near George's shot creation ability and ball handling. Let me know when Leonard can drop 40 to close out a playoff series on the road (we saw that firsthand ..)

[ozthegap]

i've always said dude was better than kawhi

Same, Kawhi is improved but he can't come near George's shot creation ability and ball handling. Let me know when Leonard can drop 40 to close out a playoff series on the road (we saw that firsthand ..)

Kawahi is the better defensive player. Pg is better offensively and all around. But if I remember correctly Kawahi dominates that matchup head to head most of the time.

[gambitx777]

I think we need to move nene or gortat before the dead line, I don't think we can keep both of them for long.

[dckingsfan]

I think we need to move nene or gortat before the dead line, I don't think we can keep both of them for long.

I think there is something going on with this team - something that has group psychology deficit written all over it.

I am thinking that Wall/Beal has tried to step up and take over the leadership role but it hasn't worked out that well. I can't put my finger on it... I think we need a trade to shake things up.

Or I am wrong and this group just needs more time to figure out how to run the offense while still executing their defensive schema.

[Dark Faze]

hump is a bad defender and offensively he's at 40% FG as a PF.

That tells you all you need to know

[LyricalRico]

I think we need to move nene or gortat before the dead line, I don't think we can keep both of them for long.

I think there is something going on with this team - something that has group psychology deficit written all over it.

I am thinking that Wall/Beal has tried to step up and take over the leadership role but it hasn't worked out that well. I can't put my finger on it... I think we need a trade to shake things up.

Or I am wrong and this group just needs more time to figure out how to run the offense while still executing their defensive schema.

Yeah, in retrospect it seems like they overthought the offseason by focusing too much on the offensive perimeter (both in roster moves and in style). Simply moving Porter into the starting lineup, adding Dudley, and drafting Portis would have been simple and easy to execute. Then they could have played the same way they did last year, just with a deeper squad.

As for what they can do now, there's not much if they are intent on maintaining 2016 flexibility (which they almost have to do at this point since they've already gone so far down that road).

Maybe something like Webster+Hump+2nd for Taj Gibson if Chicago wants to cut future salary. But again, is a move like that worth killing any possiblity of a bigger move next summer? Expecially since they probably could still get a similar deal done in July using cap space if we whiff on KD.

[FAH1223]

Mitch McGary for some of our trash?

Think OKC would dump him?