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Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#841 » by TTNN » Thu Dec 3, 2015 8:03 am

leeramundo wrote:
TTNN wrote:
Sachmo wrote:or his ankle was bad that it required limited minutes. especially in a game we weren't winning.


I don't see that as a concern for his injured ankle. He played for 5 min, sits for 18 min + half time, and then he was sent back in. If it was injured ankle, you play and don't stop. It got worse when you sit and it got swollen up. If coach really care about his ankle and have to play Lin, he should play him straight for the first half, then let him ice up for the day. Not to sit him that long and send him back in.

The only reason I would say is that coach want to play Roberts, he'd rather trust Roberts play at 2 than Lin. I just don't get it.


Roberts have gotten like 15 minutes total (hyperbole) this season, take it easy.



Don't get your logic here though. That's a really weird excuse.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#842 » by TTNN » Thu Dec 3, 2015 8:22 am

Kswiss wrote:
TTNN wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:^not sure what you are talking about, those were exact lin's words, i said nobody knows how true those were, i think we lin fans put too much wishful thinking there...
He has changed his shooting form gradually year by year, this is nothing new... I do think he has a better shooting form now... but his shooting ability is only marginally improved.... all in all, we all try to find all kinds of excuses for him... but the reality is he is a not a young and coming player with a great potential anymore, if he can not consistently perform, he will be either a journey man or a washout in the league.... it will be truly sad since I expected him to be solid starter, someday maybe an all star...maybe he just does not have it after all


His 3pt shot has been improving from 32% Linsanity days to 36.9% last season, that's not marginally improved. And yet he could not gain any trust from his coaches.

I hate to put this comparison, but there are players who did not make that kind of improvement, yet nobody lost trust in them.

Just like today, Lin played total 13 min, with 22 touches, and he shot twice, made a 3, and got 4 FT chances, made 3 assist, 1 steal and 1 block. (he had 1 TO too.), not sure you could get much more out of 22 touches than this production. Yet when he played only 5 min and got subbed by Roberts, I can't see any player could have a good performance out of limitation like this. BTW, defensively, Lin only let one shot made on him today.

I really don't get what Lin did or did not do to lost coach Clifford's trust this quick.

I've been watching Jlin for several years, and as a huge Lin fan I will say he is still definitely adjusting to the new system and trying to find his role. If you remember last season with a new team, he did the same thing and then came on incredibly strong in the second half of the season and became by far the best player on the Lakers. This season so far he hasn't been our best player overall. Yes his defense has been phenomenal and a major upgrade over Kemba but Kemba has been decent to solid offensively for the most part, and Lin has had some really bad games offensively. I don't think there is any agenda against him, he just isn't lighting the world on fire yet and until he does, he won't earn consistent minutes and will just be a 15-20 minute backup PG


To be honest, I have tried, and I could not see what is Lin's role on this team. It has been shifting left and right, and I don't think he could ever finish adjusting.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#843 » by TinmanZBoy » Thu Dec 3, 2015 8:25 am

TTNN wrote:
Sachmo wrote:or his ankle was bad that it required limited minutes. especially in a game we weren't winning.


I don't see that as a concern for his injured ankle. He played for 5 min, sits for 18 min + half time, and then he was sent back in. If it was injured ankle, you play and don't stop. It got worse when you sit and it got swollen up. If coach really care about his ankle and have to play Lin, he should play him straight for the first half, then let him ice up for the day. Not to sit him that long and send him back in.

The only reason I would say is that coach want to play Roberts, he'd rather trust Roberts play at 2 than Lin. I just don't get it.


he got two quick fouls in the first half, one was to prevent a breakaway, one was offensive foul, you know coach clifford "the two fouls in first half rule", coach did not immediately sit him though, gave him another 2 or 3 minutes, then subbed Roberts in....
the second half, he came in with his normal pattern, but the game quickly went away, coach gave Harrison a little burn, Jeremy is one of his main guys,also the injury.... he subbed him out at 7 minutes mark on 4th...
overall, nothing changed...
I actually thought coach should give curry different looks by using kemba, lin alternately on defending him, lin probably would have defended better, he had way more experience defending Curry than Kemba, even had some success before. And Kemba and Lin should have attacked Curry non-stop, should always put curry in defending PnR situation.... Curry had an easy night in defensive end, it is not the way to play them......tbh, a little disappointed with coach's plan tonight
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#844 » by lin is ok » Thu Dec 3, 2015 8:32 am

got to give it to hornets FO . u guys owned LIN. Good GAME
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#845 » by TinmanZBoy » Thu Dec 3, 2015 8:35 am

lin is ok wrote:got to give it to hornets FO . u guys owned LIN. Good GAME

huh? man, i am speechless now...
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#846 » by TinmanZBoy » Thu Dec 3, 2015 8:52 am

i understand everybody's frustration, but honestly, nobody can change the situation except lin himself, just play better, communicate better with coach
I do think Lin is very important for this team's playoff chance this season, hopefully coach can find ways to get him going
One very positive thing is Lin is rock solid on defense, very impressive
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#847 » by rayfantastic » Thu Dec 3, 2015 11:02 am

Just play better? He has steadily improves every aspect of his game for every single season he's been in the league yet his situation gets worse every year. It's also a vicious cycle. He keeps getting labeled as a more inferior player despite having improved. Put yourself in that situation and imagine how frustrating it is. I'm actually very impressed by that fact he is still able to be all pretty positive about everything and have not been completely beaten down yet. I guess making millions of dollars a year helps, as long as you don't look at how much more your colleagues make.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#848 » by EwingSweatsALot » Thu Dec 3, 2015 1:34 pm

He's hurt. Ankle and back. We were getting steamrolled. There was no need to push him. Stop giving a **** about his minutes in a December game that we didn't even keep competitive in the first quarter.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#849 » by Braggins » Thu Dec 3, 2015 1:58 pm

Lin would have gotten 30 minutes this game if he wasnt hurt and we werent getting destroyed. Chill the **** out... Some of you guys are the worst basketball fans ive ever seen.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#850 » by Liver_Pooty » Thu Dec 3, 2015 2:10 pm

Lin could get his legs chopped off in a car wreck and you guys would wonder why he isn't getting 35 minutes a game.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#851 » by platinumnyc » Thu Dec 3, 2015 2:48 pm

He'll be fine. Curry went off last 2 min of 3rd and put the game to rest, so whether Lin's injury was minor or not, or whether he could've 'played thru it' or not didn't matter anymore, better off resting that ankle.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#852 » by bws94 » Thu Dec 3, 2015 3:02 pm

What is so difficult about Lin's role on Charlotte? It's very consistent. Lin leads the 2nd unit and then if he's not in foul trouble and is productive he stays in and plays with Kemba. He often finishes games due to his defense, experience, ability to draw fouls or execute plays, etc. If scoring is needed then Lamb is preferred. This translates to 18-28 minutes a game depending on what the matchups and games call for. That's consistent usage. Also consistent is he's allowed 2 fouls in the first half.

I think Lin could come in earlier in games but Cliff's rotations are pretty set. So at least he knows he's coming in somewhere around the 2 minute mark in the 1st/3rd and plays with Kemba a few minutes. Clifford looks like he's trying to build the Kemba/Lin back court and will use it when deciding to go small for sure. If not going so small, Kemba will be in, and Lin may be subbed for Lamb.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#853 » by ChokeFasncists » Thu Dec 3, 2015 4:29 pm

TinmanZBoy wrote:^not sure what you are talking about, those were exact lin's words, i said nobody knows how true those were, i think we lin fans put too much wishful thinking there...

You're saying you're pretty sure the Mavs actually had no interest in Lin.
He has changed his shooting form gradually year by year, this is nothing new... I do think he has a better shooting form now... but his shooting ability is only marginally improved.... all in all, we all try to find all kinds of excuses for him...

That's not true. Over the summer, he drastically changed his shooting form. It used to be jumping hard and release at the top. He said it tires him out, affecting his ability to play well on B2B and play inconsistently. So now it's releasing on the way up. It's gonna take some time. He did well in preseason but regular season is different.
but the reality is he is a not a young and coming player with a great potential anymore, if he can not consistently perform, he will be either a journey man or a washout in the league.... it will be truly sad since I expected him to be solid starter, someday maybe an all star...maybe he just does not have it after all

Not too high, not too low. Even after these few bad games, he's still averaging almost 17/5 per 36, that's not a sign of a washout. He is a little banged up and he's new to the team etc, he's bound to get better.

It is true that he's at a different stage now in his development. He is not that promising young player anymore. He needs to grind it out, working from the bottom; improves a bit each game.

OTOH, the way I see it, Linsanity was his Final 4 glory; 1st year in Houston was his rookie season with relative freedom to try things out and fail, then the next two seasons were kinda whatever. Now it's his sophomore year, he plays under a helpful and disciplinarian coach along with a previous mentor, trying to fix his problems. It's gonna be a process, it's a long season, when/if he fixes his problems, he emerges a mature, real starting caliber player. Coming into this season, he had three main problems: consistency, TOs and fighting thru screens. The last one I think is done, he's great on D now. TOs were better until recently. I suspect that Cliff benches him to fix his TOs problem. He doesn't get his ball stolen much nowadays when dribbling, he doesn't get his passes intercepted much, he rarely jumps up with no plan; most of his TOs come when he is going towards the rim too aggressively; it isn't that bad of a thing. Consistency has gotten a little better, but he is still adjusting to his shooting form change.

He's gotta find his comfort zone, make shots consistently and not turn the ball over. When that happens, not impossible, he'll be good.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#854 » by 13th Man » Thu Dec 3, 2015 5:48 pm

bws94 wrote:
What is so difficult about Lin's role on Charlotte? It's very consistent.


I know we've agreed on a lot of things over the years across various boards but this is one area where I totally disagree with you on.

The problem is that Lin is being used as a stop-gap for Kemba and now Lamb, he's not really getting to play his game as he envisioned.

Lin leads the 2nd unit and then if he's not in foul trouble and is productive he stays in and plays with Kemba.


Does he really lead the 2nd unit? How much time does he get to actually play pg these days, that is when he's on the court without Kemba? I'd say from the start of the 2nd Q to the 7 minute mark which is 5 minutes per half. A 5 minute stretch isn't exactly leading, more like covering imo.

I know you like him playing alongside Kemba but I mainly see him parked in the corner to be the wingman or bailout guy if Kemba cannot create a play with the others.

He often finishes games due to his defense, experience, ability to draw fouls or execute plays, etc. If scoring is needed then Lamb is preferred.


The trend that we are seeing is that they're trying to work Lamb into a true 6th man role, unless he cools off his good play. I'm not saying that this is not justified but it is what it is, Lin's current role on this team is not as significant as you seem to think it is due to the team dynamics.

Kemba will always get over 30+ mins even if he stinks up the court (which I don't agree with), Lamb is gaining more minutes and coming into games earlier, while Lin enters later.

This translates to 18-28 minutes a game depending on what the matchups and games call for. That's consistent usage. Also consistent is he's allowed 2 fouls in the first half.


A 10 minute range between games is not considered consistent imo. His average minutes per game this year is 22.5. There were a half dozen games where it was close to 30; the first few games of the season and the Hairston injury games. Otherwise it'd be closer to 20. His average here is less than in any previous years, the numbers don't lie.

I think Lin could come in earlier in games but Cliff's rotations are pretty set. So at least he knows he's coming in somewhere around the 2 minute mark in the 1st/3rd and plays with Kemba a few minutes.


Lin coming in at a set time doesn't mean it's the most efficient for the team. If he could come in earlier, why doesn't he? Why does he have to the last sub? That's because Clifford is set in giving a select few guys on this team star minutes (Batum, Marvin, Kemba, now Lamb).

If Lin comes earlier, he could then potentially lead the 2nd unit while Kemba gets a nice rest and doesn't have to play 35 mins/game. This is not happening because Clifford is set in his ways with Kemba and Lin is being used as a utility player.

Also, because of his combo guard versatility, whenever he's on the court with another pg; either Kemba or Roberts, Lin becomes a SG which is not exactly his preferred position to be playing his style of game.

Clifford looks like he's trying to build the Kemba/Lin back court and will use it when deciding to go small for sure. If not going so small, Kemba will be in, and Lin may be subbed for Lamb.


Whatever the case is, I don't agree with the minutes distribution and substitution patterns, as it's not the most efficient usage for the team. This team has good depth and balance but the distribution of minutes does not reflect it. When I gripe about this, it's not just about Lin but also for the betterment of the team.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#855 » by bws94 » Thu Dec 3, 2015 6:11 pm

I don't know, to me Lamb still plays best with LIn. He can play OK with the Kemba group, but in the 2nd unit with Lin, without Kemba, he does a lot of damage playing off of Lin. No other player is throwing him the lobs but Lin and they've done that a few times.

I think Kemba/Lin is something Cliff talked about before the season began and he's trying to make it happen. That's why Kemba and LIn are playing so much together plus Kemba has been playing lights out up to the last game. Lin or Lamb's usage has less to do with 6th man, in my opinion, than it does style of player. Lamb is the shooting/scorer length for rebounder, LIn is the playmaking, hustle, D guy that sometimes scores and can get rebounds. So there is a little overlap in some areas but big distinctions in others between them.

Maybe I'm wrong here and 13th man is right. I don't know. But I do agree Lin seems to come in quite late in quarters and that maybe he'd help the team coming in earlier. And I'd like to see at least 25 minutes for him a night, but understand that it may not happen some nights.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#856 » by gafun » Thu Dec 3, 2015 6:35 pm

It does not matter how many mins Lin got. He played good defense if not overhelped sometimes (that was not his fault. few played good D last night). But if you made him #5 option to score or never pass ball to him when he was wide open in the corner, why not just rest him for the entire game?
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#857 » by Flip Murray » Thu Dec 3, 2015 6:39 pm

some people love to talk out of both sides of their mouth on this. If you want Lin to get treated like he deserves then you're in the right place with the right coach to do that. He's a professional basketball player that's got to earn his minutes just like anybody else. He doesn't need to be coddled by coaches or have the franchise bend over backwards to appease only him.

My guess is Lin would say a lot of people are overreacting, and would admit that he hasn't played up to his potential this year so far. He knows that the minutes are going to be based off his performance but also what is best for the team. This isn't about building the best lineup around Jeremy Lin, its about building the best rotation with the players we have.

The Hornets didn't **** over jeremy Lin. He's not an idiot. He knew exactly what he was signing up for and say what you want about Steve Clifford but he is as up front, honest, and as professional as it gets. He calls it like he sees it and wouldn't BS a player. I think Lin came to Charlotte for an opportunity to be part of a team. After all the hype of Linsanity and all the hater backlash he just wanted to come to a franchise where he could be a good, normal NBA player without as much of the ridiculous scrutiny.

Lin can thrive in Charlotte, but you have a correct and realistic definition of what thriving is for him. He needs a stable situation where he's judged by his qualities as a basketball player only. You can't define stable after 20 games.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#858 » by bws94 » Thu Dec 3, 2015 6:45 pm

flip, i agree with you.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#859 » by TTNN » Thu Dec 3, 2015 6:49 pm

bws94 wrote:
I think Kemba/Lin is something Cliff talked about before the season began and he's trying to make it happen. That's why Kemba and LIn are playing so much together plus Kemba has been playing lights out up to the last game. Lin or Lamb's usage has less to do with 6th man, in my opinion, than it does style of player. Lamb is the shooting/scorer length for rebounder, LIn is the playmaking, hustle, D guy that sometimes scores and can get rebounds. So there is a little overlap in some areas but big distinctions in others between them.


Agree with Kemba/Lin is something Cliff talked about, I don't think he is trying to make it happen, at least that is not the priority now. Obviously he tried, but I do think those two could play better together than they are now, but I don't see Clifford is trying to make that happen. It kind of stay as when Kemba play with that second team, he took it over. And Lin/Lamb ran the team when Kemba or Batum were not there.

I did see Batum and Lin trying to work it out, and it worked out in couple of the games, but not with Kemba/Lin. I think that's more with Kemba's style of play and how Kemba envision the the play style when Kemba/Lin play together.
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Re: The Jeremy Lin Thread 2 

Post#860 » by gafun » Thu Dec 3, 2015 6:49 pm

Some people criticize Lin fans they do not have patient on Cliff. Really? We have seen how Lin's three former coaches Woodson, McHale, Scott had mistreated Lin and how they had ALL failed their teams as head coach after Lin left. They have approved themselves were wrong (or bad) coaches for the teams too! Lin fans are entitled to our own opinions about Cliff's decisions after 15 games.

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