What do you think are this team's biggest issues right now, in order?

nickhx2 · Post #1 » by **nickhx2** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:05 am

Clearly we are, at the moment, underachieving. Maybe you think it's a big deal, maybe you think it's par for course, but to me that's a different conversation so it's irrelevant to this topic.

What issues do you think are contributing most to our current start? The issues could literally be anything you can think of, and I'm curious how you guys would prioritize them. List as many as you like.

For me it's

1. doc's rotation management
2. dj regressing (imo) instead of taking the next step
3. injuries to blake/cp3/jj
4. the team trying to get used to a new defensive system
5. lance being tentative instead of trying to be indy lance
6. people just need to play a lot better overall/or we're really just not as talented as we thought
7. too many new faces to integrate

I should add that for me it goes something like 1 >>>> 2 >>>>> 3 > 4 > 5 > 6 >>>>>> 7, if i had to put arbitrary arrows comparing them to each other. I also would like to add that real far down the line as my #8 is i think the coaching may currently be starting to be tuned out. But i say that's far down the line because that's just an unsubstantiated concern of losing 3 in a row with the last two a factor of effort, and there are quite a few ebbs and flows through any team's regular season.

mattd13 · Post #2 » by **mattd13** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:41 pm

nick, I think you are spot on however I would add that I always felt lance would not make it. I also see cp3 and blake keep getting beat to the basket. before we get it right that has to change. dj has his money and has gone back to being lazy. the second unit needs to have structure and not a free hand to shoot. josh should never be at the 3 point line. those guys need to have a defined role and that is on doc. at this point I would give the coaching a big F. I think cp3 is trying to do too much late in close games and is making to many mistakes. the team has no solid plan late and again the coach has to fix it.

Post #3 » by **og15** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:57 pm

1) Team makeup
2) Rotations
3) Defense
4) Everything else

Doc got a glut of on-ball guards that don't fit together, and I'll give him all the props in the world if he makes them fit and become productive, but when disucssing in the off-season, we all felt that there was bound to be an odd man out who would not be happy out of Austin, Crawford and Lance. I thought it would be Jamal, but Doc obviously loved the guy too much for some odd reason.

Rotations sort of plays into the team makeup. Doc built the team in a way that in order to make all his players happy, he's having to throw out some wack lineups. I don't have a problem with Austin, but the kid is an AWFUL PG, and at least last season he tried to be a playmaker, but he's just given up on that now. Jamal is essentially the PG when Paul is on the bench because of how the team is built, and Jamal is a good passer, but also an awful PG.

The defense is interesting. I liked the idea of switching up to a less tasking defense, but if you look at some breakdowns, there are a lot of bad communication errors going on. It's one thing to be getting used to the defense and it is another thing to be making stupid mistakes because guys aren't talking to each other. Too many of those going on. Like QRich always mentions, DJ is also not the best at making the right reads, and sometimes it seems like his reaction time is a little slow. Let's just look at the Warriors game for example and check out DJ's mistakes to end the game:
1) cheats over to the 3PT line in the inbounds play for no reason at all letting Green cut behind him for a layup
2) gets switched on the Curry and tries to reach in and steal the ball from Curry, seriously?

Earlier in the game he also had a situation where he just didn't give help when he easily could have.

Austin has given energy on defense, and nickh mentioned that there are some defensive numbers that show well for him, but his team defense sometimes puzzles me. Again, looks like lack of communication with the players.

Post #4 » by **og15** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:59 pm

mattd13 wrote:nick, I think you are spot on however I would add that I always felt lance would not make it. I also see cp3 and blake keep getting beat to the basket. before we get it right that has to change. dj has his money and has gone back to being lazy. the second unit needs to have structure and not a free hand to shoot. josh should never be at the 3 point line. those guys need to have a defined role and that is on doc. at this point I would give the coaching a big F. I think cp3 is trying to do too much late in close games and is making to many mistakes. the team has no solid plan late and again the coach has to fix it.

This does surprise me for sure. The second unit seems to just be allowed to freestyle, but maybe that's also because their primary ball handlers are Jamal Crawford and Austin Rivers, but they just go out there and do whatever, and it looks pretty bad most of the time, and then sometimes since it can't always suck, they make shots. It would be nice for them to have a plan and set roles.

Post #5 » by **QRich3** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:07 pm

Awesome breakdown by og15 as usual. I'd rank our problems probably the same way I would've the past 3/4 seasons, just in a more emphatic way:

1- Wing defense
2- Pick'n'roll defense
3- Rim protection
4- Of course, roster structure, which causes most of the previous 3

Rotations can be improved, but like I've been saying, and you're all probably tired of reading from me, I don't think it's as big a deal as any of the previous ones.

Even in times like these when we're sucking hard, we're still a top 5 offense right now. The starting line-up with Lance at the 3 is one of the most effective in the league, which proves that offensively, you can almost plug anyone with our core 4 and we'll keep being a top offense. The problem is, as we've been complaining about since we got Paul, we don't have a wing capable of defending half decently. We have two inconsistent bigs that leak in the pick'n'roll no matter what system you try to put them on. They've sucked with Vinny's blitzing system, with last year's hedging one, DJ sucks when holding back, Blake sucks when switching too, basically this is a problem of defensive talent from our bigs. As elite as they are defensively, and as much as they show flashes of being great every once in a while, they are not capable of being consistently good. Then, on top of that, our interior help defense is not great either, DJ and Smith are way too eager to go for the highlight block and leave the lane open, Blake has short arms and is not great at intimidating, and our 4th big is... Pierce?

Obviously, all of that can be pegged to roster construction, cause Wes and Lance could be fine as back up defensive wings, but they're playing behind Crawford and Pierce, so they have to be the best defenders we have at the wing. Like I said many times, you can't do miracles with rotations if the talent's not there, so that's the last of my worries right now.

Re: Austin, I wanted him gone in the offseason, and I didn't want him here in the first place, and to be honest if he could be traded I'd be happy. He's a decent rotation player, a pesky man to man defender, and can get hot on offense from time to time, so it's nothing of this meme casual fans have with him. He's just not the type of player we need with the way our roster is constructed, and even if Jamal was traded out of here, Austin's best skills would be superfluous with Lance/Pierce/Prignoni here. It's good that his SportVU defensive numbers look nice, but those can be misleading, since they only track how close you are to the guy that takes the shot, not if you're actually defending him. I remember Bullock used to have crazy good numbers on that department, and he hasn't developed into much of a wing stopper. Austin is just the same type of defender Lance is, he's great when the spotlight is on him, if someone is trying to cross him over 1-on-1, etc. but he's not great at navigating through screens, taking quick decisions on rotations, or guarding the P&R. I like the kid, he has a future in this league, I just hope it's not here.

nickhx2 · Post #6 » by **nickhx2** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:29 pm

og15 wrote:
mattd13 wrote:nick, I think you are spot on however I would add that I always felt lance would not make it. I also see cp3 and blake keep getting beat to the basket. before we get it right that has to change. dj has his money and has gone back to being lazy. the second unit needs to have structure and not a free hand to shoot. josh should never be at the 3 point line. those guys need to have a defined role and that is on doc. at this point I would give the coaching a big F. I think cp3 is trying to do too much late in close games and is making to many mistakes. the team has no solid plan late and again the coach has to fix it.

This does surprise me for sure. The second unit seems to just be allowed to freestyle, but maybe that's also because their primary ball handlers are Jamal Crawford and Austin Rivers, but they just go out there and do whatever, and it looks pretty bad most of the time, and then sometimes since it can't always suck, they make shots. It would be nice for them to have a plan and set roles.

This is a thing that i forgot to add on, but seems to be a sentiment that is echoed in varying forms. There's a distinct lack of structure and i think a lot of that has to do with our lack of actual practice time. Honestly you could see it would be a problem early in preseason when doc/jamal said something to the effect of "we don't know who is handling or creating so opponents don't know either!" intimating that it was an acceptable offensive strategy, LOL

I would really, really, really like the coach to prioritize practice instead of griping how the team needs it but canceling them out anyway. I get the idea that veteran teams don't need to practice as much and can thus reduce the grind of the regular season, but that's if they're doing things right to begin with. This team is not doing enough right to warrant days off. You don't fix lazy play on the court by working less hard away from the court.

fwiw as long as rivers has been coach here, he's had crawford off the bench and i don't think our second unit has ever had any structure. but it certainly seems even worse this time around.

TucsonClip · Post #7 » by **TucsonClip** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:23 pm

1. Chemistry

Wammy Giveaway · Post #8 » by **Wammy Giveaway** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:08 pm

1. Chemistry - The team clearly hates each other right now. Pieces don't fit, hero ball abound, forced lineups, players just don't trust each other, and they don't get along. We already had a yelling confrontation between Josh Smith and an unnamed assistant coach (my guess is his former Hawks coach Mike Woodson, but Lawrence Frank gets a nod as well having already lost the locker room once before with the Brooklyn Nets). Trades may have to come sooner than later, but with a very short trade window (January 15 - February 18) due to the re-signing of Austin Rivers and getting DeAndre Jordan back from the Dallas Mavericks via free agency, bad vibes are going to continue.

2. Personal Interest - Doc Rivers loves Paul Pierce too much, he has put his Celtics past ahead of the Clipper's playoff hopes. Did he bring him here to help the team or to be a rabbit's foot? Jamal Crawford defeated Doc's Big 3 Celtics years ago. Is he hoping against hope that the Crawford who defeated his Celtics rises from the grave, or is he really trying to trade him for a superstar? Austin Rivers is getting increased minutes unlike ever before. Did his playoff heroics contribute to more playing time, or has the Father side of Doc Rivers compromised both the Coach and President sides of Doc Rivers? In other words, is Doc abusing his powers? Finally, did DeAndre Jordan come back because the Clippers were honest, or because of his friendship with Blake Griffin? Personal interests within the team has been a distraction.

3. The Eddie Guerrero Syndrome - "They lie, they cheat, they steal!" They rig games, or at least try to, to steal wins that are undeserved. They bait opponents into fouls or technical fouls in hopes of getting them fouled out, or worse, ejected from a game. The annoying, whining composure of Doc Rivers has sewn onto the Clipper's minds in thinking that the way to win games is to intimidate the officials. All it has done is backfire. Clippers are presumably the league leader in technical fouls again, but now, they are confirmed as the league leader in ejections, tying for 1st place along with the Hornets and Blazers with 1 a piece.

4. Fear, Fear, Fear - The Clippers are afraid to win. When there were chances that they could have taken the lead or taken advantage of a weak opposition, they tight up tighter than tights. They second guess themselves and play hot potato with more urgency to monitor the team's final score than taking care of their opponent. They're afraid that a scrub will turn into a superstar for a day, or something bad will happen to the team because they're winning lopsidedly. There is also a fear of getting ejected. Players, and especially the coach, are so afraid that if they got ejected from a game, their careers would be over and exposed as frauds, with an increased worry that they would be traded and possibly out of the league within a year. The Clippers must face their fears appropriately. Ejections do not mean the end of the world - think of it as the pivotal "Come to Jesus". For Blake Griffin, who already got ejected on his own accord, he has stopped getting technical fouls ever since that dreadful Suns game. As for overcoming their fear of the clutch, that's easier said than done.

LACtdom · Post #9 » by **LACtdom** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:26 pm

nickhx2 wrote:
og15 wrote:
mattd13 wrote:nick, I think you are spot on however I would add that I always felt lance would not make it. I also see cp3 and blake keep getting beat to the basket. before we get it right that has to change. dj has his money and has gone back to being lazy. the second unit needs to have structure and not a free hand to shoot. josh should never be at the 3 point line. those guys need to have a defined role and that is on doc. at this point I would give the coaching a big F. I think cp3 is trying to do too much late in close games and is making to many mistakes. the team has no solid plan late and again the coach has to fix it.

This does surprise me for sure. The second unit seems to just be allowed to freestyle, but maybe that's also because their primary ball handlers are Jamal Crawford and Austin Rivers, but they just go out there and do whatever, and it looks pretty bad most of the time, and then sometimes since it can't always suck, they make shots. It would be nice for them to have a plan and set roles.

This is a thing that i forgot to add on, but seems to be a sentiment that is echoed in varying forms. There's a distinct lack of structure and i think a lot of that has to do with our lack of actual practice time. Honestly you could see it would be a problem early in preseason when doc/jamal said something to the effect of "we don't know who is handling or creating so opponents don't know either!" intimating that it was an acceptable offensive strategy, LOL

I would really, really, really like the coach to prioritize practice instead of griping how the team needs it but canceling them out anyway. I get the idea that veteran teams don't need to practice as much and can thus reduce the grind of the regular season, but that's if they're doing things right to begin with. This team is not doing enough right to warrant days off. You don't fix lazy play on the court by working less hard away from the court.

fwiw as long as rivers has been coach here, he's had crawford off the bench and i don't think our second unit has ever had any structure. but it certainly seems even worse this time around.

1. Plays (more specifically, bench plays)

My least favourite quote from Doc was just before game 1 when said that the team was so new that they only practiced ONE play (and it shows). I think we rely too much on jump shooting and shots falling. Before you say how good our offense is, winning by 50 and then losing by 1 is the same as winning by 1 and losing by 50. Even though our offense is great, there are times when we need an easy basket and we can't get it because our jump shots aren't falling. Our starters are quite competent so they can get away with it but there is no way our bench can. Winning and losing shouldn't be decided on whether Jamal is hot or Smith's 3's are finally going in.

mattd13 · Post #10 » by **mattd13** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:56 pm

these guys have been playing forever. it is not rocket science. I would tell josh to not get more than 10 feet from the basket and defend and rebound. if you shoot a 3 then you are finished in la. I would have that kind of conversation with each one and see who wants to stay.

Post #11 » by **og15** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:26 pm

mattd13 wrote:these guys have been playing forever. it is not rocket science. I would tell josh to not get more than 10 feet from the basket and defend and rebound. if you shoot a 3 then you are finished in la. I would have that kind of conversation with each one and see who wants to stay.

You can only do that if you have backup options if they don't agree

LACtdom · Post #12 » by **LACtdom** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:35 am

og15 wrote:
mattd13 wrote:these guys have been playing forever. it is not rocket science. I would tell josh to not get more than 10 feet from the basket and defend and rebound. if you shoot a 3 then you are finished in la. I would have that kind of conversation with each one and see who wants to stay.

You can only do that if you have backup options if they don't agree

Mullens, Hawes & Smith were all brought in to spread the floor and I doubt Doc will change his thinking. Our problem is we lack the skill to execute this. Unless Doc changes his strategy then our two options are: 1) keep chopping and changing the roster until we have bigs that can consistently shoot 3s; 2) Practice, practice and a lot more practice. Curry shoots 100 makes from deep each training session. I hope Doc is making sure our players are putting in the effort behind the scenes. If Josh Smith could shoot at 35%, it would do wonders for our bench.

Post #13 » by **og15** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:44 am

I hope he didn't seriously bring in Smith to spread the floor, that wouldn't make much sense. Smith is a career 28.5% 3PT shooter with a high of 33%, no way he could have been expecting him to be a stretch big. He even has Woodson as an assistant, Woodson who one season didn't even let Josh shoot three's.

I think he brought Josh for the defense and versatility. Josh has been good defensively, but playing C doesn't help him too much.

DLaren · Post #14 » by **DLaren** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:15 am

1) The best offensive player AND best defensive player on our team is 5'10.

This has been a problem for four years...

nickhx2 · Post #15 » by **nickhx2** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:25 pm

DLaren wrote:1) The best offensive player AND best defensive player on our team is 5'10.

This has been a problem for four years...

this matters why?

Quake Griffin · Post #16 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:50 am

flawed roster.

Mark Davis folded two pieces of paper at the upper right and upper left edges and told Reggie McKenzie that he needs to get him 2 corners.

Find me 2 corners Doc aka a 3 man.
No other spit and glue remedy is going to make up for it.

Little Digger · Post #17 » by **Little Digger** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:15 am

I don't see Doc Rivers the head coach as being the problem..What's he supposed to do with the rotation..Clips are loaded at the top with one of the best 3 man combos in the game..But 4-12 in the rotation are absolutely God awful..I cant even believe how bad....

The #1 problem is the GM Glenn Rivers..That dude ruined these last couple years for you guys,,

nickhx2 · Post #18 » by **nickhx2** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:49 am

Little Digger wrote:I don't see Doc Rivers the head coach as being the problem..What's he supposed to do with the rotation..Clips are loaded at the top with one of the best 3 man combos in the game..But 4-12 in the rotation are absolutely God awful..I cant even believe how bad....

The #1 problem is the GM Glenn Rivers..That dude ruined these last couple years for you guys,,

coaches in most sports generally play their best players more than their worst players. so he could start there.

p.s. jj was bad tonight but he is of vital importance to this team. the rest range from whatever to dumpster fire bad.

Quake Griffin · Post #19 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:41 pm

nickhx2 wrote:
DLaren wrote:1) The best offensive player AND best defensive player on our team is 5'10.

This has been a problem for four years...

this matters why?

because the drop off from his talent defensively to the next best defensive player on our team is too much.

Who is the next best defensive player on our team? (not a rhetorical question).
just lol. ESPN will probably say DeAndre but they more than likely think he's the best defensive player on our team.
Blake? Austin?

again.
just lol.

nickhx2 · Post #20 » by **nickhx2** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:24 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:
nickhx2 wrote:
DLaren wrote:1) The best offensive player AND best defensive player on our team is 5'10.

This has been a problem for four years...

this matters why?

because the drop off from his talent defensively to the next best defensive player on our team is too much.

Who is the next best defensive player on our team? (not a rhetorical question).
just lol. ESPN will probably say DeAndre but they more than likely think he's the best defensive player on our team.
Blake? Austin?

again.
just lol.

pretty sure he's trying to imply that cause he's a short ballplayer he can't have meaningful impact.