We should trade Cousins ASAP

[Prethia]

I have many reasons to say this but first I will quote what I wrote for the SAC-OKC match.
"Check the stats of Cousins.He was the only reason for our loss which is no different than yesterday.Even though I like him if he wants to play from outside he hurts the team.His rebounding is worse,his defence is worse etc.He does not play in 20 matches in a regular season.In 10 of them(minumum) he gets into a foul trouble.At least in 10 of them his shooting percentage is awful and he is careless with the ball.These make us lose 33-34 matches(minumum).We should trade him while his value is so high.We do not have anyone who can play PF and Mclemore,Belinelli are inconsistent in offence.(their defence is horrible).We should aim to increase the depth of the squad and the number of good players instead of trying to make one "superstar" happy who cant make us win more than 30 games.There are too many possible scenarios which include 3 teams for a trade."

"DMC plays really good sometimes.But the problem is that,it is "sometimes" which do not help in the regular season.Check the rosters of Mavs,Jazz,Hornets even Hawks.They dont have a player who can be as good as Cousins but they have a team which helps them to get the W "

Even though I supported him for years it is now crystal clear that same scenario will happen over and over again.We should trade him before it is too late and when his trade value is the highest and build a team around Rondo who is the only one in the team who knows how to win games.At the moment our roster is (who regularly plays I did not include players like Curry since they get nearly no time to play.)
Rondo-Collison
Mclemore-Belinelli-Anderson
Gay-Casspi
No PF
Cousins-WCS-Koufos
From this it can be easily seen that we need at least 2 power forwards and a player like Beal who can make a very good synergy with Rondo.We can form a pretty good team when we trade Cousins and (Gay and Collison are our players who have high value in a trade so we can also trade them to fill our team.)Like I said there are too many possible scenarios which include 3-4 teams for this trades and we should chase them before it is too late.

[johanliebert]

Im glad nobody responded

[codydaze]

Just no. He went 0/3 from deep last night. Not that big a deal since he's shooting 30% from outside this year. When he starts jacking up 5-7 threes a game and not hitting them, then we might want to worry about his outside game but it's not a big deal right now. We would be better off trading Rudy at this point, honestly.

[Prethia]

It is not only him shooting 3 balls sorry but everyone who thinks we can be a winning team like this are in a big dream world.He never post ups.When he misses a shot from outside or tries to drive like Harden and fails he blames refree and do not turn to make defence.His playing minute average is 32 33 minutes,he did not play more than 20 games last season and he already missed 8 of 22 in this season.Now lets do the math.With a roster like this we are so dependent to Cousins that when he plays awful(like the last 3 matches) or when he gets foul trouble and cannot play or gets injured we cannot win.These 3 cases happen quite a long in regular season.Happened more than 35 40 matches last season and will happen at least the same amount this season considering he did not play 8 matches because of injury,played horribly in 4 of 5 matches and got in the foul trouble in at least 2 of them.These number already gives you 13-15 match where we played with either No Cousins or a Cousins who made us lose the game.If you want Kings to stay as a losing team but have a "superstar"(I agree on a skill basis that Cousins is top 5 or 8 players in the NBA right now but his mentality is...)
and try to make happy instead of having a good team which actually plays like a team and gives their all to win the game then go on and defend Cousins.But mark my words,without a really big miracle,we cannot win more than 40 in anytime soon (in 2-3 seasons) with Cousins.You dont need a superstar to be a winning team and we dont have a superstar which can make us a winner team.If you think Cousins can then you clearly did not watch him until now.The problem is not about what he can do in a dream world,it is what he does now

[codydaze]

Last year was the first Cousins was out for more than 10 games in the season. He's a little banged up this year but durability really hasn't been an issue for him. Also, he's getting the most post touches on the team and the 15th most in the league. I agree that I would like to see him get some more work in the post but with as well as he can shoot the ball, it's not really an issue. I would say that are biggest problem is the lack of outside shooting. Outside of Casspi, no one has been able to consistently and reliably hit the outside shot, even Belinelli. If we had some shooters on the outside that were a threat to knock down the outside shot, it would free up some space for Cousins down low. Also, we just need to play better defense as a team. You are aware that we are one of the worst defensive teams in the league right? We were giving up 109 PPG before last night's game against OKC. We're actually scoring the ball at a decent clip but we need to play better defense which will make the rest of the game easier. Cousins has slumped the last few games but to say he's the problem is not accurate whatsoever.

[Kings2013]

The results of losing are just going to bring stuff like this again

1. Cousins may not be utilized correctly now

2. The team has a ridiculous record without him, 11-38 last I checked, without him over the last several years

3. You won't get equal value per talent due to his malcontent reputation and current slump

4. I believe in the talent of the team - Rondo/WCS/Gay/Cuz/Casspi/Koufos/Curry etc and think it needs time, potentially different coach

Etc

A lot of what you are talking about has to do with the way the coaching staff is using him - how much he posts and where he is shooting and his ability to keep up with the pace

[SacSanity]

The results of losing are just going to bring stuff like this again.. Too afraid to use your real account?

1. Cousins may not be utilized correctly now

2. The team has a ridiculous record without him, 11-38 last I checked, without him over the last several years

3. You won't get equal value per talent due to his malcontent reputation and current slump

4. I believe in the talent of the team - Rondo/WCS/Gay/Cuz/Casspi/Koufos/Curry etc and think it needs time, potentially different coach

Etc

A lot of what you are talking about has to do with the way the coaching staff is using him - how much he posts and where he is shooting and his ability to keep up with the pace

I think I might know who this guy is, may be someone who really supports Karl

I have to agree with you mostly. But over these past games, watching how Karl runs the team... it's literally becoming: 1) Trade Cousins for maximum values or 2) Get rid of Karl and pick up a coach (similar to Malone) that will run him on the post and get him to play D.

I agree with some of the points the OP brought up though. Cousins has reverted back to his poor attitude of just complaining with a sour look on his face. How many times have we seen Cousins get multiple offensive boards/put backs the last couple of seasons? Ask yourself this, how many times have we seen it this year. I notice him just standing at the 3pt line. I watch his lazy defense get burnt so many times.

In my opinion this is all a product of George Karl and the system he runs. It doesn't work for Cousins. What he wants Cousins to do is a detriment to his game and the teams game. This is just Cousins probably throwing to get Karl out of here. If that's the case, I like it a lot more than complaining to the media.

[bleeds_purple]

The results of losing are just going to bring stuff like this again.. Too afraid to use your real account?

1. Cousins may not be utilized correctly now

2. The team has a ridiculous record without him, 11-38 last I checked, without him over the last several years

3. You won't get equal value per talent due to his malcontent reputation and current slump

4. I believe in the talent of the team - Rondo/WCS/Gay/Cuz/Casspi/Koufos/Curry etc and think it needs time, potentially different coach

Etc

A lot of what you are talking about has to do with the way the coaching staff is using him - how much he posts and where he is shooting and his ability to keep up with the pace

I think I might know who this guy is, may be someone who really supports Karl

I have to agree with you mostly. But over these past games, watching how Karl runs the team... it's literally becoming: 1) Trade Cousins for maximum values or 2) Get rid of Karl and pick up a coach (similar to Malone) that will run him on the post and get him to play D.

I agree with some of the points the OP brought up though. Cousins has reverted back to his poor attitude of just complaining with a sour look on his face. How many times have we seen Cousins get multiple offensive boards/put backs the last couple of seasons? Ask yourself this, how many times have we seen it this year. I notice him just standing at the 3pt line. I watch his lazy defense get burnt so many times.

In my opinion this is all a product of George Karl and the system he runs. It doesn't work for Cousins. What he wants Cousins to do is a detriment to his game and the teams game. This is just Cousins probably throwing to get Karl out of here. If that's the case, I like it a lot more than complaining to the media.

Exactly.

How many charges have we seen him take this year? Conversely, how many times have we seen him spend him trailing the play by 5-10 seconds as we run the highest pace in the league? Moreover, how many times do we see him bull into the paint on a drive only to fall down recklessly. I wonder if that leads to him being perpetually banged up? I know if I was throwing myself on the floor 50 times a day I'd probably feel it and Cousins has close 100 pounds on me.

The same things can be said for Gay. He's a damn good high-post player who can use his length. Now we have turned him into an entirely perimeter player.

Honestly, every player on the team should be utterly frustrated. The only other rational response would be apathy. There can be no joy under these circumstances. They are being put in a position to fail.

[SacKingZZZ]

I hate to say it, but this might be broached pretty soon whether we all like it or not. I guess it depends on what kind of GM Vlade is. Is he the never say die type that will go down the ship and the coach? I'm not sure that can happen with how disappointing the team and situation overall is getting. Patience is a virtue, but this could get real ugly it too much time goes on and no positives start to appear.

Is Vlade the type that recognizes a talent like Cousins is worth it and Vlade figures he gave Karl a shot and now it's time to go with his own gut (if Cuz isn't ready to be out himself of course)? Is the staff using the players HE chose the right way? Did he choose them with any specific idea in mind? This is yet another backwards team building exercise. The Kings might be able to write the book on why you hire a GM and then a coach.

Or is he the type that figures a fresh start is the way to go and this wasn't his mess to begin with? Either way if things don't get really good here pretty soon I think some shakeups are on the horizon and unfortunately they may be the kind that sets the team back talent wise for a long time. Record wise? Not sure it matters much. If you're going to lose anyway there's no point in sitting in the middle. We all suffered through that for way too long, can't do that again so soon after.

I think there is a reason Vlade is traveling with the team. I think it has a lot to do with him trying to figure out for himself what's going on between the staff and the players. I have a feeling he will eventually choose a direction on which to point the finger of blame.

[Prethia]

First of all this is my first account and I found this forum while I was searching for Sacremento Kings forum(I am someone who lives in Europe and there are not much forums in there so I created this account to share my thoughts about the team and the status of Cousins in the team after witnessing how he played this season.

Our defence has 2-3 main problems.First one is that we dont defend the 3 point line in any match.Second is that we give too many offensive rebs.Third is Cousins, like it or not.He can play very hard defence when he wants but he does not.
Also we need at least two Power Forwards(we have none at the moment.) and a solid SG.Even the idea of Kings can get them without giving at least Cousins and preserve the other roles is frankly childish.And I prefer Batum over Gay.I am also interested on Beal.As all of you can see our SG defence is nearly in par with the college teams.Even Reddick plays like Jordan against Mclemore and Belinelli.

Rondo-Back up Pg(Ish Smith-Collison)
Beal- Belinelli or Mclemore
Batum-Casspi
Above Average PF-Back up PF
Above Average Center-Koufos
Even with just trading Cousins,Gay and Mclemore We can have a team which is 2x better than our previous one and would not lose every match when a specific player is injured or plays horribly in both offence and defence.I respect all of your opinions since we are all human and we cant think the exact same but please give a case in which you believe we will be a winning team with Cousins.It is clearly not gonna happen when we have 0 Power Forwards.Even when we play with Rondo-Collison-Gay-Casspi-Cousins, Cousins tries to crossover behind the 3 pt line which indicates his problem is not spacing.Just look at other teams and what they accomplish with their limited roster and how hard we fail with our roster.
I dont like how Karl is managing the team until now but with proper trades we can form a team which goes in sync with his system.Also Rondo-Beal seems like a perfect match.
Maybe we can trade Cousins for Beal-Nene and use Nene s expiring contract to be active in FA and give contracts to Beal-Rondo or we can get Gortat instead of Nene. This is perfectly logical for Wizards as well because of their goals in the next year.This is just a thought,one of the many scenarios which can happen.Even the thought of Wall-Durant and a good DMC is insane.


This can be an another scenario but it is less likely for Wizards and LA to accept I think.And correct me If I am wrong in these trade since I dont know who holds the 2016 1st draft of Lakers
Nene,Beal <-Gay,Koufos
Randle+Clarkson+Hibbert+2016 1st draft-Cousins+Mclemore.We can use the expiring contracts of Hibbert and Nene to be active in FA and giving contracts to Rondo,Beal next year.

I feel like I wandered away from subject so what I want from you is the following.Please make a counter argument if you think keeping Cousins and playing with 0 pf and a weak rotation will help us win more than creating a team with trading him and if you partly agree on this dont hesitate to add your own thoughts.I feel like this is the most important decision Kings will make and will be the difference in our winning record for the next 3-4 years.

[Kings2013]

0 PF? The Kings just used the 6th pick on one. He's injured though

Batum will get paid and will have his choice in FA

WCS/Cousins 'can' be a good front court duo

We can get another SG in free agency.

I guess it's opinion. I think we might not agree on how long it takes a team to build cohesion and how much coaching matters

[Illmatic12]

Wiz would do Beal + Gortat + 1st

[SacSanity]

Wiz would do Beal + Gortat + 1st

That sounds mildly tempting. How has Beal been this year?

[Prethia]

To me Beal plays really good this year.One could even argue that Wizards are starting to be more like a Beal's team instead of Wall's team this season.And WCS is center not a power forward.Having Cousins-WCS or Koufos-Cousins in the court is one of the main reasons of our stupid spacing where Cousins plays behind the 3 pts line and our 3 pts defence.
But I would agree on WCS-Cousins can be potentially a really good duo later if WCS can improve his shot(at least starts to make mid range shots in a real game like he does in the training)and if we could convince Cousins to play inside they would be legitimate in offence.Also in defence WCS needs to learn what he should do in which situations.He is a very good 1 v 1 defender but he does not have good habits for a good team defence.But he is still young and he can learn/improve all of these if he works hard enough.He has the potential.But right now I think any duo of DMC-WCS-Koufos in the court at the same time hurts both our offence and defence most of the time.Spacing is really a big issue

[Illmatic12]

Wiz would do Beal + Gortat + 1st

That sounds mildly tempting. How has Beal been this year?

Beal is averaging an efficient 20ppg, I think he has a chance to be an All-Star this year.

And he is only 22yo. I don't think the Kings are likely to get a higher upside prospect than Beal if they trade Cousins.

Wiz would do it because a Wall+Cousins combo alone would be enough to run the East, but would also be a huge draw for Durant to come home and win championships. That team would be more talented and much better fitting imo than the current OKC team.

[SacKingZZZ]

IF the Kings were to deal Cousins there is only one deal out there and we know what it is. The Nets pick, expirings, and hopefully Smart if you could snag him from Boston. I can see a combo deal of sending he and Rondo in a package to Boston and whammo the C's are instant contenders and the Kings are in instant suckville, but a better suckville than where they are if they stayed where they are at currently.

Lee, Smart, and Amir Johnson, 1st for Cuz and Rondo.

[Kings2013]

IF the Kings were to deal Cousins there is only one deal out there and we know what it is. The Nets pick, expirings, and hopefully Smart if you could snag him from Boston. I can see a combo deal of sending he and Rondo in a package to Boston and whammo the C's are instant contenders and the Kings are in instant suckville, but a better suckville than where they are if they stayed where they are at currently.

Lee, Smart, and Amir Johnson, 1st for Cuz and Rondo.

Suckville swapping pick with Philly the next two years and giving up that unprotected in 2019. Which is why I don't think they would go that route

Smart to me is even a questionably good player. There is no telling what that Brooklyn pick would be

It takes time. Rondo/Gay/WCS/Cousins/Curry/Casspi/Koufos are too talented to stay down. You make changes, not tear down IMO

[SacSanity]

IF the Kings were to deal Cousins there is only one deal out there and we know what it is. The Nets pick, expirings, and hopefully Smart if you could snag him from Boston. I can see a combo deal of sending he and Rondo in a package to Boston and whammo the C's are instant contenders and the Kings are in instant suckville, but a better suckville than where they are if they stayed where they are at currently.

Lee, Smart, and Amir Johnson, 1st for Cuz and Rondo.

Suckville swapping pick with Philly the next two years and giving up that unprotected in 2019. Which is why I don't think they would go that route

Smart to me is even a questionably good player. There is no telling what that Brooklyn pick would be

It takes time. Rondo/Gay/WCS/Cousins/Curry/Casspi/Koufos are too talented to stay down. You make changes, not tear down IMO

Well, the resolution seems obvious. Fire Karl and get a Coach you know will be a team player. One that will understand adaptation based off of personnel.

[Kings2013]

IF the Kings were to deal Cousins there is only one deal out there and we know what it is. The Nets pick, expirings, and hopefully Smart if you could snag him from Boston. I can see a combo deal of sending he and Rondo in a package to Boston and whammo the C's are instant contenders and the Kings are in instant suckville, but a better suckville than where they are if they stayed where they are at currently.

Lee, Smart, and Amir Johnson, 1st for Cuz and Rondo.

Suckville swapping pick with Philly the next two years and giving up that unprotected in 2019. Which is why I don't think they would go that route

Smart to me is even a questionably good player. There is no telling what that Brooklyn pick would be

It takes time. Rondo/Gay/WCS/Cousins/Curry/Casspi/Koufos are too talented to stay down. You make changes, not tear down IMO

Well, the resolution seems obvious. Fire Karl and get a Coach you know will be a team player. One that will understand adaptation based off of personnel.

That's my resolution, and I would expect it this summer at this rate. Not to blame absolutely everything on Karl, but I would like to see this talented roster in another's hands before giving up on it, personally. Although it's opinion. I really feel we may have a past prime coach under-utilizing what we have, and it's tough to make decisions on that

[jeffjtk1234]

This summer is too late rondo isn't staying here if we are a lottery team again. I can't see it happening.