GT #13: Wizards @ Celtics 7:30 PM (CSN/99.1 FM) [11/27/15]

[Sluggerface]

Think about where he's coming from.. Wall is asked to play off the ball yes, but he's not exactly passing it off to Kevin Durant.

He's being asked to play off the ball and pass to scrubs like Humphries, Dudley, Neal to take terrible shots.

Let me state it more clearly: The Wizards offense is built around Wall changing his game for scrubs who are playing for 1yr contracts so they can extend their mediocre careers



That's what's happening here. You can say 'tough titties' all you want, but at the end of the day we know that's not how it works - the NBA is a player's league. Wall is the franchise player and 100x more valuable to the Wizards than Wittman is. So if this development continues and Wall continues to visibly show his frustration, you can bet your house that there will be swift and sweeping changes.

It doesn't matter if he's passing it off to scrubs. It's a simple fact of excelling at fundamental basketball concepts. The entire modern NBA orthodoxy has evolved around exploiting the weakside.

Yes it most certainly does matter. If you're gonna take the ball out of your franchise player's hands, there better be a good reason. Because if you start losing multiple games by 20+ points, and your main guy feels marginalized, it won't be long before there's a serious backlash.

Wall not cutting off the ball is NOT the reason why this offense doesn't work. It's not even one of the top 5 reasons. The main reason why it doesn't work, is that the supporting players simply aren't good or skilled enough. Plain and simple. And Wall sees that just as well as we do.


Edit: and keep in mind, I was just as disappointed as everyone else with Wall's effort the first few games. But this is clearly a deeper team-wide issue, if you can't see that because your whole myopic focus is on Wall not making backdoor cuts, you're gonna wake up surprised one day when Wittman/EG are swiftly canned.

The only one who's being myopic here is you. Cutting is only a fraction of being an effective off-ball player. Regardless, I never even mentioned the subject of cutting, or that Wall was the only reason the offense was failing. You just took that narrative and ran with it. Blaming the teammates for Wall's own personal struggles is borderline denialism. It's not the other 4 guys fault every time John decides to pull up for a mid-range jumper 4 seconds into the shot clock instead of getting in the lane, it's also not their fault every time he turns down an attempt at the rim to whip an errant pass across three defenders. John's usage rate is the same as it has been the past three seasons. The only thing that has changed is his TOP is down to 6.4 minutes from 8.2 (Still good for 12th in the league). Stop coming up with these wild conspiracy theories in an attempt to defend a players inability to produce.

[80sballboy]

After TOR beats our brains in tomorrow hopefully Ted realizes BOTH Randy and EG need to go. W/e scheme Randy tries to come up with cannot cover up the fact that EG has royally fisted this team into becoming a mediocre cum dumpster.

Classy as always. Too early for Witt. Too late for Grunfeld.

You think it's too early for Witt?

If/when we get blown out by Raps and Cleveland, let's see how long Randy remains the coach. Kevin McHale just got fired for less

Yeah, I do. Way too early. They've lost three in a row not 10. I don't agree with what Houston did either, but they have much more talent. He's not a great coach, but he's done a nice job in postseason and his GM/owner left him mainly with garbage. You can blame him for trying to go up tempo and go small and stretch 4 (which most people on this board said he should have done last season). Obviously, Hump stinks at the 4 and Dudley is a 6-7, smart, rotund, unathletic role player. WTF is he supposed to do? Go back to Nene who is slow and always hurt? Start Blair at the 4 and watch him foul out in 10 minutes? He needs his stars to step up and if he can't get John and Beal going in the next 10-15 games and they go 2-12 or something like that , he should be toast. But that doesn't mean that we'll start to win because Don Newman is the interim coach.

[Illmatic12]

It doesn't matter if he's passing it off to scrubs. It's a simple fact of excelling at fundamental basketball concepts. The entire modern NBA orthodoxy has evolved around exploiting the weakside.

Yes it most certainly does matter. If you're gonna take the ball out of your franchise player's hands, there better be a good reason. Because if you start losing multiple games by 20+ points, and your main guy feels marginalized, it won't be long before there's a serious backlash.

Wall not cutting off the ball is NOT the reason why this offense doesn't work. It's not even one of the top 5 reasons. The main reason why it doesn't work, is that the supporting players simply aren't good or skilled enough. Plain and simple. And Wall sees that just as well as we do.


Edit: and keep in mind, I was just as disappointed as everyone else with Wall's effort the first few games. But this is clearly a deeper team-wide issue, if you can't see that because your whole myopic focus is on Wall not making backdoor cuts, you're gonna wake up surprised one day when Wittman/EG are swiftly canned.

The only one who's being myopic here is you. Cutting is only a fraction of being an effective off-ball player. Regardless, I never even mentioned the subject of cutting, or that Wall was the only reason the offense was failing. You just took that narrative and ran with it. Blaming the teammates for Wall's own personal struggles is borderline denialism. It's not the other 4 guys fault every time John decides to pull up for a mid-range jumper 4 seconds into the shot clock instead of getting in the lane, it's also not their fault every time he turns down an attempt at the rim to whip an errant pass across three defenders. John's usage rate is the same as it has been the past three seasons. The only thing that has changed is his TOP is down to 6.4 minutes from 8.2 (Still good for 12th in the league). Stop coming up with these wild conspiracy theories in an attempt to defend a players inability to produce.

I'm not defending him, I'm simply pointing out that this is a MUCH deeper issue than just Wall's play.

Even if John picks it up, this team is still going NOWHERE with this system on the defensive end, and players like Humphries shooting jumpers. This is an issue that will result in a coaching and possibly GM change.

[Illmatic12]

Classy as always. Too early for Witt. Too late for Grunfeld.

You think it's too early for Witt?

If/when we get blown out by Raps and Cleveland, let's see how long Randy remains the coach. Kevin McHale just got fired for less

Yeah, I do. Way too early. They've lost three in a row not 10. I don't agree with what Houston did either, but they have much more talent. He's not a great coach, but he's done a nice job in postseason and his GM/owner left him mainly with garbage. You can blame him for trying to go up tempo and go small and stretch 4 (which most people on this board said he should have done last season). Obviously, Hump stinks at the 4 and Dudley is a 6-7, smart, rotund, unathletic role player. WTF is he supposed to do? Go back to Nene who is slow and always hurt? Start Blair at the 4 and watch him foul out in 10 minutes? He needs his stars to step up and if he can't get John and Beal going in the next 10-15 games and they go 2-12 or something like that , he should be toast. But that doesn't mean that we'll start to win because Don Newman is the interim coach.

All I'm saying is that there is too much tension between the players and coach, and this is a player's league. You can literally cut the tension between Wall/Beal and the coaching staff with a knife. Did you see their expressions on the bench?

I was watching the Celtics feed, their sideline reporter said she interviewed Wall in morning shootaround and he said that quote "he doesn't really understand this new offense, or what his role is supposed to be, and he just doesn't really know what's going on"

If the Wiz get blown out 3 games in a row (and they've already taken several blowouts this season), which is very possible, this whole thing is gonna come to a screeching halt. Wittman is not gonna be safe.

The team probably won't start winning a bunch after he's gone, but they will probably shift away from what we have now where Hump is given a green light to chuck threes.

[80sballboy]

You think it's too early for Witt?

If/when we get blown out by Raps and Cleveland, let's see how long Randy remains the coach. Kevin McHale just got fired for less

Yeah, I do. Way too early. They've lost three in a row not 10. I don't agree with what Houston did either, but they have much more talent. He's not a great coach, but he's done a nice job in postseason and his GM/owner left him mainly with garbage. You can blame him for trying to go up tempo and go small and stretch 4 (which most people on this board said he should have done last season). Obviously, Hump stinks at the 4 and Dudley is a 6-7, smart, rotund, unathletic role player. WTF is he supposed to do? Go back to Nene who is slow and always hurt? Start Blair at the 4 and watch him foul out in 10 minutes? He needs his stars to step up and if he can't get John and Beal going in the next 10-15 games and they go 2-12 or something like that , he should be toast. But that doesn't mean that we'll start to win because Don Newman is the interim coach.

All I'm saying is that there is too much tension between the players and coach, and this is a player's league. You can literally cut the tension between Wall/Beal and the coaching staff with a knife. Did you see their expressions on the bench?

And I was watching the Celtics feed, they mentioned something about how they interviewed Wall in pregame and he said that he was quoted as saying "he doesn't really understand this new offense, or what his role is supposed to be, and is frustrated"

If the Wiz get blown out 3 games in a row (and they've already taken several blowouts this season), which is very possible, this whole thing is gonna come to a screeching halt. Wittman is not gonna be safe.

The team probably won't start winning a bunch after he's gone, but they will probably shift away from what we have now where Hump is given a green light to chuck threes.

So you are going to fire the coach after a three-game losing streak based on facial expressions on the bench. They were either pissed at themselves, at their teammates or Witt. Good. They should be angry and not smiling after getting embarrassed. We are not Houston. Sorry. Expectations are make the playoffs and hope we catch fire. If John doesn't get hurt in the playoffs, we are playing in the EC Finals. But we lost Pierce, we lost Seraphin. We lost Butler. Not great players, but who did we replace them with? I thought Anderson, Dudley and Neal could help as shooters but we sacrificed defense for offense. (who knows about Anderson). We did not get ONE new big in the offseason. Not one!

[Illmatic12]

Yeah, I do. Way too early. They've lost three in a row not 10. I don't agree with what Houston did either, but they have much more talent. He's not a great coach, but he's done a nice job in postseason and his GM/owner left him mainly with garbage. You can blame him for trying to go up tempo and go small and stretch 4 (which most people on this board said he should have done last season). Obviously, Hump stinks at the 4 and Dudley is a 6-7, smart, rotund, unathletic role player. WTF is he supposed to do? Go back to Nene who is slow and always hurt? Start Blair at the 4 and watch him foul out in 10 minutes? He needs his stars to step up and if he can't get John and Beal going in the next 10-15 games and they go 2-12 or something like that , he should be toast. But that doesn't mean that we'll start to win because Don Newman is the interim coach.

All I'm saying is that there is too much tension between the players and coach, and this is a player's league. You can literally cut the tension between Wall/Beal and the coaching staff with a knife. Did you see their expressions on the bench?

And I was watching the Celtics feed, they mentioned something about how they interviewed Wall in pregame and he said that he was quoted as saying "he doesn't really understand this new offense, or what his role is supposed to be, and is frustrated"

If the Wiz get blown out 3 games in a row (and they've already taken several blowouts this season), which is very possible, this whole thing is gonna come to a screeching halt. Wittman is not gonna be safe.

The team probably won't start winning a bunch after he's gone, but they will probably shift away from what we have now where Hump is given a green light to chuck threes.

So you are going to fire the coach after a three-game losing streak based on facial expressions on the bench. They were either pissed at themselves, at their teammates or Witt. Good. They should be angry and not smiling after getting embarrassed. We are not Houston. Sorry. Expectations are make the playoffs and hope we catch fire. If John doesn't get hurt in the playoffs, we are playing in the EC Finals. But we lost Pierce, we lost Seraphin. We lost Butler. Not great players, but who did we replace them with? I thought Anderson, Dudley and Neal could help as shooters but we sacrificed defense for offense. (who knows about Anderson). We did not get ONE new big in the offseason. Not one!

It's not 'three game losing streak' .. it's 'three games where the team quit/stopped responding to the coach'

Unless the team comes out with a completely different attitude these next two games, that's what's going to happen.

That's exactly how Randy's buddy McHale got fired. It wasn't just that they were losing, it was HOW they were losing. It's not fair to Witt, but if the team stops responding to him (especially the star player) there's no way he will be allowed to remain the head coach.

[nate33]

I hate being a Wizards fan.

[jangles86]

I am John Walls biggest fan.

But I'm losing faith in him. I've watched him since game 1 and followed him in every game.

I just don't see the ability to control his turnovers and dominate a game offensively. He has lost speed and his all out attack on the basket.

I don't know if he needs a new scene or a new coach. But he isn't turning into the superstar this whole league knows he can be.

[TheSecretWeapon]

The Wizards aren't as bad as they've looked the past couple games. At some point this year, they'l go on a run and win a few in a row. They won't be as good as they look then. It's a pretty average team. It's been an average team. The hope is they can get someone like Durant and be much better than average.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I hate being a Wizards fan.

If it weren't for this board, I'm not sure I would be a Wiz fan. There is only so much Grunfeld one can take.

I don't have a lot of hate on my heart. But I think I just may hate Grunfeld.

[Dark Faze]

i honestly don't really care what happens this season sans Beal hopefully improving and Oubre getting run

if KD wants to bail on us because of one bad year after two fantastic post season runs then so be it--he probably was never going to come anyway

and im not about to turn on John for one bad year either just a few months after he tried to play through a friggin broken wrist and after having improved tremendously the previous two seasons

[queridiculo]

Calling the Wizards average might be a bit flattering.

They haven't been competitive in all but one of their seven losses, got a couple of fluky wins to start the season and basically have one quality win on a last second shot against an old Spurs team on the last game of a three game east coast swing.

The Humphries experiment has been a failure, Gortat is just a guy and Wall is playing some of the worst basketball of his career.

It's going to be a long season, and when it's over we'll get watch Grunfeld masterfully orchestrate his fourth rebuild in 12 seasons.

[dobrojim]

The Wizards aren't as bad as they've looked the past couple games. At some point this year, they'l go on a run and win a few in a row. They won't be as good as they look then. It's a pretty average team. It's been an average team. The hope is they can get someone like Durant and be much better than average.

This.

Didn't/Not reading the whole thread, even though it's not that many pages.

Right now, we stink. Right now John Wall is not playing like the all star he has
been for the last couple seasons. Our defense stinks at least in terms of
finishing defensive possessions by securing the ball before it goes through
the basket. One big under the basket is not enough to have a chance, or at
least a good chance, of securing missed shots when there are 3-4 offensive players
ready to grab the ball.

The east looks stronger (at least relative to itself) and more balanced than in recent years.
Every team is implementing 'modern' offensive concepts of spacing and shot selection.

The good news is that in spite of our lets say uneven play this year, we're not in a major
hole. Yet. But they better work on fixing things and not wait until March to do it.

As far as tension goes between the coaches and players, no one likes losing. Professionals
especially don't like it since it impacts their livelihood. I would hope the team including the
coaches would first try to come together in an effort to address our weaknesses before the
players write off or begin to ignore what the coaches are trying to do.

John Wall returning to AllStar form would go a long way towards improving our
chances at winning games. We know he has the capability. We know it ain't easy.
But I have at least some faith in his temperament, physical gifts and mental approach that he
will come around barring some physical malady that is at present not public knowledge.
He's too good, too driven, too smart, to continue to play at this mediocre level.

There is nothing so horribly wrong with us that having Wall (re)elevate his game wouldn't
go a long ways towards fixing. He is the straw that stirs the drink.

[AFM]

I said it before, Wall needs to STOP EJACULATING, save up that LIFE FORCE, dude looks LETHARGIC because he keeps cumming and releasing PROLACTIN into his body (seriously)
Dude should read THIS STUDY
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12659241

you can thank me later