Why is Whiteside getting no shots?

Pure_Basketball · Post #1 » by **Pure_Basketball** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:40 am

Now please don't lock this, you mods don't allow us to create any threads outside of post game and gameday threads. This needs some serious discussion because it's getting to the point where it's bordering on ridiculous.

Whiteside tonight was our most effective player on offense despite only getting 9 shots, he made 7 of them for 15 points. He had the least shots out of any of our starters despite playing the most minutes besides Gerald Green. Throughout the entire game I counted 1 post up for Whiteside, 2 at the most.

We had the Detroit Pistons commentators asking why is Whiteside not getting any plays run for him, they asked if the guy is shooting that well, and is comfortable hitting a banker from 15 feet, why he's not having anything go through him. It's a legitimate question, how is Spo and the players getting away with not giving the ball to him when he's shown he's really effective on offense and he has the 2nd highest shooting percentage in the league.

goodboy · Post #2 » by **goodboy** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:45 am

Dragic/Spo.

Dragic tried, I'll give him that, but quits right after when he had terrible attempts to feed him in the start. After that, no attempts were found to feeding him.

Wade had some, but his frustration led to his demise and quit.

Spo - Spo.

Rich2Hassan · Post #3 » by **Rich2Hassan** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:46 am

He's a Black hole.

Pure_Basketball · Post #4 » by **Pure_Basketball** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:47 am

HeatWillRise wrote:Dragic/Spo.

Dragic tried, I'll give him that, but quits right after when he had terrible attempts to feed him in the start. After that, no attempts were found to feeding him.

Wade had some, but his frustration led to his demise and quit.

Spo - Spo.

The passes you're talking about are passes when he's wide open under the rim, I'm asking why the **** we aren't posting him up 30% of the time, he's our biggest weapon.

goodboy · Post #5 » by **goodboy** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:49 am

Pure_Basketball wrote:
HeatWillRise wrote:Dragic/Spo.

Dragic tried, I'll give him that, but quits right after when he had terrible attempts to feed him in the start. After that, no attempts were found to feeding him.

Wade had some, but his frustration led to his demise and quit.

Spo - Spo.

The passes you're talking about are passes when he's wide open under the rim, I'm asking why the **** we aren't posting him up 30% of the time, he's our biggest weapon.

That's all on Spo then. Always has been.

Post #6 » by **KingDavid** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:51 am

It must be something he's doing during practice. Things we can't see as fans.

But they don't run a single play for him to isolate on the block like Detroit does for Drummond.

We ran zero post ups for hassan in a game where no shots were falling. That's poor coaching.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 5

Bishop45 · Post #7 » by **Bishop45** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:57 am

who knows, it was ok at the beginning of the season but he's invisible now

leoshes · Post #8 » by **leoshes** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:22 am

He needs at least 16 attempts at the basket a game, hell even more if it was up to me.

But for that to work defenders must 1st respect the shooting of our starting guards, & i cant see that happening.

Chalm Down · Post #9 » by **Chalm Down** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:26 am

Whatever the reason is, it creates a bad cycle. Whiteside doesn't get involved in offense --> Whiteside becomes less engaged on defense and with setting screens on offense --> Whiteside gets less playing time due to poor effort (for his standards at least)...rinse and repeat.

Bishop45 · Post #10 » by **Bishop45** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:38 am

Chalm Down wrote:

Whatever the reason is, it creates a bad cycle. Whiteside doesn't get involved in offense --> Whiteside becomes less engaged on defense and with setting screens on offense --> Whiteside gets less playing time due to poor effort (for his standards at least)...rinse and repeat.

He seems to be more involved defensively when he actually gets some rec. on offense... Not sure why he's not while on a team struggling offensively

????

EscapoTHB · Post #11 » by **EscapoTHB** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:00 am

The thing I don't get is why they don't use him when things aren't going well from outside. Ostensibly you use a center for high percentage scores when you are in a drought. Everything from Whiteside suggests that if you get him the ball, he'll probably score. Why not use him to stop more runs?

It's really strange. Wade is the only one who really looks for him, and that's only on pick and rolls. Why him posting up isn't a part of our offense is completely baffling to me. I know he doesn't pass once he gets the ball--but maybe if he got it more, he might pass it more? My sense is that whenever he gets the ball, he feels like it's one of the few times he's going to get it, so he tries to do work with it. I dunno. It's stupid and annoying. We have one of the better offensively skilled scoring centers, but we don't use nearly enough. Particularly when we are struggling.

I blame our PG as much as our coach though. It's kind of the job of the PG to set that kind of thing up. Be the leader on the floor, and know when the big man needs a touch. Dragic has been invisible as a floor general this year. Wade's our real point guard, and he isn't a point guard. I mean if Whiteside was playing with like...Ricky Rubio you can bet he would be getting all kinds of looks.

Pure_Basketball · Post #12 » by **Pure_Basketball** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:32 am

I think we ran more post ups for Joel Anthony when he was here than Whiteside.

Slot Machine · Post #13 » by **Slot Machine** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:30 am

We run more post-ups for Luol Deng than we do for Whiteside.

Dragic also has no idea how to get the ball to Whiteside via the pick-and-roll. It's pretty puzzling how bad their chemistry is.

phrazbit · Post #14 » by **phrazbit** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:46 am

Dragic is awful at interior passes, its part of why he struggles so much in half court sets. When he and Plumlee and Bledsoe were together there were times where Plumlee looked like a serviceable player and other times where he looked like complete and utter trash, when Bledsoe went down for about 2 months we figured it out. When Bled was in Plumlee got some easy baskets and got engaged (and Bledsoe is no maestro at assisting either), when Dragic was in whoever was in the paint may as well not exist, the only thing they did was hamper his ability to drive to the hoop. He works well with pick and pop guys, but the pick and roll... as in roll to the hoop, does not translate for Dragic at all. I'm not at trying to claim that Plumlee is anywhere near the player Whiteside is, but in relation to the way Dragic functions with interior players the relationship is similar... as in... there isn't one.

Dragic should probably get most of his PT in lineups with Bosh as the only big, no Wade and whatever wings you have that can shoot the 3 decently and run the court. Sure, you'll probably get murdered defensively but it would be a difficult pace adjustment for the opposition when compared to the plodding Wade/Deng/Whiteside set. But I don't know if Dragic's rather fragile psyche would endure getting most of his PT with the subs.

DWadeno3 · Post #15 » by **DWadeno3** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:25 pm

phrazbit wrote:Dragic is awful at interior passes, its part of why he struggles so much in half court sets. When he and Plumlee and Bledsoe were together there were times where Plumlee looked like a serviceable player and other times where he looked like complete and utter trash, when Bledsoe went down for about 2 months we figured it out. When Bled was in Plumlee got some easy baskets and got engaged (and Bledsoe is no maestro at assisting either), when Dragic was in whoever was in the paint may as well not exist, the only thing they did was hamper his ability to drive to the hoop. He works well with pick and pop guys, but the pick and roll... as in roll to the hoop, does not translate for Dragic at all. I'm not at trying to claim that Plumlee is anywhere near the player Whiteside is, but in relation to the way Dragic functions with interior players the relationship is similar... as in... there isn't one.

Dragic should probably get most of his PT in lineups with Bosh as the only big, no Wade and whatever wings you have that can shoot the 3 decently and run the court. Sure, you'll probably get murdered defensively but it would be a difficult pace adjustment for the opposition when compared to the plodding Wade/Deng/Whiteside set. But I don't know if Dragic's rather fragile psyche would endure getting most of his PT with the subs.

I'd agree with this. Dragic having become the main ball handler with the starters, probably to accommodate him, has hurt both Wade and Whiteside. I would go as far as saying we should start Tyler Johnson and have Dragic come off the bench to play with the likes of Bosh, McRoberts, Deng and Winslow occupying the 4/5 spots. The time Wade and Whiteside spend on the court together should be maximized, while the time Dragic spends with either should be minimized.

Bourne85 · Post #16 » by **Bourne85** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:06 pm

Idk but you Spo lovers can all thank him this offseason when Whiteside leaves us.

It's really strange because Spo, as the video coordinator that he is, and as the stat guy that he is, you would think he could see that Whiteside is scoring 70% of his shots. Any reasonable "coach" would suggest to his team to at the very minimum run at least a few more plays for him.

Spo is doing an ass job this season. He hasn't been able to find a way to get Dragic going, bosh looks like an absolute scrub, Wade is having more and more crappy games. Mcbob was actually a quality player in the Bobcats, yet somehow here Mcbob looks worse than Beasley.

We severely underachieved during our big 3 as well. That team was capable of much more. It looks good cuz we got to the finals every year. But that's no rose and a crappy pacer team was all that stood in our way.

We are gonna lose Whiteside guys, and I'm NOT ok with that. Spo is going to cost us a top 3 center. Just like he cost us Lebron.

Bourne85 · Post #17 » by **Bourne85** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Let's be real here. Like it or not there will be multiple teams offering Whiteside the max. Those teams will get meetings. They will brain wash him that he will be features much more and they will point out how we are misusing him. He will bolt. I wouldn't blame him, I don't blame lbj either. I would have a hard time listening to this video coordinator myself.

I see Cuban maxing him easily

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #18 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:10 pm

Bourne85 wrote:Idk but you Spo lovers can all thank him this offseason when Whiteside leaves us.

It's really strange because Spo, as the video coordinator that he is, and as the stat guy that he is, you would think he could see that Whiteside is scoring 70% of his shots. Any reasonable "coach" would suggest to his team to at the very minimum run at least a few more plays for him.

Spo is doing an ass job this season. He hasn't been able to find a way to get Dragic going, bosh looks like an absolute scrub, Wade is having more and more crappy games. Mcbob was actually a quality player in the Bobcats, yet somehow here Mcbob looks worse than Beasley.

We severely underachieved during our big 3 as well. That team was capable of much more. It looks good cuz we got to the finals every year. But that's no rose and a crappy pacer team was all that stood in our way.

We are gonna lose Whiteside guys, and I'm NOT ok with that. Spo is going to cost us a top 3 center. Just like he cost us Lebron.

Yet you keep watching :lol:

Post #19 » by **KingDavid** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:19 pm

Heat_Fan_87 wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:Idk but you Spo lovers can all thank him this offseason when Whiteside leaves us.

It's really strange because Spo, as the video coordinator that he is, and as the stat guy that he is, you would think he could see that Whiteside is scoring 70% of his shots. Any reasonable "coach" would suggest to his team to at the very minimum run at least a few more plays for him.

Spo is doing an ass job this season. He hasn't been able to find a way to get Dragic going, bosh looks like an absolute scrub, Wade is having more and more crappy games. Mcbob was actually a quality player in the Bobcats, yet somehow here Mcbob looks worse than Beasley.

We severely underachieved during our big 3 as well. That team was capable of much more. It looks good cuz we got to the finals every year. But that's no rose and a crappy pacer team was all that stood in our way.

We are gonna lose Whiteside guys, and I'm NOT ok with that. Spo is going to cost us a top 3 center. Just like he cost us Lebron.

Yet you keep watching

Organization > All.

For as crazy as Bourne sounds at times, he's truly a fan.

Heat_Fan_87 · Post #20 » by **Heat_Fan_87** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:22 pm

KingDavid wrote:
Heat_Fan_87 wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:Idk but you Spo lovers can all thank him this offseason when Whiteside leaves us.

It's really strange because Spo, as the video coordinator that he is, and as the stat guy that he is, you would think he could see that Whiteside is scoring 70% of his shots. Any reasonable "coach" would suggest to his team to at the very minimum run at least a few more plays for him.

Spo is doing an ass job this season. He hasn't been able to find a way to get Dragic going, bosh looks like an absolute scrub, Wade is having more and more crappy games. Mcbob was actually a quality player in the Bobcats, yet somehow here Mcbob looks worse than Beasley.

We severely underachieved during our big 3 as well. That team was capable of much more. It looks good cuz we got to the finals every year. But that's no rose and a crappy pacer team was all that stood in our way.

We are gonna lose Whiteside guys, and I'm NOT ok with that. Spo is going to cost us a top 3 center. Just like he cost us Lebron.

Yet you keep watching

Organization > All.

For as crazy as Bourne sounds at times, he's truly a fan.

Anyone that is on a Heat forum is a fan... i always find the crying about spo funny tho