Game 19: Phoenix Suns (8-10) @ Detroit Pistons (9-9)

[RaisingArizona]

How we didn't ride the hot hands to finish the game is beyond stupid.

Welcome to the "Fire Jeff Club". Glad to have you.

[RaisingArizona]

Marcus goes for 24 with 14 rebounds( guess who guarded him) and has a +16. Meanwhile Tucker goes for 3 and 6 with a -13 and 4 TO.

[RunDogGun]

How we didn't ride the hot hands to finish the game is beyond stupid.

Welcome to the "Fire Jeff Club". Glad to have you.

You don't have to fire him, just take him out back and give him a huge slap in the face. He isn't a bad coach, just questionable on his rotations as of late.

[RunDogGun]

Marcus goes for 24 with 14 rebounds( guess who guarded him) and has a +16. Meanwhile Tucker goes for 3 and 6 with a -13 and 4 TO.

Every possession? Zero switches, and zero screens? Come on guys, most of us play basketball, this loss isn't on Tucker. Our starting guards took too many shots, and we didn't get the ball into the hands of who was shooting the best down the stretch of the game. Plus Jeff waited too long to bring back both Booker and Tele, who were shooting great from deep. We could have iced the game.

Hopefully we learn from this loss. If not, it will be a long frustrating season.

I still think it sucks that we ended regulation with only 13 fts.

[RaisingArizona]

Marcus goes for 24 with 14 rebounds( guess who guarded him) and has a +16. Meanwhile Tucker goes for 3 and 6 with a -13 and 4 TO.

Every possession? Zero switches, and zero screens? Come on guys, most of us play basketball, this loss isn't on Tucker. Our starting guards took too many shots, and we didn't get the ball into the hands of who was shooting the best down the stretch of the game. Plus Jeff waited too long to bring back both Booker and Tele, who were shooting great from deep. We could have iced the game.

Hopefully we learn from this loss. If not, it will be a long frustrating season.

I still think it sucks that we ended regulation with only 13 fts.

The majority of the time, I would say yes, they guarded each other. I know you like Tucker but those stats should tell you something. Tucker was a bonehead down the stretch. I may look for video evidence to show his illegal screen, fouling when over the limit, missing a free throw all down the stretch.

[batsmasher]

Yo that foul over the limit was intentional and on Drummond. It was a really good basketball play because it was under 2 minutes.

Tuck's biggest problem is he'll never be a box score guy so he will always have a target on his back as long as this team isn't winning.

[bwgood77]

Marcus goes for 24 with 14 rebounds( guess who guarded him) and has a +16. Meanwhile Tucker goes for 3 and 6 with a -13 and 4 TO.

Our entire starting unit went for minuses...Bled and Knight were in the -20s. The bench outscored their bench (Steve Blake, Anthony Tolliver, Stanimal, etc who all had big minuses).

Even if he though our bench couldn't keep the hot hand when Detroit's starters went back in, it's not like the starters were doing anything against them anyway. They certainly couldn't stop them.

I don't mind so much that he countered with them, but when the lead got cut from like 16-10, you call time out and start subbing those guys in after they got a short rest...not run with those starters who blew it the rest of the way and through OT.

[bwgood77]

Marcus goes for 24 with 14 rebounds( guess who guarded him) and has a +16. Meanwhile Tucker goes for 3 and 6 with a -13 and 4 TO.

Every possession? Zero switches, and zero screens? Come on guys, most of us play basketball, this loss isn't on Tucker. Our starting guards took too many shots, and we didn't get the ball into the hands of who was shooting the best down the stretch of the game. Plus Jeff waited too long to bring back both Booker and Tele, who were shooting great from deep. We could have iced the game.

Hopefully we learn from this loss. If not, it will be a long frustrating season.

I still think it sucks that we ended regulation with only 13 fts.

The majority of the time, I would say yes, they guarded each other. I know you like Tucker but those stats should tell you something. Tucker was a bonehead down the stretch. I may look for video evidence to show his illegal screen, fouling when over the limit, missing a free throw all down the stretch.

Tucker can be a bonehead, but he also hustles and does what he is supposed to do. It's not like he shooting 1-11. He's shooting 1-3. He's getting 5 assists. He's boxing out Drummond. He fouling Drummond to put him on the line in a crucial moment (of course he knocked them down).

But Bledsoe can be a bonehead too, but can also play well. Knight played really well at times but probably made the BIGGEST bonehead play.

Hornacek deserves heaps of blame. But there were a bunch of boneheaded plays from our starters and they were CRUSHED by their starters. CRUSHED. Reggie Jackson had career highs against Bledsoe. People talking about Marcus on Tucker. What about Reggie's 34 and 16 on Bledsoe? Our entire starting unit crapped their pants last night. Some of it may be Horny's fault that they crapped their pants, but players gotta play and play smart.

It was awesome our bench had a great game. Hopefully these guys are our starters at some point, or at least 3rd and 4th in minutes (Warren/Booker).

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I thought Jeff's substitution decisions last night were entirely consistent with his MO over the last two seasons. He has his guys; he's made the decision ahead of time. It's exceedingly difficult for a player's performance during the game to impact Hornacek's thought process.

It's maddening primarily because his guys aren't necessarily the best players.

[bwgood77]

Let's imagine we get a quality PF or another kind of center. What can we expect from them?
Markieff touches the ball when he is open, around the 3 pt line and then has to decide whether to shoot or penetrate, penetrating being a high energy consuming task.
Len touches the ball 4/5 times during the game.

The problem here is crearly the system.
It is not posible to win important games on a regular basis by being in the hands of two small players. When they hit from everywhere, we have a good chance. When not, we are just a bunch of friends trying confront professional teams.
Groups have to be balanced and we are not.
We have very good reserves in Teletovic and Leuer. Both can play 24 minutes and Leuer can get minutes as a C or, at least, can defend many centers.
Wareen is a player than combines really well with them, as he scores near the rim while he has space, as our FC is outside the line.
We would need a better reserve point guard, or one of the two starting guards to play more minutes with the reserves with a different mindset and share the ball.

I don't totally disagree about the two small guard thing. I think if they were good passers, or at least willing passers, smart passers, who didn't turn it over, and kept the ball moving, it would surely work better.

But here's the thing. McD trades a likely high pick to pay another small PG or combo guard $14 million. He signed him to start. The coach's hands are tied to some extent. He obviously wants them to move the ball more...he said as much last night. Of course if he felt that way he should have yanked them and told them if you want to play, move the damn ball like our 1-2 year guys already know how to do.

[bwgood77]

I thought Jeff's substitution decisions last night were entirely consistent with his MO over the last two seasons. He has his guys; he's made the decision ahead of time. It's exceedingly difficult for a player's performance during the game to impact Hornacek's thought process.

It's maddening primarily because his guys aren't necessarily the best players.

He hasn't really had a chance to have his guys. He's only had like 4 or 5 who have been here for the entire two years and a month he has been here....and two of them were injured half a year. I guess that kind of makes it understandable why he feels he can trust PJ. He knows what he can do.

[PackSuns]

Let's imagine we get a quality PF or another kind of center. What can we expect from them?
Markieff touches the ball when he is open, around the 3 pt line and then has to decide whether to shoot or penetrate, penetrating being a high energy consuming task.
Len touches the ball 4/5 times during the game.

The problem here is crearly the system.
It is not posible to win important games on a regular basis by being in the hands of two small players. When they hit from everywhere, we have a good chance. When not, we are just a bunch of friends trying confront professional teams.
Groups have to be balanced and we are not.
We have very good reserves in Teletovic and Leuer. Both can play 24 minutes and Leuer can get minutes as a C or, at least, can defend many centers.
Wareen is a player than combines really well with them, as he scores near the rim while he has space, as our FC is outside the line.
We would need a better reserve point guard, or one of the two starting guards to play more minutes with the reserves with a different mindset and share the ball.

I don't totally disagree about the two small guard thing. I think if they were good passers, or at least willing passers, smart passers, who didn't turn it over, and kept the ball moving, it would surely work better.

But here's the thing. McD trades a likely high pick to pay another small PG or combo guard $14 million. He signed him to start. The coach's hands are tied to some extent. He obviously wants them to move the ball more...he said as much last night. Of course if he felt that way he should have yanked them and told them if you want to play, move the damn ball like our 1-2 year guys already know how to do.

This is exactly correct. Only one basketball on the court.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I thought Jeff's substitution decisions last night were entirely consistent with his MO over the last two seasons. He has his guys; he's made the decision ahead of time. It's exceedingly difficult for a player's performance during the game to impact Hornacek's thought process.

It's maddening primarily because his guys aren't necessarily the best players.

He hasn't really had a chance to have his guys. He's only had like 4 or 5 who have been here for the entire two years and a month he has been here....and two of them were injured half a year. I guess that kind of makes it understandable why he feels he can trust PJ. He knows what he can do.

This is a weird take. If you're right, Hornacek is simply too conservative a coach.

[RaisingArizona]

His foul on Drummond wasn't the one I was referring to. I will get back to you with video evidence time permitting.

[bwgood77]

I thought Jeff's substitution decisions last night were entirely consistent with his MO over the last two seasons. He has his guys; he's made the decision ahead of time. It's exceedingly difficult for a player's performance during the game to impact Hornacek's thought process.

It's maddening primarily because his guys aren't necessarily the best players.

He hasn't really had a chance to have his guys. He's only had like 4 or 5 who have been here for the entire two years and a month he has been here....and two of them were injured half a year. I guess that kind of makes it understandable why he feels he can trust PJ. He knows what he can do.

This is a weird take. If you're right, Hornacek is simply too conservative a coach.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. He has played TJ and Booker quite a bit as of late. TJ has played more minutes than PG in a few games before the last ones. I think they MAIN reason PJ played so much in the last two is because he is our best box out guy after Tyson and is a good rebounder...probably the best one other than Tyson...and he plays with physicality. I think when Chandler gets back, TJ goes back to likely getting more minutes than him.

[RaisingArizona]

And the Ma Mo. and Tucker comparisons are fair considering we had both last year. As we saw last night, Marcus is the better player. Both have unwanted baggage.

[RaisingArizona]

[bwgood77]

And the Ma Mo. and Tucker comparisons are fair considering we had both last year. As we saw last night, Marcus is the better player. Both have unwanted baggage.

It depends on what you need them for. Defense? PJ may not score but he never goes 3-13 either which hurts a team on offense a lot more than going 1-3.

[LukasBMW]

You seriously just made my day.

That. Is. Awesome.

He's so bitter. I love it. Now his bro just needs to go.

[TeamTragic]

Marcus goes for 24 with 14 rebounds( guess who guarded him) and has a +16. Meanwhile Tucker goes for 3 and 6 with a -13 and 4 TO.

Don't forget Tucker just letting Jackson blow by multiple times. Marcus with another huge game against Phoenix