Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

[Liver_Pooty]

There is something seriously wrong with some of you.

[Braggins]

Isn't Lin rolling in endorsement money and a Harvard graduate?

I'm guessing his decision to sign here was very calculated and he probably just decided that the opportunity to play for a team and coach that he believed in and will value him was worth more than the extra money he could have gotten, and the chance to potentially increase his earnings either this off-season or next gives him some financial upside as well.

If he puts up 13/4/3/1 in 25 minutes at his career efficiency and plays good defense for a playoff team he is going to get paid pretty well under the new CBA. I expect his play to normalize as the season continues and he gets more comfortable and hopefully healthy.

I argue with you guys a lot about who is currently playing better between he and Kemba and which should start, but I honestly don't think Kemba is that much better, if at all. I've been saying they are roughly equal as players since the beginning of the season, but I personally think Kemba might have a higher ceiling. Lin just isn't currently playing up to his potential for whatever reason. Its too early to be concerned though.

[HornetJail]

There is something seriously wrong with some of you.

I thought I had an unhealthy obsession with a group of 15 basketball players. Some of this thread is just madness.

[ohhi]

Batum will be a free agent.
Marvin will be a free agent.
Al will be a free agent.
Roberts will be a free agent.
Hairston will be a free agent.

Lin has a "longer" contract than any of these players being a players option with the 2nd year.

You meant that Lin might not be in the long term plans for the Hornets and I think that is the stupidest notion out there considering we still haven't decided whether Kemba is the long term plan despite 3 more years. Last year we were lucky Mo Williams was on the team and what was our record?

Batum is far and away the best player on this team and has all-star level talent. His addition this season has turned an unwatchable team into a fringe playoff team that is a lot of fun, almost single handedly. He's never going to have trouble finding minutes and the Hornets need to keep him as happy as humanly possible so they don't end up losing a future asset (Vonleh) for a one year rental. Marvin is unquestionably the best player at his postion and the hornets have proven to not to care at all about keeping Al, Roberts, and Hairston happy with respect to consistent minutes.

[ohhi]

There is something seriously wrong with some of you.

I thought I had an unhealthy obsession with a group of 15 basketball players. Some of this thread is just madness.

Like it or not the Linsanity stretch in New York was a phenomenon that was bigger than anything that has ever happened in Hornets history. That month of basketball was must see TV even for non NBA fans, those Knicks games probably had more viewers than any full season of Hornets basketball ever. People always love an underdog story and are curious to see how this one ends... Just be happy you have a containment thread!

[tonman]

Batum will be a free agent.
Marvin will be a free agent.
Al will be a free agent.
Roberts will be a free agent.
Hairston will be a free agent.

Lin has a "longer" contract than any of these players being a players option with the 2nd year.

You meant that Lin might not be in the long term plans for the Hornets and I think that is the stupidest notion out there considering we still haven't decided whether Kemba is the long term plan despite 3 more years. Last year we were lucky Mo Williams was on the team and what was our record?

Batum is far and away the best player on this team and has all-star level talent. His addition this season has turned an unwatchable team into a fringe playoff team that is a lot of fun, almost single handedly. He's never going to have trouble finding minutes and the Hornets need to keep him as happy as humanly possible so they don't end up losing a future asset (Vonleh) for a one year rental. Marvin is unquestionably the best player at his postion and the hornets have proven to not to care at all about keeping Al, Roberts, and Hairston happy with respect to consistent minutes.

Batum never averaged more than 14.3 ppg in his career. He was the 3rd/4th best player on the Trailblazers. Not saying a lot for the Hornets. The reason he is playing "well" is that he's shooting 12.8 FGA per game, most in his career.

Marvin is playing "well" because he's taking 4.2 threes per game (most in his career) and hitting them and playing well on the boards and blocking shots. His 10.1 ppg is 6th in his career so far so he's done more scoring in his career.

Point is, it's not necessarily how many minutes you play, it's how you are utilized. If Lin plays 20 minutes per game, he could essentially still score 15 ppg if allowed to play his game and be a primary scorer. So as the season progresses, it looks like he's not playing his game (the question is why) and he's not one of the primary scorers when he's on the court.

People claim that Lin can't reach his Linsanity days. Well duh, if you don't play Lin in the same manner i.e. primary ball handler and play maker where he can be the scorer also, then how does anyone expect him to do so? Houston he was quickly relegated to 3rd-4th option. LA, we now know that he wasn't the reason why the Lakers were a mess. So the question is if you are not going to play at the so called small ball level which drew Lin to the Hornets, then what is his role and usage?

[ChokeFasncists]

Kemba Walker's Effect on Jeremy Lin -
Lin with Walker: 3-for-9 (33.3%) on FG from 3-to-16 feet
Lin without Walker: 13-for-20 (65.0%) on FG from 3-to-16 feet

http://hoopshabit.com/2015/12/04/charlotte-hornets-kemba-walkers-effect-on-jeremy-lin/

Kemba is comfortable playing with AL. When Kemba shares the court with Lin, Lin seems much less effective. I think Clifford should keep BF1 intact, or let Lin play PG when he plays with Kemba. It might make both of them more effective.

Nice article. Ironic we just saw how Curry and Klay operate. It's nothing like that here.

[tonman]

Isn't Lin rolling in endorsement money and a Harvard graduate?

I'm guessing his decision to sign here was very calculated and he probably just decided that the opportunity to play for a team and coach that he believed in and will value him was worth more than the extra money he could have gotten, and the chance to potentially increase his earnings either this off-season or next gives him some financial upside as well.

If he puts up 13/4/3/1 in 25 minutes at his career efficiency and plays good defense for a playoff team he is going to get paid pretty well under the new CBA. I expect his play to normalize as the season continues and he gets more comfortable and hopefully healthy.

I argue with you guys a lot about who is currently playing better between he and Kemba and which should start, but I honestly don't think Kemba is that much better, if at all. I've been saying they are roughly equal as players since the beginning of the season, but I personally think Kemba might have a higher ceiling. Lin just isn't currently playing up to his potential for whatever reason. Its too early to be concerned though.

as I've said before, if you play enough minutes, you can work through your "tough" stretches. against GS, Kemba was 0-8 in the first half and still shot 2-8 in the second before the white flag came out and the end of the bench came in. otherwise he could have played more minutes and attempted more shots.

you need to develop your bench and that is playing them consistent minutes.

[bws94]

There is something seriously wrong with some of you.

I thought I had an unhealthy obsession with a group of 15 basketball players. Some of this thread is just madness.

Like it or not the Linsanity stretch in New York was a phenomenon that was bigger than anything that has ever happened in Hornets history. That month of basketball was must see TV even for non NBA fans, those Knicks games probably had more viewers than any full season of Hornets basketball ever. People always love an underdog story and are curious to see how this one ends... Just be happy you have a containment thread!

It was wonderful. But it was 3 years ago. It was the perfect storm for Lin and he played with a hunger and drive that frankly he doesn't play with now. But, today's Lin has to fit into whatever team he goes to. Like Braggins said, he's not playing up to potential. And whatever moves are made in terms of how he's use have to go with how he plays now, like how he played for a stretch 3 years ago.

[bws94]

tonman, Lin will improve with minutes. But in terms of shooting out of it, he tends not to do that anymore. What he does tend to do is come alive certain parts of the game and seem to just be complementary other times of the game. Like, he recognized pressure on Kemba and then took over in the Sacramento game looking a lot like Linsanity. But, how often does he do that? And even if pressure isn't on Kemba, he can just be more assertive. No?

[Liver_Pooty]

I swear. Its almost as if some of you actually want Hornet fans to hate Lin with some of the crazy nonsense that is spewed on here. It won't work, though. I like him. Really solid player.

But I've never seen such madness in my life.

[Braggins]

Isn't Lin rolling in endorsement money and a Harvard graduate?

I'm guessing his decision to sign here was very calculated and he probably just decided that the opportunity to play for a team and coach that he believed in and will value him was worth more than the extra money he could have gotten, and the chance to potentially increase his earnings either this off-season or next gives him some financial upside as well.

If he puts up 13/4/3/1 in 25 minutes at his career efficiency and plays good defense for a playoff team he is going to get paid pretty well under the new CBA. I expect his play to normalize as the season continues and he gets more comfortable and hopefully healthy.

I argue with you guys a lot about who is currently playing better between he and Kemba and which should start, but I honestly don't think Kemba is that much better, if at all. I've been saying they are roughly equal as players since the beginning of the season, but I personally think Kemba might have a higher ceiling. Lin just isn't currently playing up to his potential for whatever reason. Its too early to be concerned though.

as I've said before, if you play enough minutes, you can work through your "tough" stretches. against GS, Kemba was 0-8 in the first half and still shot 2-8 in the second before the white flag came out and the end of the bench came in. otherwise he could have played more minutes and attempted more shots.

you need to develop your bench and that is playing them consistent minutes.

Lin wasn't healthy. That is the only reason he didn't play a bunch of minutes and why Brian Roberts touched the floor. The team collectively shat its pants and fell apart. 2 of our 5 scorers were out with injury. Curry was literally hitting 30 footers. Kemba had to take a bunch of shots. I wish he didn't play like garbage but it happens.

[Mystical Apples]

Isn't Lin rolling in endorsement money and a Harvard graduate?

I'm guessing his decision to sign here was very calculated and he probably just decided that the opportunity to play for a team and coach that he believed in and will value him was worth more than the extra money he could have gotten, and the chance to potentially increase his earnings either this off-season or next gives him some financial upside as well.

If he puts up 13/4/3/1 in 25 minutes at his career efficiency and plays good defense for a playoff team he is going to get paid pretty well under the new CBA. I expect his play to normalize as the season continues and he gets more comfortable and hopefully healthy.

I argue with you guys a lot about who is currently playing better between he and Kemba and which should start, but I honestly don't think Kemba is that much better, if at all. I've been saying they are roughly equal as players since the beginning of the season, but I personally think Kemba might have a higher ceiling. Lin just isn't currently playing up to his potential for whatever reason. Its too early to be concerned though.

as I've said before, if you play enough minutes, you can work through your "tough" stretches. against GS, Kemba was 0-8 in the first half and still shot 2-8 in the second before the white flag came out and the end of the bench came in. otherwise he could have played more minutes and attempted more shots.

you need to develop your bench and that is playing them consistent minutes.

Not hard to see where that becomes circular and fast. Lin is getting the 6th most minutes at 22 a game. What exactly is the appropriate intersection of minutes:efficiency for backups?

[13th Man]

Isn't Lin rolling in endorsement money and a Harvard graduate?

I'm guessing his decision to sign here was very calculated and he probably just decided that the opportunity to play for a team and coach that he believed in and will value him was worth more than the extra money he could have gotten, and the chance to potentially increase his earnings either this off-season or next gives him some financial upside as well.

That's correct. When I refer to him de-valuing himself, it's not really about the money persay but more so about having a certain self worth and being treated at that level or stature.

If he puts up 13/4/3/1 in 25 minutes at his career efficiency and plays good defense for a playoff team he is going to get paid pretty well under the new CBA. I expect his play to normalize as the season continues and he gets more comfortable and hopefully healthy.

Agreed, hopefully this will be the case as it would be better for the team as well. Lin played a lot better in the 2nd half of last season (under a different role, more pg action) so hopefully it could happen here as well.

I argue with you guys a lot about who is currently playing better between he and Kemba and which should start, but I honestly don't think Kemba is that much better, if at all. I've been saying they are roughly equal as players since the beginning of the season, but I personally think Kemba might have a higher ceiling. Lin just isn't currently playing up to his potential for whatever reason. Its too early to be concerned though.

To me, Kemba has been more impressive this season thus far for sure, but as things normalize I'm hoping to see the scale balance out a bit. Do I think Kemba is 34 to 22 minutes better? No.

I honestly don't see this as a Kemba vs. Lin thing though because Lin is not fighting for a starting spot, he just wants to be able to play his game and be a valuable part of the team. This is going to be difficult by yielding the least amount of minutes of his entire career and hardly getting to play pg which is his strength.

This is just my opinion and I could be wrong but getting right to the point without any sugar-coating: I think Kemba is being over-used at the PG position and Lin under-used. Here's another way of looking at it: Both are true PGs, Kemba gets to play 34 minutes a game at the pg position whereas Lin plays 10 at pg while 12 at sg. The discrepancy is huge (34-10 at pg).

This is Clifford's idealogy which I don't agree with. It may have seemed like a good idea initially but I don't see this being the most effective for the team. I wonder what Lin would've done if he knew he was going to play 5 minutes of pg per half, does that satisfy the "getting to play my game" criteria?

I think both player's effectiveness (Lin) and efficiency (Kemba) could be improved with more balance at the pg position. Whether this will happen who knows, not likely from what I'm seeing. There have been no indications to point to this direction, the only roles that have been changing are Jeremy Lamb's and Frank Kaminsky as of late.

[lin is ok]

whats he status of lin's ankle? is he fully recovered?

[tonman]

tonman, Lin will improve with minutes. But in terms of shooting out of it, he tends not to do that anymore. What he does tend to do is come alive certain parts of the game and seem to just be complementary other times of the game. Like, he recognized pressure on Kemba and then took over in the Sacramento game looking a lot like Linsanity. But, how often does he do that? And even if pressure isn't on Kemba, he can just be more assertive. No?

you are assuming that Lin gets to play his game. i listened to the GS game and in the 3rd quarter when Lin came in, for 3 minutes the play-by-play guy didn't mention his name. i'm thinking for 3 minutes Lin didn't even touch the ball. so how is he going to assert himself?

[13th Man]

tonman, Lin will improve with minutes. But in terms of shooting out of it, he tends not to do that anymore. What he does tend to do is come alive certain parts of the game and seem to just be complementary other times of the game. Like, he recognized pressure on Kemba and then took over in the Sacramento game looking a lot like Linsanity. But, how often does he do that? And even if pressure isn't on Kemba, he can just be more assertive. No?

you are assuming that Lin gets to play his game. i listened to the GS game and in the 3rd quarter when Lin came in, for 3 minutes the play-by-play guy didn't mention his name. i'm thinking for 3 minutes Lin didn't even touch the ball. so how is he going to assert himself?

Excuse me for interjecting but I don't think you can take much away from the GS game as he was hurt, Clifford could have been protecting him and Lin could've also been extra cautious or passive.

Looking at the big picture however, I do think that he could have the ball in his hands more by playing more PG/less SG each game.

[bws94]

Lin has one glaring weakness that holds him back from playing PG. His handles. I think he can easily fix the occasional tunnel vision and I think that's because of his handles. I think his shots will fall. I think he can learn when to roam and when to stay home on good 3 point shooters. But he needs to get his handles to the point where he can get to his spots when heavy pressure is applied. He can speed split defense and now defenses know it so they now scheme to where Lin gets sloppy with his handles. His dribbling is decent when he has space, it's his handles under pressure that just don't seem secure.

[Liver_Pooty]

Lin has one glaring weakness that holds him back from playing PG. His handles. I think he can easily fix the occasional tunnel vision and I think that's because of his handles. I think his shots will fall. I think he can learn when to roam and when to stay home on good 3 point shooters. But he needs to get his handles to the point where he can get to his spots when heavy pressure is applied. He can speed split defense and now defenses know it so they now scheme to where Lin gets sloppy with his handles. His dribbling is decent when he has space, it's his handles under pressure that just don't seem secure.

I like you, a lot. You're a Lin fan that is also a realist.

[Liver_Pooty]

tonman, Lin will improve with minutes. But in terms of shooting out of it, he tends not to do that anymore. What he does tend to do is come alive certain parts of the game and seem to just be complementary other times of the game. Like, he recognized pressure on Kemba and then took over in the Sacramento game looking a lot like Linsanity. But, how often does he do that? And even if pressure isn't on Kemba, he can just be more assertive. No?

you are assuming that Lin gets to play his game. i listened to the GS game and in the 3rd quarter when Lin came in, for 3 minutes the play-by-play guy didn't mention his name. i'm thinking for 3 minutes Lin didn't even touch the ball. so how is he going to assert himself?

Lin was questionable that game and probably shouldn't have even been playing. He looked sluggish due to his ankle.