Game 16: Golden State Warriors (16-0) @ Phoenix Suns (7-8)

[TeamTragic]

Are we seriously arguing about Tucker? Who will be next? Kieff? Save your energy just like Kieff and Tucker do during the game

[PackSuns]

Who's arguing? I posed a simple question. I want our most efficient scorer shooting the most shots. I don't care if he comes off the bench but he should be playing the majority of the mins. Not doing so would be a disservice to the team and fans.

But why are you bringing this up when Warren HAS played more minutes in the last two games and over twice as many last night?

because this is a forum where we discuss the Phoenix Suns. I was responding to a question.

[PackSuns]

Who's arguing? I posed a simple question. I want our most efficient scorer shooting the most shots. I don't care if he comes off the bench but he should be playing the majority of the mins. Not doing so would be a disservice to the team and fans.

But why are you bringing this up when Warren HAS played more minutes in the last two games and over twice as many last night?

because this is a forum where we discuss the Phoenix Suns. I was responding to a question.

And I didn't start the discussion. I won't bring it up again. Sorry

[kennydorglas]

I think we need to play Warren WITH Bledsoe all the time.
They have a great chemistry together.

I dont mind seeing him as a starter because he doesnt need pre-arranged plays.
He'll just create more passing lanes for Bled/Knight and make everything easier for them.
I'd suggest moving Kieff to the 2nd unit, tho... this is almost a impossible move right now, but would be great for our team.

[bwgood77]

But why are you bringing this up when Warren HAS played more minutes in the last two games and over twice as many last night?

because this is a forum where we discuss the Phoenix Suns. I was responding to a question.

And I didn't start the discussion. I won't bring it up again. Sorry

No, that's fine. My bad...I didn't mean to come off harshly. I genuinely was wondering why people were saying he needed more minutes when he just played 35, and I probably didn't see all the posts, but it seemed like everyone was kind of pointing out the same thing. That Warren should get more minutes regardless of whether or not he starts. Some seem to be adamant about him starting even though he is already playing more minutes though.

[bwgood77]

I think we need to play Warren WITH Bledsoe all the time.
They have a great chemistry together.

I dont mind seeing him as a starter because he doesnt need pre-arranged plays.
He'll just create more passing lanes for Bled/Knight and make everything easier for them.
I'd suggest moving Kieff to the 2nd unit, tho... this is almost a impossible move right now, but would be great for our team.

The more I think about it, I think I would move Kieff to the 2nd unit too. It actually could help his trade value because his numbers might improve. I think he might do better because he would probably be the #1 option or at worst the #2 option playing against lesser players more often.

Depending on the team we were playing, I might start Tucker at the 4 and Warren at the 3 though but unless one could stay in with the second unit we'd probably have to play Booker at the 3 which would probably force us to play Price more. It doesn't look like Goodwin or Weems deserve any minutes at this point. It would be really nice to see Bryce Cotton do something.

[thamadkant]

If Suns want Warren to develop to his full potential... He has to start. Players like Paul George, Kawhi Leonard etc are elite players because they develop their mentality as go to players... They honed their skills against other starters and became better.

Warren's defense is no way near elite... But his offense and rate of improvement has become too good to ignore. If Hornacek wants him to be more of a Ginobili type as in sixth man of the year player.... Then Tucker needs to become an elite defender like Bowen... Because lately, Tucker has slipped a lot. Last year his rebounding was critical... But with Chandler, Bledsoe and Knight being above average rebounders for their position... Tucker's rebounding has become less critical.




In the end.... Havint another scorer next to Knight, Bledsoe... Spreads the defense more as you have 3 players who can score 20 points a night if left unattended.

[bwgood77]

If Suns want Warren to develop to his full potential... He has to start. Players like Paul George, Kawhi Leonard etc are elite players because they develop their mentality as go to players... They honed their skills against other starters and became better.

Warren's defense is no way near elite... But his offense and rate of improvement has become too good to ignore. If Hornacek wants him to be more of a Ginobili type as in sixth man of the year player.... Then Tucker needs to become an elite defender like Bowen... Because lately, Tucker has slipped a lot. Last year his rebounding was critical... But with Chandler, Bledsoe and Knight being above average rebounders for their position... Tucker's rebounding has become less critical.

In the end.... Havint another scorer next to Knight, Bledsoe... Spreads the defense more as you have 3 players who can score 20 points a night if left unattended.

But if he is playing 25-35 minutes, he is playing a lot of minutes with and against other starters. Do you think our bench would do well without him and with Tucker instead?

[bigfoot]

Regardless, it is time for a change in the starting lineup ... we have gone 16 games or 20% of the season and stand at 7-9. Since Kief returned to the starting lineup we are 1-5 ... I'd vote for Kief and Tucker to the bench and Warren and Leuer to the starting unit.

[RunDogGun]

Would you play TJ or PJ more minutes?

It would depend on the situation, and who was playing well, and what was needed. Why do we have to argue about them? I'm not worried about who starts. I really like Warren coming off the bench, because on most days, he doesn't have a problem scoring coming off the bench. I really want Bledsoe and Knight taking the most shots from our starting unit, and TJ taking the most off the bench. It seems pretty simple to me.

Who's arguing? I posed a simple question. I want our most efficient scorer shooting the most shots. I don't care if he comes off the bench but he should be playing the majority of the mins. Not doing so would be a disservice to the team and fans.

Then I don't understand your question after this game. TJ got twice as many minutes. I don't think Gaspar really cares.

The argument has been posed all around this page, and it seemed as if you were weighing in with your question.

[RunDogGun]

Regardless, it is time for a change in the starting lineup ... we have gone 16 games or 20% of the season and stand at 7-9. Since Kief returned to the starting lineup we are 1-5 ... I'd vote for Kief and Tucker to the bench and Warren and Leuer to the starting unit.

I really don't see how that helps. We either want Bledsoe an Knight shooting the most in the starting unit, or we don't. I'm fine with demoting Morris for a few games, or just coming up with some strange ailment, but I like having Warren coming off the bench. He provides the spark we need. I don't see Morris providing that, and Tucker doesn't shoot that much, nor is he a consistent scorer. Moreover, more than likely we will allow the opposing team's best wing to get into a rhythm before we put Tucker on them.

I say we just sit Morris for a few games, and start Tele.

[RunDogGun]

I think we need to play Warren WITH Bledsoe all the time.
They have a great chemistry together.

I dont mind seeing him as a starter because he doesnt need pre-arranged plays.
He'll just create more passing lanes for Bled/Knight and make everything easier for them.
I'd suggest moving Kieff to the 2nd unit, tho... this is almost a impossible move right now, but would be great for our team.

The more I think about it, I think I would move Kieff to the 2nd unit too. It actually could help his trade value because his numbers might improve. I think he might do better because he would probably be the #1 option or at worst the #2 option playing against lesser players more often.

Depending on the team we were playing, I might start Tucker at the 4 and Warren at the 3 though but unless one could stay in with the second unit we'd probably have to play Booker at the 3 which would probably force us to play Price more. It doesn't look like Goodwin or Weems deserve any minutes at this point. It would be really nice to see Bryce Cotton do something.

At this point, I just don't see how Morris would do better if we bring him off the bench. He already seems like a bitch, and we are starting him.

[Qwigglez]

If Suns want Warren to develop to his full potential... He has to start. Players like Paul George, Kawhi Leonard etc are elite players because they develop their mentality as go to players... They honed their skills against other starters and became better.

Warren's defense is no way near elite... But his offense and rate of improvement has become too good to ignore. If Hornacek wants him to be more of a Ginobili type as in sixth man of the year player.... Then Tucker needs to become an elite defender like Bowen... Because lately, Tucker has slipped a lot. Last year his rebounding was critical... But with Chandler, Bledsoe and Knight being above average rebounders for their position... Tucker's rebounding has become less critical.

In the end.... Havint another scorer next to Knight, Bledsoe... Spreads the defense more as you have 3 players who can score 20 points a night if left unattended.

But if he is playing 25-35 minutes, he is playing a lot of minutes with and against other starters. Do you think our bench would do well without him and with Tucker instead?

I feel like we start the game playing 4 on 5 because Tucker puts us at such a disadvantage. No one respects his 3, even his corner 3 and it makes sense too. It's like we start off the game trying to play catch up. If I was a coach playing the Suns and lost because Tucker scored 20, I could live with that because he is only get make shots consistently every blue moon. It doesn't make sense for Tucker to be in the starting lineup because his defense doesn't make up for his lack of offense this year. Last year sure he played well defensively, but this year he gained at least 15 pounds and its showing. Warren is quietly becoming a leader on this team and he needs to be rewarded for his efforts.
I say we run smaller in our second units and have Booker play the 3, and Archie play the 2, while Price runs the show. Archie has shown he deserves some rotational minutes because he is also a scorer.
Tucker basically shouldn't be playing at all anymore. His last 5 games, he's averaging 27 minutes with 5 points and 4 boards. The only reason he should be playing that many minutes is to up his zero trade value.

[RunDogGun]

The last nationally televised game we had, Reggie was talking about how good a defender Tucker is, and that the Suns now start three very strong defenders in Bledsoe, Tucker, and Chandler. Tucker does all the 50/50 stuff that doesn't show up in the stat line. He doesn't take many shots, and he isn't a ball stopper. Late in games, he often is the one who extends plays, gets those extra rebounds which keeps us in the games.

He hasn't shot well this season, but that could come around easily. If we move him to the bench, I don't see it helping us at all. He isn't going to be that offensive spark we need, and it won't help much to after the fact, put him on the best wing player, who by then is already in a rhythm.

[bwgood77]

I think we need to play Warren WITH Bledsoe all the time.
They have a great chemistry together.

I dont mind seeing him as a starter because he doesnt need pre-arranged plays.
He'll just create more passing lanes for Bled/Knight and make everything easier for them.
I'd suggest moving Kieff to the 2nd unit, tho... this is almost a impossible move right now, but would be great for our team.

The more I think about it, I think I would move Kieff to the 2nd unit too. It actually could help his trade value because his numbers might improve. I think he might do better because he would probably be the #1 option or at worst the #2 option playing against lesser players more often.

Depending on the team we were playing, I might start Tucker at the 4 and Warren at the 3 though but unless one could stay in with the second unit we'd probably have to play Booker at the 3 which would probably force us to play Price more. It doesn't look like Goodwin or Weems deserve any minutes at this point. It would be really nice to see Bryce Cotton do something.

At this point, I just don't see how Morris would do better if we bring him off the bench. He already seems like a bitch, and we are starting him.

Well he's already pissed off, and hopefully soon to get over it, but if benching didn't motivate him to play better then we just don't play him much. He has gotten better recently so hopefully that continues. Hopefully he gets on fire on this east coast trip so some teams will think "maybe we should trade for this guy."

[Mr Puddles]

54% FG 45% 3pt 80% ft. Avg 22 mins a game

Those are top level shooting numbers. Warren is not a volume three point shooter but that is ok with me.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

As long as he can hit his open shots, which is what he's been doing so far this season. If he keeps shooting like this, defenses can't start sag down and dare him to shoot which will open up his game.

Amazing improvement from TJ so far, more than doubled his scoring out put (6.1 to 12.5), almost doubled his 3pg % on 3 times as many attempts (.238% to 45%) . Numbers up across the board.

I assume that his minutes will continue to increase and that TJ will end up averaging 15+ ppg on good shooting percentages. Should be a serious candidate for MIP this year.

[PackSuns]

It would depend on the situation, and who was playing well, and what was needed. Why do we have to argue about them? I'm not worried about who starts. I really like Warren coming off the bench, because on most days, he doesn't have a problem scoring coming off the bench. I really want Bledsoe and Knight taking the most shots from our starting unit, and TJ taking the most off the bench. It seems pretty simple to me.

Who's arguing? I posed a simple question. I want our most efficient scorer shooting the most shots. I don't care if he comes off the bench but he should be playing the majority of the mins. Not doing so would be a disservice to the team and fans.

Then I don't understand your question after this game. TJ got twice as many minutes. I don't think Gaspar really cares.

The argument has been posed all around this page, and it seemed as if you were weighing in with your question.

You win.

[RunDogGun]

Who's arguing? I posed a simple question. I want our most efficient scorer shooting the most shots. I don't care if he comes off the bench but he should be playing the majority of the mins. Not doing so would be a disservice to the team and fans.

Then I don't understand your question after this game. TJ got twice as many minutes. I don't think Gaspar really cares.

The argument has been posed all around this page, and it seemed as if you were weighing in with your question.

You win.

Ha, wasn't trying to win or lose, like you said, I really don't care about who starts. At this point, Warren is doing well coming off the bench, and his scoring from there is much needed. He is getting good minutes and being productive. What's not to like with how he is developing?