Dionner Navarro... to the White Sox

[bringbackhoffa]

With the recent free agent signings of the following back up catchers: Soto and Avilia coming in at around 1 year and $2.5 million do you see a circumstance where we could re-sign Navarro at a price less than we paid him last year.

I know he has indicated that he would like to start, however there are not many opportunities out there which could play out in the Jays favour.



Added by TheDoctor via Xaos in the other thread:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/672406675484229632[/tweet]

[bluerap23]

I think it will be a wait and see for both sides. We will both wait and see if he can get a starting job. If not, I think he will be resigned as our backup which would be great.

[The_Hater]

I think it's highly unlikely that he returns. If any team gives him a starting gig or at least a job share then that would be a prefered situation for DN. Even if he does want to return, his salary demands will probably exceed what will be allocated for the b/u C spot.

[bluerap23]

I think it's highly unlikely that he returns. If any team gives him a starting gig or at least a job share then that would be a prefered situation for DN. Even if he does want to return, his salary demands will probably exceed what will be allocated for the b/u C spot.

IDK
would you rather pay 1.8 for Thole or 2.5 for Dionner?

[The_Hater]

I think it's highly unlikely that he returns. If any team gives him a starting gig or at least a job share then that would be a prefered situation for DN. Even if he does want to return, his salary demands will probably exceed what will be allocated for the b/u C spot.

IDK
would you rather pay 1.8 for Thole or 2.5 for Dionner?

Good point but that's assuming DN will sign for 2.5. I think they'd probably rather have a C getting the minimum than either of those options so they can upgrade the pitching staff further. I whichever direction they go I would hope that Thole isn't on the roster at $1.8.

[torontoaces04]

Picks: 323, 338
Eric Bledsoe
Demar derozan
Josh Smith
Andrew Bogut
PJ Tucker
Lou Williams
Kevin Garnett
Trey Burke
Andrea Bargnani
Bruno Cabolco

That squad is hurtin' fam.

[Randle McMurphy]

As long as Dickey is on the team, I would expect Thole to be the backup. Difficult to see them letting Martin catch RA again for another season after the toll it took on him.

[Parataxis]

As long as Dickey is on the team, I would expect Thole to be the backup. Difficult to see them letting Martin catch RA again for another season after the toll it took on him.

IF that's the case, I fully support letting Dickey hit, and DHing for Thole. #jokingnotjoking

[Raptor_Guy]

As long as Dickey is on the team, I would expect Thole to be the backup. Difficult to see them letting Martin catch RA again for another season after the toll it took on him.

Ugh

[TBRunGood]

Picks: 323, 338
Eric Bledsoe
Demar derozan
Josh Smith
Andrew Bogut
PJ Tucker
Lou Williams
Kevin Garnett
Trey Burke
Andrea Bargnani
Bruno Cabolco

That squad is hurtin' fam.

Maybe not if it's a 30 team league lol

[Patman]

Picks: 323, 338
Eric Bledsoe
Demar derozan
Josh Smith
Andrew Bogut
PJ Tucker
Lou Williams
Kevin Garnett
Trey Burke
Andrea Bargnani
Bruno Cabolco

That squad is hurtin' fam.

Goodness. This looks a team that people would think was good pre-analytics.

[Natural11]

As long as Dickey is on the team, I would expect Thole to be the backup. Difficult to see them letting Martin catch RA again for another season after the toll it took on him.

IF that's the case, I fully support letting Dickey hit, and DHing for Thole. #jokingnotjoking

I had this thought earlier and actually looked up the rule. Unfortunately, it is not allowed.

[North_of_Border]

Navarro is an under average starter at this point in his career but for a backup he is as good as you can get.... He is a borderline starter. Lock him up for 2 years at that rate

[Santoki]

As long as Dickey is on the team, I would expect Thole to be the backup. Difficult to see them letting Martin catch RA again for another season after the toll it took on him.

This is why I assume there's been some Dickey trade chatter by the beat guys. I'm sure they don't want Thole on the roster, but know they can't let Martin continue to catch Dickey. It makes the Chavez trade make a lot more sense, but then you'd have to replace Dickey with another starter than can give you 200 at least league average innings. Not sure that's as easy to make up as the difference between Thole and Navarro but I bet they try the best they can.

This is all assuming that Navarro wants to come back to a situation where he knows the most playing time he's getting is 2/5 days. If he can go somewhere where he has at least a chance at the starting job at a slightly higher salary, I'm sure he takes it. I don't know if that market will play itself out before the pitcher's market though.

[Randle McMurphy]

As long as Dickey is on the team, I would expect Thole to be the backup. Difficult to see them letting Martin catch RA again for another season after the toll it took on him.

This is why I assume there's been some Dickey trade chatter by the beat guys. I'm sure they don't want Thole on the roster, but know they can't let Martin continue to catch Dickey. It makes the Chavez trade make a lot more sense, but then you'd have to replace Dickey with another starter than can give you 200 at least league average innings. Not sure that's as easy to make up as the difference between Thole and Navarro but I bet they try the best they can.

This is all assuming that Navarro wants to come back to a situation where he knows the most playing time he's getting is 2/5 days. If he can go somewhere where he has at least a chance at the starting job at a slightly higher salary, I'm sure he takes it. I don't know if that market will play itself out before the pitcher's market though.

If they had more than 3 or 4 reliable starting pitchers for 2016 in the entire organization, trading Dickey might be a more tenable option. As it stands, though, he'll be back and so logically will Thole. Realistically, Navarro just doesn't fit here.

[The_Hater]

As long as Dickey is on the team, I would expect Thole to be the backup. Difficult to see them letting Martin catch RA again for another season after the toll it took on him.

This is why I assume there's been some Dickey trade chatter by the beat guys. I'm sure they don't want Thole on the roster, but know they can't let Martin continue to catch Dickey. It makes the Chavez trade make a lot more sense, but then you'd have to replace Dickey with another starter than can give you 200 at least league average innings. Not sure that's as easy to make up as the difference between Thole and Navarro but I bet they try the best they can.

This is all assuming that Navarro wants to come back to a situation where he knows the most playing time he's getting is 2/5 days. If he can go somewhere where he has at least a chance at the starting job at a slightly higher salary, I'm sure he takes it. I don't know if that market will play itself out before the pitcher's market though.

If they had more than 3 or 4 reliable starting pitchers for 2016 in the entire organization, trading Dickey might be a more tenable option. As it stands, though, he'll be back and so logically will Thole. Realistically, Navarro just doesn't fit here.

Isn't there a 4th option? A minimum wage catcher who can catch the knuckle but hit is good or better than Thole? It's not like Dickey pitched better with his personal caddy last season so that excuse should be gone.

[Randle McMurphy]

This is why I assume there's been some Dickey trade chatter by the beat guys. I'm sure they don't want Thole on the roster, but know they can't let Martin continue to catch Dickey. It makes the Chavez trade make a lot more sense, but then you'd have to replace Dickey with another starter than can give you 200 at least league average innings. Not sure that's as easy to make up as the difference between Thole and Navarro but I bet they try the best they can.

This is all assuming that Navarro wants to come back to a situation where he knows the most playing time he's getting is 2/5 days. If he can go somewhere where he has at least a chance at the starting job at a slightly higher salary, I'm sure he takes it. I don't know if that market will play itself out before the pitcher's market though.

If they had more than 3 or 4 reliable starting pitchers for 2016 in the entire organization, trading Dickey might be a more tenable option. As it stands, though, he'll be back and so logically will Thole. Realistically, Navarro just doesn't fit here.

Isn't there a 4th option? A minimum wage catcher who can catch the knuckle but hit is good or better than Thole? It's not like Dickey pitched better with his personal caddy last season so that excuse should be gone.

The problem with that is there aren't apparently that many guys who can adequately catch the KB. Boston found that out the hard way with Wakefield when they went with Josh Bard (which ended up far worse than JPA) and had to trade quite a bit to bring Doug Mirabelli back from the Padres mid-season.

[TBRunGood]

This is why I assume there's been some Dickey trade chatter by the beat guys. I'm sure they don't want Thole on the roster, but know they can't let Martin continue to catch Dickey. It makes the Chavez trade make a lot more sense, but then you'd have to replace Dickey with another starter than can give you 200 at least league average innings. Not sure that's as easy to make up as the difference between Thole and Navarro but I bet they try the best they can.

This is all assuming that Navarro wants to come back to a situation where he knows the most playing time he's getting is 2/5 days. If he can go somewhere where he has at least a chance at the starting job at a slightly higher salary, I'm sure he takes it. I don't know if that market will play itself out before the pitcher's market though.

If they had more than 3 or 4 reliable starting pitchers for 2016 in the entire organization, trading Dickey might be a more tenable option. As it stands, though, he'll be back and so logically will Thole. Realistically, Navarro just doesn't fit here.

Isn't there a 4th option? A minimum wage catcher who can catch the knuckle but hit is good or better than Thole? It's not like Dickey pitched better with his personal caddy last season so that excuse should be gone.

This sounds like all the people who think it's so easy to replicate Golden State's success by just going small. How many catchers in the league do you think are capable of what you're asking for, and then how many of those guys do you think already a) aren't on a roster and b) stupid enough to sign for minimum wage?

[The_Hater]

If they had more than 3 or 4 reliable starting pitchers for 2016 in the entire organization, trading Dickey might be a more tenable option. As it stands, though, he'll be back and so logically will Thole. Realistically, Navarro just doesn't fit here.

Isn't there a 4th option? A minimum wage catcher who can catch the knuckle but hit is good or better than Thole? It's not like Dickey pitched better with his personal caddy last season so that excuse should be gone.

This sounds like all the people who think it's so easy to replicate Golden State's success by just going small. How many catchers in the league do you think are capable of what you're asking for, and then how many of those guys do you think already a) aren't on a roster and b) stupid enough to sign for minimum wage?

What a terrible analogy. Cross sports analogies are usually dumb to begin with but this reached a whole new level of stupid.

And to answer your question, since there isn't a lot of knuckleballers around then yes, a poor hitting catcher with that skill could come cheap. Just like Thole would be a cheap pickup right for some team if the jays didn't want him. Baseball isn't basketball, effective minimum wage and AAA players who can fill a role on some other 25 deep roster move from team to team all the time.

[TBRunGood]

Isn't there a 4th option? A minimum wage catcher who can catch the knuckle but hit is good or better than Thole? It's not like Dickey pitched better with his personal caddy last season so that excuse should be gone.

This sounds like all the people who think it's so easy to replicate Golden State's success by just going small. How many catchers in the league do you think are capable of what you're asking for, and then how many of those guys do you think already a) aren't on a roster and b) stupid enough to sign for minimum wage?

What a terrible analogy. Cross sports analogies are usually dumb to begin with but this reached a whole new level of stupid.

And to answer your question, since there isn't a lot of knuckleballers around then yes, a poor hitting catcher with that skill could come cheap. Just like Thole would be a cheap pickup right for some team if the jays didn't want him. Baseball isn't basketball, effective minimum wage and AAA players who can fill a role on some other 25 deep roster move from team to team all the time.

Yea, they're so common that Thole has been shipped off and had to come back multiple times because they had soooooo many options. Why is Thole even on the roster if a single word you said is true? Hmm, maybe because its actually harder than you think to get someone better than Thole. How bout some names and targets before you start berating while making ignorant statements ?

And I made that analogy not because of the sport but because you're being an idiot like those people are. This isn't personal catching. This is a skill that not many people are capable of doing without experience. And you just brush it off like any clown with a mitt can do it for minimum wage. Guess what,a top 2 catcher in the AL couldn't do it without destroying his body, what makes you think any AAA scrub can do it just like that