What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons?

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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#41 » by hookshot199 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:53 pm

TONYROMOHOF wrote:
mksp wrote:
Domejandro wrote:One of my biggest issues so far in Philadelphia's rebuild has been their disregard how pieces fit together, and this would continue that trend. Though the individual players are terrific, the spacing of that team is just brutal at almost every position (other than Robert Covington and the streaky Canaan). In the hypothetical of Ben Simmons joining the team, I think Nerlens Noel would become completely ineffective.

In addition, the outlook on Joel Embiid's foot is not good, he is too unreliable to bank on for the future.

I personally am not a major fan of Dario Šarić, but that is just an opinion of course.

So the way I see it, Jahlil Okafor and Ben Simmons would make two great building blocks, and Robert Covington could definitely be a fourth to fifth starter, but they are going to need another year (at least) of tanking to properly piece things together. I am concerned about a long term cycle that could formulate.

That said, if they get that Lakers pick at four, they could potentially be set in the long run after the aforementioned one year; I feel a lot banks in that pick panning out.

I know that was brutally negative, but I don't think it is just a "get Simmons and watch the Championships roll in"-type situation, it will take more than that.


Are you a doctor?

Because Joel's doctor says his outlook is great. Wondering why you think otherwise.


History is one reason, big guys and foot injuries has been a bad combo in the past
I hope he plays, its **** not getting to see fuys like him and oden etc
Its gonna be hardtho, look at durant right now, and hes lighter



There's not a great deal of history with Embiid's injury. Yao, of course. Walton and McHale as geezers, but one of them (can't recall which one) didn't get it treated right away. Ilgauskas. Had a fine career.

I don't see any reason to be overly optimistic - or pessimistic - at this point. They're bringing him back slowly. One thing we know now is that he didn't rebreak his foot in June.

On the issue of the draft, it is foolish to play for the top seed. You only have a 25% chance of getting it. You have a greater chance (34%) of drafting fourth. All you should really expect is that you'll get a top three pick.

The Sixers have a realistic shot at getting two top-five picks this coming June. If they don't get the Lakers pick this year, they'll probably in 2017, at which point it will probably be closer to a 10 pick. I don't see the Lakers becoming a playoff team in the West even if they score in free agency next June.

So putting together the pieces: We'll have four of a seven-man rotation after the June draft. Noel, Okafor, Saric and our pick. Whether he's one, two or three, he will probably be a key player going into the 2016-2017 season.

We'll have a bench: Covington, Grant, Kendall Marshall, Holmes and Stauskas.

That's nine players not counting Embiid and the Lakers pick. Or the Miami, OKC and future Sacramento picks.

I'm also not counting Jakaar, Hollis Thompson and Wroten. I assume at least two of them will be gone.

And, usually forgotten: We will have $60 mil in cap space. Hinkie will surely sign somebody to fill one of the starting positions. So, expect him to have five or six of his main players and a solid five-man bench (Stauskas could still emerge as one of the seven).

Like others, I am disappointed that he came into this season without even a second-string point guard ready to play. Then again, he had two under contract (Marshall and Wroten), both injured.

Should he have gone out and signed Rondo…and put up with his sh*t! Or Chalmers? Maybe.

But if you look at the big picture, I think he's built a solid foundation…even without Embiid returning.

My opinion.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#42 » by mksp » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:23 pm

Domejandro wrote:
BullyKing wrote:
Domejandro wrote:I am not a physician, no, but I do have a PHD in deductive-reasoning. I'll filter myself on the rest of the snark, but I do not see why I should simply accept a report out of Philadelphia to be objective about his healing process, especially given how massive the setback was. I will believe it once I see it, but the outlook, in all objectivity, is not good.


No one is saying you accept it. But the counter is that you instead seem convinced by nothing but your own unsupported opinion. If you're not going to accept the news report, which again is fine, you'd think you just have no opinion and wait and see. But I understand that wouldn't fit your narrative.

I have to say it bluntly, the defensiveness is astonishing given that my take was relatively objective.

Domejandro wrote:In addition, the outlook on Joel Embiid's foot is not good, he is too unreliable to bank on for the future.


Read it, and then read it again. Then, just to make sure, read it one last time. I will break it down.

Domejandro wrote:he is too unreliable to bank on for the future.


Domejandro wrote:too unreliable to bank on


If you guys are convinced that his foot will be fine due to Philadelphia news outlets, then I need to tell you guys about my property in Sante Fe. Sure it is hot, but don't worry, the property is beach-front!

To put it in less condescending terms, given that Joel Embiid has missed two seasons due to a fractured navicular bone (an injury I personally sustained on October first of last year and have to get surgery on on the fourth of December, over fourteen months later!), I am highly, highly doubtful of him making a long-term stay in the NBA.

As a side-note, the "you're all out to get us" mentality is silly, there are legitimate criticisms as well as illegitimate criticisms; all because the later exists does not render the former nonexistent. It is perfectly reasonable to disagree with the criticisms that are thrown out, as many can very well be invalid, but painting every comment one makes in debate as being immediately agenda-driven is a very poor tactic for getting people to consider your point-of-view.


Coincidentally, I also fractured my navicular bone (smashed it into 4 pieces) in early September, and had emergency surgery two days later. I'm still in a boot.

I'm highly, highly confident in him being on the court next year. He sustained a stress fracture. Didn't smash it, didn't need a metal plate like I did on the bone. Just two screws.

Don't know why he didn't have the bone graft done with the original procedure, that was a bad job by the original surgeon. The one that performed his current surgery is one of the best on the planet at this type of procedure.

He'll be fine.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#43 » by yoyoboy » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:28 pm

Philly is 0-15... Let that sink in. Adding Ben Simmons isn't going to instantly make them a dynasty. They're multiple pieces away from even making the playoffs. And even still, it'll be hard to shed a culture of losing. Look at Orlando with the talent they have or heck, even the Cavs when LeBron returned. It took time before the young guys on the team finally learned how to win, and it took one of the greatest players of all time to teach them how to do it.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#44 » by DanTown8587 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:31 pm

I don't see how Simmons/Noel/Embiid fits so obviously they'll get a nice little bump in trading say Noel to a team that can give them legit perimeter scoring. If they hit on that (and the Lakers pick) then maybe they're on to something. But at this point, it's probably more likely the Lakers keep their pick (top 3) than they get Simmons.
...
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#45 » by eagereyez » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:33 pm

DrCoach wrote:
eagereyez wrote:Man why even talk about landing Simmons. Even if PHI ends up with the worst record there's still a chance they land outside the top 3. How awful would it be if they landed the 4th pick and the Lakers ended up with the 1st.


Because the have the best chance of getting him, he is the best player in college and he plays a position of need?

Best chance of getting him is still only a 25% chance. It's more likely that they don't get him. And he does not fit a position of need. Not unless he turns into Durant. Sixers need shooters more than anything.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#46 » by snoopdogg88 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:33 pm

it didn't take the Cavs that long to learn to win when LeBron returned.
they won 50+ games last season for goodness sake.

coincidently enough when you add star players to your roster, you tend to learn how to win pretty quickly.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#47 » by frothbrain » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:47 pm

whichever team gets simmons will have a fantastic outlook.
pelicans combo of davis and simmons would surpass anything philly can put out.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#48 » by BNelley24 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:54 pm

miltk wrote:The 6ers have an organizational problem. In other words, same ole same ole


90% of teams build contenders through the draft. In the NBA, unless you get lucky and a "LeBron" wants to pair up with 2 other stars and come to your team, you need to suck, get high draft picks/assets, and pick the right guys. OR you need to compile picks/salary cap space and use it to flip for stars (like the Celtics and KG/Pierce/Ray Allen)

I could list every contender in the NBA and show you how they got there through the draft.

If Hinkie's plan fails it won't be because what he's doing is wrong. It will be because he ends up drafting bad players with the high picks.

Here is quick one.

Sonics sucked, got Durant, won 20 games or so. YES THEY WON 20 SOMETHING GAMES WITH KEVIN DURANT. Next year they got Westbrook. You'd think "OMG THEY"RE GONNA BE AWEESOMMME" ...NO! They still won 20 something games with Durant & Westbrook. Finally they got Harden & Ibaka and boom they won 51 games. They sucked, got high picks, and drafted the right players with those picks.

I could show you how Golden State did it. In fact, I am 1/2 way through a length article for a friend's blog which details how every contender in the NBA got to that point. Here is a spoiler alert. They did it through the draft.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#49 » by BNelley24 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:06 pm

snoopdogg88 wrote:it didn't take the Cavs that long to learn to win when LeBron returned.
they won 50+ games last season for goodness sake.

coincidently enough when you add star players to your roster, you tend to learn how to win pretty quickly.


EXACTLY.

I just made a post about this, but here is another one for these dweebs. Especially the people who think it will take like 6-7 years for the 76ers to be good again. That is such BS it is insane. If you draft the right players you can become a contender in the NBA pretty quickly. Let's look at the Sonics. The 2006-07 Ray Allen lead Sonics won 31 games. That year they got lucky in the lottery and was able to draft Kevin Durant. The 2007-08 Sonics with Kevin Durant (traded Ray Allen) went 20-62. YES a team with Kevin Durant wnet 20-62! So, after sucking they got another high pick and were able to draft RUSSEL WESTBROOK. What happened? Well, the 2008-09 Thunder won 23 games going 23-59. So, they got ANOTHER high draft pick. This is now the 3rd year. Who did they get? James Harden & Serge Ibaka. That year, the 2009-10 Thunder won 51 games and made the playoffs. Only a year after winning 23 games, they win 51 and nearly won in the first round vs Kobe Bryant.

So to my point. even if you draft future superstars, it will take SOME time for it to come together, however, if you draft the right guys you can go from sucking to becoming a contender pretty damn fast.

Let's say the plan goes perfectly this off-season and the 76ers land #1 and #4 (best case scenario) as well as landing Thunder & Heat pick. Let's also say Saric is telling the truth that he's coming over & Joel Embiid is able to play next year.

You'll have a squad of Dario Saric - Joel Embiid - Nerlens Noel -Jahlil Okafor - Ben Simmons - TOP 5 pick, and 2 other 1st rounders. That team might still win 25-35 games only because they woudl still be severely young, however a team like that could grow extremely fast and go from 35 wins to 55 in a matter of 1 season.

The bottom line is that Hinkie is doing the right thing. No one can convince me otherwise. I will only call for Hinkie to be fired if the players we end up drafting turn out to be busts.

Like I've said once, and will say a million times. I do not understand how anyone could think otherwise. I would 2000000% rather be in the 76ers position right now that a team like Toronto or Atlanta. In fact, if I woke up tomorrow and was told I could pick any team to become GM for the 76ers would be in my top 5 selections. I would rather have a team with some young studs who sucks, but is in the position to better themselves, than to be a team that is destined for the playoffs but is no where close to actually contending for a championship. IMO Front offices of those teams deserve to be bashed, not the 76ers. 'Those' teams are basically screwing their future for extra playoff revenue, and people eat that **** up.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#50 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:19 pm

Russ and KD are top 5 players. I just don't see anyone on Philly's team approaching that distinction. If they get Simmons maybe, but they haven't had the top pick yet despite being the worst team for years.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#51 » by BNelley24 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:22 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:Russ and KD are top 5 players. I just don't see anyone on Philly's team approaching that distinction. If they get Simmons maybe, but they haven't had the top pick yet despite being the worst team for years.


Another false statement. The 76ers have not been the worst team in the league record wise in the last 2 years. In fact they were the 3rd worst last year.

If Joel Embiid is healthy he is a dominant player. Jahlil Okafor isn't Westbrook or Durant, but he is def a franchise level player. Yeah, none of these players could match Durant or Westy, but having all these players could still make it possible to swing some of them for a disgruntled superstar. It is all about options.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#52 » by Mik317 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:28 pm

Better.

he's a talented player.

We lack talent.

Talent will make us better. How much better depends on other things but better nonetheless. He'd give us someone who could create from the perimeter. All the talk of shooters ignore the fact that we also need creators in general
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#53 » by BNelley24 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:29 pm

People also need to realize that since Embiid has had a delay because of injuries and Saric wasn't planned to come over until next year at the earliest, the 2014 draft hasn't impacted this team at all (except Grant). Meanwhile other bad teams have had their 1st rounders from 2014 help them rebuild, we didn't. So basically so far in 2 drafts Hinkie has trade Jrue Holiday for Nerlens Noel (win in my books), drafted MCW and flipped him for Lakers pick this year which could end up being extremely valuable & drafted Jahlil Okafor which looks like he'll be a fantastic player in the league for many years.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#54 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:32 pm

I have no hope that Embiid will make an impact at this point.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#55 » by Worm122 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:38 pm

Spurs with David Robinson= 20 wins;

Next year Spurs with David Robinson + Tim Duncan = 51 wins;
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#56 » by Rushodian » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:41 pm

When does Philly decide they want to win? That's when I'll start caring, when it's clear that they care. I hope it's next year, because I don't know how much more basketball fans in Philly can take of being terrible.

They're going to need to be able to sign some free agents, though. They're going to net some veterans. Or... anybody. They can't just draft everybody. Can they?

****, I don't know.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#57 » by theonlyclutch » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:47 pm

snoopdogg88 wrote:it didn't take the Cavs that long to learn to win when LeBron returned.
they won 50+ games last season for goodness sake.

coincidently enough when you add star players to your roster, you tend to learn how to win pretty quickly.


Given a Lebron-level star player is way out of reach for PHI, I am not sure what the comparison is trying to imply....
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#58 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:48 pm

Worm122 wrote:Spurs with David Robinson= 20 wins;

Next year Spurs with David Robinson + Tim Duncan = 51 wins;


David Robinson was out for the year when they won 20 games...
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#59 » by jpengland » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:15 pm

Simmons is THAT good, whoever gets him is in prime position going forwards.

If Philly land him, they move Okafor for 3 point shooting and run Simmons at 3 and 4 with Saric, Noel and Embiid eating the other big mins and Covington back up 3. The guard positions will be covered by Olafor trade, the various draft picks and masses of cap space.
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Re: What's Phillies outlook if they get Ben Simmons? 

Post#60 » by swyftdahoe » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:19 pm

Simmons is better than anyone currently on the 76ers. Get him, adjust the rest.

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