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Political Roundtable - Part VII

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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1801 » by TGW » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:28 pm

The truth shall set you free:

Dallas Mayor Says He’s More Fearful Of Armed White Men Than Syrian Refugees

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/11/23/3725109/dallas-mayor-syrian-refugees-white-supremacists/

The mayor of Dallas is pushing back against politicians who say Americans should be skeptical ofSyrian refugees, saying he is “more fearful” of armed white men than people fleeing civil war in the Middle East.

Speaking to MSNBC on Saturday morning, Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings was asked to discuss the growing anxiety over Syrian refugees entering the United States, purportedly over concerns they could be potential agents for militant groups such as ISIS. Rawlings staunchly rejected the assertion that Syrians are somehow uniquely prone to violence, saying he is more concerned with the rise of white supremacy and the recent flurry of mass shootings committed by white men.

“I am more fearful of large gatherings of white men that come into schools, theaters and shoot people up, but we don’t isolate young white men on this issue,” Rawlings said.

He also said that vilifying refugees only helps ISIS, as doing so falls into their “trap.” He then pushed back on the notion that ISIS is somehow representative of Islam.

“ISIS is no more Islamic than Nazi senior staff was Christian,” he said. He also subtly challengedChristian governors and other followers of Christ who have rejected refugees, referencing Jesus’ scriptural call to “welcome the stranger” in Matthew 25:41-43, asking, “Christ following people like myself — how do we deal with this issue of strangers, and are we going to let them in?”

Rawlings’ position is in line with current statistics on domestic terrorism, which show that right-wing terrorists have killed more people than “homegrown jihadists” since September 11, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. This includes this summer’s tragic church shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, when avowed white supremacist Dylann Roof murdered 9 African American worshippers in cold blood after sitting with them in a group Bible study for an hour. Another Christian white supremacist, Larry McQuilliams, attempted to burn down the Mexican consulate in Austin, Texas last year, firing more than 100 rounds in the downtown area before being shot dead by a police officer while trying to enter a police station. More recently, the FBIsuccessfully thwarted a white supremacist plan to bomb and shoot up black churches and synagogues, and groups of armed, primarily white men continue to protest regularly outside of mosques in places such as Texas: Over the weekend, a group of armed men protested outside a Muslim house of worship in Irving, Texas.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1802 » by dckingsfan » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:21 pm

Hard to argue that immigrants would be any more violent than our current population... blacks, whites, whatever...

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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1803 » by Dat2U » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:30 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Kooky stuff like "Jesus says homosexuality is a sin"

or "Darwin says I'm descended from a monkey"

Or "your teenage boys are safe spending their afternoons with the pastor"


I don't suppose you're interested in an actual theological discussion, but in the event you are, I would simply point out that Jesus did talk a lot about sin, lust, adultery, and fornication - all of which are comprised of activities done outside the context of marriage. And he further defined marriage as between a man and a woman ("“Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” - Matthew 19:4-6). And then you have the longstanding Christian doctrines of the Trinity and the inspiration of the Scripture, such that all of the words in the Bible are the Word of God (i.e., Jesus), not just the ones in red. So yes, Jesus says homosexuality is a sin. Although, I would refine the statement to say that Jesus calls homosexual acts and lusts as sin, not necessarily the initial attraction. But that might be getting too deep for this forum.

I understand that statement won't get me invited to many fancy dinner parties. But it is in line with historical teachings, and is not anything new, thought up by crazed right-wing Americans. I'm not asking you to like it, I'm only asking for the right to hold it.

But maybe that just makes me a kook.


[Adding a coda to be sure I am as clear as I possibly can be - Jesus spoke very harsh words against all forms of sin, and particularly sexual sins. This includes unfaithfulness to a spouse, even a wandering eye that never gets acted on in the physical sense. It also includes divorce. So this is not a case of singling out homosexuals as a unique class, we are all sinners. But acknowledging that truth does not give us the option to excuse or ignore anyone's sin. Jesus did not leave that door open. (John 8:11) ]


Maybe I'm delving off the subject a bit but why do we believe history is full of truth & undeniable fact? Why do we assume that knowledge that's been around for centuries is automatically correct? Surely deceit & lies is not a recent invention. The Bible was a man made tool. We've been told it was inspired by God... but how do we actually know or confirm that?
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1804 » by dckingsfan » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:33 pm

Of course some would say...

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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1805 » by nate33 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:07 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Of course some would say...

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U.S. whites have a homicide rate of 2.4.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1806 » by nate33 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:13 pm

TGW wrote:The truth shall set you free:

Dallas Mayor Says He’s More Fearful Of Armed White Men Than Syrian Refugees

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/11/23/3725109/dallas-mayor-syrian-refugees-white-supremacists/

The mayor of Dallas is pushing back against politicians who say Americans should be skeptical ofSyrian refugees, saying he is “more fearful” of armed white men than people fleeing civil war in the Middle East.

Speaking to MSNBC on Saturday morning, Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings was asked to discuss the growing anxiety over Syrian refugees entering the United States, purportedly over concerns they could be potential agents for militant groups such as ISIS. Rawlings staunchly rejected the assertion that Syrians are somehow uniquely prone to violence, saying he is more concerned with the rise of white supremacy and the recent flurry of mass shootings committed by white men.

“I am more fearful of large gatherings of white men that come into schools, theaters and shoot people up, but we don’t isolate young white men on this issue,” Rawlings said.

He also said that vilifying refugees only helps ISIS, as doing so falls into their “trap.” He then pushed back on the notion that ISIS is somehow representative of Islam.

“ISIS is no more Islamic than Nazi senior staff was Christian,” he said. He also subtly challengedChristian governors and other followers of Christ who have rejected refugees, referencing Jesus’ scriptural call to “welcome the stranger” in Matthew 25:41-43, asking, “Christ following people like myself — how do we deal with this issue of strangers, and are we going to let them in?”

Rawlings’ position is in line with current statistics on domestic terrorism, which show that right-wing terrorists have killed more people than “homegrown jihadists” since September 11, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. This includes this summer’s tragic church shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, when avowed white supremacist Dylann Roof murdered 9 African American worshippers in cold blood after sitting with them in a group Bible study for an hour. Another Christian white supremacist, Larry McQuilliams, attempted to burn down the Mexican consulate in Austin, Texas last year, firing more than 100 rounds in the downtown area before being shot dead by a police officer while trying to enter a police station. More recently, the FBIsuccessfully thwarted a white supremacist plan to bomb and shoot up black churches and synagogues, and groups of armed, primarily white men continue to protest regularly outside of mosques in places such as Texas: Over the weekend, a group of armed men protested outside a Muslim house of worship in Irving, Texas.

220 million whites in the U.S. versus about 4 million Arab Muslims. One would expect the aggregate numbers to show more white terrorism. It's the terrorism rate that is relevant.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/americanattacks.htm
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1807 » by nuposse04 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:15 pm

O_O at the Honduras rate. And an applause at the Japanese rate... Guessing education has to be a considerable factor here.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1808 » by TGW » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:57 pm

nate33 wrote:
TGW wrote:The truth shall set you free:

Dallas Mayor Says He’s More Fearful Of Armed White Men Than Syrian Refugees

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/11/23/3725109/dallas-mayor-syrian-refugees-white-supremacists/

The mayor of Dallas is pushing back against politicians who say Americans should be skeptical ofSyrian refugees, saying he is “more fearful” of armed white men than people fleeing civil war in the Middle East.

Speaking to MSNBC on Saturday morning, Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings was asked to discuss the growing anxiety over Syrian refugees entering the United States, purportedly over concerns they could be potential agents for militant groups such as ISIS. Rawlings staunchly rejected the assertion that Syrians are somehow uniquely prone to violence, saying he is more concerned with the rise of white supremacy and the recent flurry of mass shootings committed by white men.

“I am more fearful of large gatherings of white men that come into schools, theaters and shoot people up, but we don’t isolate young white men on this issue,” Rawlings said.

He also said that vilifying refugees only helps ISIS, as doing so falls into their “trap.” He then pushed back on the notion that ISIS is somehow representative of Islam.

“ISIS is no more Islamic than Nazi senior staff was Christian,” he said. He also subtly challengedChristian governors and other followers of Christ who have rejected refugees, referencing Jesus’ scriptural call to “welcome the stranger” in Matthew 25:41-43, asking, “Christ following people like myself — how do we deal with this issue of strangers, and are we going to let them in?”

Rawlings’ position is in line with current statistics on domestic terrorism, which show that right-wing terrorists have killed more people than “homegrown jihadists” since September 11, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. This includes this summer’s tragic church shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, when avowed white supremacist Dylann Roof murdered 9 African American worshippers in cold blood after sitting with them in a group Bible study for an hour. Another Christian white supremacist, Larry McQuilliams, attempted to burn down the Mexican consulate in Austin, Texas last year, firing more than 100 rounds in the downtown area before being shot dead by a police officer while trying to enter a police station. More recently, the FBIsuccessfully thwarted a white supremacist plan to bomb and shoot up black churches and synagogues, and groups of armed, primarily white men continue to protest regularly outside of mosques in places such as Texas: Over the weekend, a group of armed men protested outside a Muslim house of worship in Irving, Texas.

220 million whites in the U.S. versus about 4 million Arab Muslims. One would expect the aggregate numbers to show more white terrorism. It's the terrorism rate that is relevant.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/americanattacks.htm


LOL at that website. Did some christian wingnut create that site? Half those cases are complete bull...just random crimes the author is blaming the NOI for. No proof whatsoever.

And the rate really is not relevant. The threat of a white gunmen is HIGHER than an islamic terrorist threat.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1809 » by TGW » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:18 pm

Scary stuff man...a Chicago Police officer charged in the murder of a teenager had his police mates deleting the evidence. Apparently the video is real bad...worst than the South Carolina cop who shot that man in the back.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1810 » by dckingsfan » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:17 pm

Yikes, Turkey shoots down a Russian jet...
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Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1811 » by Induveca » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:17 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Yikes, Turkey shoots down a Russian jet...


Then ISIS shot down a helicopter trying to search for the pilots. Definitely calls into question the airspace issue. Majorly idiotic move by Turkey. I guess they don't realize the only reason they're a NATO member is their airfields?

The proxy war here is intense.....
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1812 » by dckingsfan » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:20 pm

TGW wrote:Scary stuff man...a Chicago Police officer charged in the murder of a teenager had his police mates deleting the evidence. Apparently the video is real bad...worst than the South Carolina cop who shot that man in the back.

Chicago - such a corrupt city on soooo many levels. It starts with the political machine there and works its way back down. A sequel to Detroit.

"Chicago owes almost $14 billion in outstanding general obligation bond debt, and the city's pension funds owe $19.5 billion in unfunded obligations to police, firefighters and municipal employees. Combined, the Chicago Tribune reports the Second City owes more than $33 billion."

That is unbelievable - it will cost many lives there as services get wacked to service their debt.

Sigh...
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1813 » by Zonkerbl » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:32 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/25/chicago-protesters-confront-police-shut-down-interstate-after-release-of-laquan-mcdonald-video/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_chicago-5am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

If you watch the video, kid is walking around with his hand in his pocket. Cop arrives at the scene, doesn't know that the weapon is a knife, something happens (there's no audio so you don't know what the cop said), maybe the cop tells him to get his damn hands out of his pockets, kid ignores him, cop opens fire. Because if you had peaceful intentions you would pull your damn hands out of your pockets. And he did have a deadly weapon in his pocket.

I don't know what that kid was thinking. I think it's fair of the cop to be afraid of a weapon being pulled out of a pocket after a cop orders him to get his hands out of his pockets. But he should have waited for the kid to actually pull a weapon out and make a threatening move with it. Maybe he would've seen it was just a knife. Seems like a panic move by the cop.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1814 » by Zonkerbl » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:42 pm

Not this crap again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/11/24/standoff-over-government-climate-study-provokes-national-uproar-by-scientists/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_climate-1115pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Lamar Smith needs to be immediately impeached and jailed for his use of "politically correct" in reference to scientific findings. What a schmuck.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1815 » by nate33 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:43 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:I don't know what that kid was thinking. I think it's fair of the cop to be afraid of a weapon being pulled out of a pocket after a cop orders him to get his hands out of his pockets. But he should have waited for the kid to actually pull a weapon out and make a threatening move with it. Maybe he would've seen it was just a knife. Seems like a panic move by the cop.

It seems like the same story over and over again.

The black suspect fails to follow reasonable orders from a scared cop, and bad things happen. We obviously have a problem with cops being too aggressive and/or scared in these types of situations, but we also have a problem with the now endemic lack of respect for authority from black youth. These two things are a very bad combination.

I don't know the solution. It's tough to tell a cop that they should put their own lives at greater risk just because many young blacks are going to reflexively disobey their instructions, but we've also got to find a way to stop these incidents where young blacks are getting killed without clearly threatening the cop.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1816 » by dckingsfan » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:10 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:Not this crap again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/11/24/standoff-over-government-climate-study-provokes-national-uproar-by-scientists/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_climate-1115pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Lamar Smith needs to be immediately impeached and jailed for his use of "politically correct" in reference to scientific findings. What a schmuck.


Actually, the witch hunt has gone both ways. Scientist that have brought up research that challenged the "status quo" of global warming were eviscerated (even though they were later proved correct). Same way back in the day when we had the "population bomb" issue. If you brought up any facts to the contrary the "scientific establishment" would eviscerate you.

I believe Lamar Smith is absolutely correct that their is a "Politically Correct" speak on global warming. If you don't "believe" you must be a whack job. That is fine for politics - but the basis of science is to have a theory and then try to disprove it... the science of global warming has transitioned to political and not scientific, IMO.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1817 » by Zonkerbl » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:I don't know what that kid was thinking. I think it's fair of the cop to be afraid of a weapon being pulled out of a pocket after a cop orders him to get his hands out of his pockets. But he should have waited for the kid to actually pull a weapon out and make a threatening move with it. Maybe he would've seen it was just a knife. Seems like a panic move by the cop.

It seems like the same story over and over again.

The black suspect fails to follow reasonable orders from a scared cop, and bad things happen. We obviously have a problem with cops being too aggressive and/or scared in these types of situations, but we also have a problem with the now endemic lack of respect for authority from black youth. These two things are a very bad combination.

I don't know the solution. It's tough to tell a cop that they should put their own lives at greater risk just because many young blacks are going to reflexively disobey their instructions, but we've also got to find a way to stop these incidents where young blacks are getting killed without clearly threatening the cop.


It's a statistical thing. This kind of scenario clearly happens fairly often, because of the overwhelming prevalence of handguns in this country. There are going to be some on the edge cases, and some small number of those marginal cases are going to end in an innocent kid getting shot. I really think the only answer to this is to ban the manufacture and import of handguns. There's no other way around it. Cops are afraid because there's a good chance the kid has a gun. Eliminate the fear of guns and you eliminate the cop's fear. You eliminate the marginal cases entirely and no innocent kid dies.

And yes yes I know how impractical that is. There will be a BRIEF period where the only people who have guns are cops and outlaws. All the "nightmare" scenarios will be true for a short time. And it'll take a decade or so of aggressive gun-collecting action, some combination of voluntary gun turn-in programs and flat out invading people's houses and seizing their guns. All we have to do is vote, as a country, to strike the second amendment out of the Constitution. It's not impossible, we just have to decide the bloodshed is just not worth it.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1818 » by Zonkerbl » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:14 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Not this crap again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/11/24/standoff-over-government-climate-study-provokes-national-uproar-by-scientists/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_climate-1115pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Lamar Smith needs to be immediately impeached and jailed for his use of "politically correct" in reference to scientific findings. What a schmuck.


Actually, the witch hunt has gone both ways. Scientist that have brought up research that challenged the "status quo" of global warming were eviscerated (even though they were later proved correct). Same way back in the day when we had the "population bomb" issue. If you brought up any facts to the contrary the "scientific establishment" would eviscerate you.

I believe Lamar Smith is absolutely correct that their is a "Politically Correct" speak on global warming. If you don't "believe" you must be a whack job. That is fine for politics - but the basis of science is to have a theory and then try to disprove it... the science of global warming has transitioned to political and not scientific, IMO.


Yes, if you are not a scientist (e.g. you're just some hack hired by the oil industry) and have no idea what you are talking about, you deserve to be eviscerated by the scientific community.

People who aren't scientists don't understand how ruthless the discipline is. Sloppiness is not tolerated. Don't come into the ring and complain when you get knocked out cold cause you have no idea what you're doing.

And people who use the term "political correct" deserve to get knocked out. We're talking about using your political position to distort the scientific process. This is corruption on a level we haven't seen since Galileo was accused of heresy in the Middle Ages.
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1819 » by dckingsfan » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:20 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Not this crap again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/11/24/standoff-over-government-climate-study-provokes-national-uproar-by-scientists/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_climate-1115pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Lamar Smith needs to be immediately impeached and jailed for his use of "politically correct" in reference to scientific findings. What a schmuck.


Actually, the witch hunt has gone both ways. Scientist that have brought up research that challenged the "status quo" of global warming were eviscerated (even though they were later proved correct). Same way back in the day when we had the "population bomb" issue. If you brought up any facts to the contrary the "scientific establishment" would eviscerate you.

I believe Lamar Smith is absolutely correct that their is a "Politically Correct" speak on global warming. If you don't "believe" you must be a whack job. That is fine for politics - but the basis of science is to have a theory and then try to disprove it... the science of global warming has transitioned to political and not scientific, IMO.


Yes, if you are not a scientist and have no idea what you are talking about, you deserve to be eviscerated by the scientific community.

People who aren't scientists don't understand how ruthless the discipline is. Sloppiness is not tolerated. Don't come into the ring and complain when you get knocked out cold cause you have no idea what you're doing.

And people who use the term "political correct" deserve to get knocked out. We're talking about using your political position to distort the scientific process. This is corruption on a level we haven't seen since Galileo was accused of heresy in the Middle Ages.


Actually - it is the scientific community that was eviscerating the scientific community in both cases.

And funding for the science is both sloppy and political - I have been involved the process for years. Talk to any scientist and they will vent their frustration with the process. Including who is now getting funding for global warming studies.

Edit: see the stimulus waste as well...

And the "political correct" verbiage is definitely influencing said funding. And yes, it is corrupt - but not by the folks you are thinking. Ask Al Gore.

And go back a generation and find out the funding that went into the "population bomb".
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Re: Political Roundtable - Part VII 

Post#1820 » by TGW » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:24 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/25/chicago-protesters-confront-police-shut-down-interstate-after-release-of-laquan-mcdonald-video/?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_chicago-5am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

If you watch the video, kid is walking around with his hand in his pocket. Cop arrives at the scene, doesn't know that the weapon is a knife, something happens (there's no audio so you don't know what the cop said), maybe the cop tells him to get his damn hands out of his pockets, kid ignores him, cop opens fire. Because if you had peaceful intentions you would pull your damn hands out of your pockets. And he did have a deadly weapon in his pocket.

I don't know what that kid was thinking. I think it's fair of the cop to be afraid of a weapon being pulled out of a pocket after a cop orders him to get his hands out of his pockets. But he should have waited for the kid to actually pull a weapon out and make a threatening move with it. Maybe he would've seen it was just a knife. Seems like a panic move by the cop.


I'm not going to go back and forth over this because it gets tiring, but the kid already had the knife in his hands before the police killed him. He was clearly walking away from them, so I don't see the threat, unless the kid is a master knife thrower going away from his body.

There's a reason that cop got charged with murder...being "scared' didn't come close to justifying 16 shots out the clip in this situation.

And I see Nate is building his Fox News narrative of black youth "lacking the respect" of authority. No Nate--ALL youth disrespect authority. Want proof?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UhsZHBGaBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3KZWpHzZdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkYCKWN5kaI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lpwg-DbKB4

It's just that one demographic gets killed by the cops. The other demographics get subdued.
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