Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

Dark Faze · Post #1941 » by **Dark Faze** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 3:31 pm

I think trying to win the race to best small ball team is a losing one. Minus unbelievable depth, it's extremely taxing on your stars. A guy like Faried doesn't match the narrative in regards to the leagues movement--and yet his PER is awesome and he has a great impact night in and night out--was the MVP in an extremely small ball focused unit overseas for FIBA.

It's less about Faried than it is about my trust in Walls ability to get the most out of a guy like Kenneth.

Dark Faze · Post #1942 » by **Dark Faze** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 3:34 pm

krii wrote:"but right now we have zero rim protection with Gortat and its resulting in our guards running around like chickens with their heads cut off on the perimeter trying to deny absolutely every action--jumpshot, drive, everything because they don't expect help."
I like this "zero rim protection with Gortat" talks. It's almost like saying "Gortat's **** defensively" whilst he is one the best defensive centers in the game. I mean ... it's okay to say that MG isn't anywhere near Shaq or Duncan but "zero rim protection" means that Gortat is worser than, say, Kevin Seraphin. Whoa. Fun fact - he isn't.

one of the best defensive centers in the game? bruh...no.

krii · Post #1943 » by **krii** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 3:44 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
krii wrote:"but right now we have zero rim protection with Gortat and its resulting in our guards running around like chickens with their heads cut off on the perimeter trying to deny absolutely every action--jumpshot, drive, everything because they don't expect help."
I like this "zero rim protection with Gortat" talks. It's almost like saying "Gortat's **** defensively" whilst he is one the best defensive centers in the game. I mean ... it's okay to say that MG isn't anywhere near Shaq or Duncan but "zero rim protection" means that Gortat is worser than, say, Kevin Seraphin. Whoa. Fun fact - he isn't.

one of the best defensive centers in the game? bruh...no.

Right. He started that season poorly but last season he was 11th in the league with DWS (DeAndre Jordan, Tim Duncan, Marc Gasol, Andre Drummond, Rudy Gobert as centers were better + a few of PFs), in 2013/14 he was 19th (Noah, Jordan, Hibbert, Jefferson, Duncan, Howard, Bogut). Is that not "one of the best defensive centers in the league"?

Dark Faze · Post #1944 » by **Dark Faze** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 3:58 pm

not really no

those numbers came from an era where this was a defensive focused basketball club before everyone decided to go small--playing next to Nene who was a fantastic defender at PF.

I'm not saying he's bad. He's average. Average won't get it done if we continue to go small. In all fairness to him, we've had dreadful PF defenders next to him this year--Dudley and Hump.

Post #1945 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 4:11 pm

In my stuff, Gortat was better than average defensively last season. He ranked 10th among centers in my defensive impact rating. This year, he's down to 18th.

The lack of a starter-quality PF is a significant problem for them this season.

Dark Faze · Post #1946 » by **Dark Faze** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 4:47 pm

We know Dudley isn't a defensive answer either. Far too slow laterally at this point--in shape or no.

And its looking like Porter can't do it either. I thought he might be able to do it--he's okay offensively there and might eventually even be good on the glass, but he offers absolutely nothing in regards to rim protection. That's disappointing, as I was hoping we'd be able to make a Porter/Durant 3/4 situation work, but its looking more and more like Durants position here if he comes will be at SF alongside a better defensive 4.

And we're better off looking to acquire that guy sooner rather than later. I'd like to move Hump as part of whatever that deal might be.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #1947 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 4:50 pm

Wizards would be wise to consider Josh Smith.

I would.

Nene and the guy who Randy Wittman hates...

stevemcqueen1 · Post #1948 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 4:51 pm

No thanks on Gortat for Hibbert. I'm one of the few NBA fans left that still likes Hibbert, but Gortat is better than him, and a much better fit for our team. The only thing Hibbert does better than Gortat is protect the rim. But Gortat is a good enough rim protector. He can run, Hibbert can't. He's a great PnR roll man and Hibbert isn't. And he's a better rebounder.

Our starting C position ain't broke. What we need to fix is PF.

But I'd also pass on J Smoove. I think it's becoming clear he's some sort of cancerous presence in a locker room. Both Detroit and Atlanta took major steps forward when they dumped him.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #1949 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 4:55 pm

Steve I think white guy answer differs from black guy answer on "cancer". If not color, there's SOMETHING predictive; conservative vs liberal, hourly vs salaried, no structure vs high structure.....As to what's a team cancer.

Dark Faze · Post #1950 » by **Dark Faze** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 4:59 pm

Thoughts on Porter and Hump, possibly a decently protected future 1st (not this year) for Faried?

If we're sure Porter can't defend alongside Gortat at PF, and we're reasonably sure Durant doesn't or can't play PF full time, then that means Porter would end up a bench player for us as a best case scenario--and we've seen his value in that role is pretty minimal.

Wall
Beal
Anderson
Faried
Gortat

next year

Wall
Beal
Durant
Faried
Gortat

Post #1951 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:04 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Wizards would be wise to consider Josh Smith.

I would.

Nene and the guy who Randy Wittman hates...

Consider? Sure. Just so long as the conclusion is "nah." He's been horribly inefficient and a net negative on the court. I'd pass on Smith.

Post #1952 » by **nate33** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:05 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Wizards would be wise to consider Josh Smith.

I would.

Nene and the guy who Randy Wittman hates...

Josh Smith is an interesting idea. In terms of basketball skill, he really addresses what we lack. He can provide defense at the 4, and he can run the floor. He has shown some flashes of being a passable 3PT shooter, but the moments have been fleeting. I'd be much more excited about him if he was shooting the 32% 3P% he shot in Houston, not the 26% he shot with Detroit and now in LA.

CCJ, you gotta admit that mcqueen has a point about Smith being a "cancer". Teams have moved heaven and earth just to get rid of him, and his on/off differentials have been horrific except for his stint in Houston.

If we wanted to acquire him, I'd have to have some assurance that we could get Houston Smith and not Detroit Smith or LA Smith. I don't know how to determine that. Did he have friends in Houston? Did he have a real good relationship with McHale? Was it because he was playing with Howard? What was it that made him play decently in Houston and can it be replicated?

stevemcqueen1 · Post #1953 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:06 pm

Dark Faze wrote:I think trying to win the race to best small ball team is a losing one. Minus unbelievable depth, it's extremely taxing on your stars. A guy like Faried doesn't match the narrative in regards to the leagues movement--and yet his PER is awesome and he has a great impact night in and night out--was the MVP in an extremely small ball focused unit overseas for FIBA.

It's less about Faried than it is about my trust in Walls ability to get the most out of a guy like Kenneth.

IIRC, Faried played C for Team USA.

Post #1954 » by **nate33** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:08 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Thoughts on Porter and Hump, possibly a decently protected future 1st (not this year) for Faried?

If we're sure Porter can't defend alongside Gortat at PF, and we're reasonably sure Durant doesn't or can't play PF full time, then that means Porter would end up a bench player for us as a best case scenario--and we've seen his value in that role is pretty minimal.

Wall
Beal
Anderson
Faried
Gortat

next year

Wall
Beal
Durant
Faried
Gortat

As Dat2U pointed out, Faried is not the answer. He is really "just a guy" at the PF position. He doesn't really bring anything to the table that can't be replicated pretty cheaply. Is he really much better than Humphries? If he is, he's not $12M a year better, not to mention the loss of Porter.

This is a horrible trade offer with the inclusion of Porter. Porter is going to be a much better player.

Post #1955 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:09 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Wizards would be wise to consider Josh Smith.

I would.

Nene and the guy who Randy Wittman hates...

Josh Smith is an interesting idea. In terms of basketball skill, he really addresses what we lack. He can provide defense at the 4, and he can run the floor. He has shown some flashes of being a passable 3PT shooter, but the moments have been fleeting. I'd be much more excited about him if he was shooting the 32% 3P% he shot in Houston, not the 26% he shot with Detroit and now in LA.

CCJ, you gotta admit that mcqueen has a point about Smith being a "cancer". Teams have moved heaven and earth just to get rid of him, and his on/off differentials have been horrific except for his stint in Houston.

If we wanted to acquire him, I'd have to have some assurance that we could get Houston Smith and not Detroit Smith or LA Smith. I don't know how to determine that. Did he have friends in Houston? Did he have a real good relationship with McHale? Was it because he was playing with Howard? What was it that made him play decently in Houston and can it be replicated?

Have you looked at Smith's offensive efficiency the past few seasons? The last time he approached average was 2010-11. He's now into his 4th consecutive season with an ortg below 100 and a usage rate above 20.

Post #1956 » by **TheSecretWeapon** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:Thoughts on Porter and Hump, possibly a decently protected future 1st (not this year) for Faried?

If we're sure Porter can't defend alongside Gortat at PF, and we're reasonably sure Durant doesn't or can't play PF full time, then that means Porter would end up a bench player for us as a best case scenario--and we've seen his value in that role is pretty minimal.

Wall
Beal
Anderson
Faried
Gortat

next year

Wall
Beal
Durant
Faried
Gortat

As Dat2U pointed out, Faried is not the answer. He is really "just a guy" at the PF position. He doesn't really bring anything to the table that can't be replicated pretty cheaply. Is he really much better than Humphries? If he is, he's not $12M a year better, not to mention the loss of Porter.

This is a horrible trade offer with the inclusion of Porter. Porter is going to be a much better player.

Faried is a much better player than Humphries, but the Wizards can't trade for him because of their Free Agent in 2016 strategy.

Dark Faze · Post #1957 » by **Dark Faze** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:12 pm

I really think you're underrating him. Is there another "just a guy" PF who averages over 25 minutes per game over his career with an average PER of 19?

He's played next to...who at center for his entire career? There's no team that has had a consistently worse center situation over the last decade besides Philly. The worse the guys ORTG has ever been is 111.

Dark Faze · Post #1958 » by **Dark Faze** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:13 pm

TheSecretWeapon wrote:Faried is a much better player than Humphries, but the Wizards can't trade for him because of their Free Agent in 2016 strategy.

If it's Porter and Hump we're giving up, then we'd still have money for KD.

queridiculo · Post #1959 » by **queridiculo** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:14 pm

sportscrazy wrote:With Colangelo in Philly now, I wonder if they would take a shot at a young player that isn't a rookie such as Beal. While they can offer a deal to him outright using cap space, Beal's restricted free agency obviously means Washington can match. If the Wizards didn't want to match a big offer for Beal, but didn't want to lose him for nothing either, what would be a fair value for them to get back from the 76ers either straight up or in a multi-team deal?

Beal has played and advanced in the playoffs 2 out of his first 3 seasons played, he isn't going to sign for the Sixers, not with a whole host of competitive teams being able to offer him near max deals this coming summer.

Once the trade deadline has past the best Washington can hope for is some sort of sign and trade deal, he won't have any value beyond that if not signed to an extension.

sportscrazy · Post #1960 » by **sportscrazy** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 5:16 pm

queridiculo wrote:
sportscrazy wrote:With Colangelo in Philly now, I wonder if they would take a shot at a young player that isn't a rookie such as Beal. While they can offer a deal to him outright using cap space, Beal's restricted free agency obviously means Washington can match. If the Wizards didn't want to match a big offer for Beal, but didn't want to lose him for nothing either, what would be a fair value for them to get back from the 76ers either straight up or in a multi-team deal?

Beal has played and advanced in the playoffs 2 out of his first 3 seasons played, he isn't going to sign for the Sixers, not with a whole host of competitive teams being able to offer him near max deals this coming summer.

Once the trade deadline has past the best Washington can hope for is some sort of sign and trade deal, he won't have any value beyond that if not signed to an extension.

If Philly lands Ben Simmons with their own pick and Jamal Murray with the Lakers pick then a core of Jahlil Okafor, Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid, Dario Saric, Robert Covington, Nik Stauskas, Ben Simmons, Jamal Murray, Bradley Beal and other young pieces could have some potential.