Why is Whiteside getting no shots?

[ndnow]

Ok, lets sit Whiteside for 10 games and see what our record turns out to be.

Weird argument. Why sit someone entire games when he's still useful in situations? No point in throwing the toys.

You are basically saying he is useless, numbers show it and they favor this coaching staff. So ok, i said let's sit him, and see how the #s turn out then, since they already don't favor him.

How did you get that idea out of anything he wrote? You should read it a few more times.

[EscapoTHB]

The NBA stats page is more difficult to use than I remember, but I managed to find this:
Comparison of the team with Whiteside on/off the court.

Whiteside on: ortg101.5, drtg98.8, pace95.35
Whiteside off: ortg102, drtg89.5, pace96.83

We go from outscoring teams by 2.7 pts per 100 possessions to 12.6 pts per 100 possessions. From squeaking by teams to blowing them out. We are better offensively AND defensively with Whiteside on the bench. It's not an insignificant sample of minutes either. We play faster, we pass the ball more and only lose a tiny amount in total rebounding. That's largely due to offensive rebounding. We do a better job on the defensive glass without him.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to letting a generational big go if it makes us better. Imagine if we could add a Durant caliber wing to these numbers. We'd be Warriors class then. Spo is the first one to win a title with small ball. It's his blueprint that GS is perfecting. So it's entirely conceivable that his system offensively and defensively prefers smaller horses.

This roster is built to run. I think the numbers support what my eyes hinted at. We look and perform better with Whiteside on the bench. There are situations when Whiteside is a necessary asset. But I'm not certain we need to force his minutes, and I don't think we need to be codling him to try and retain him on an exorbitant salary. There are better fitting pieces available in FA. Durant is one of them.

But it's not Hassan or Durant,that's not the question we'll likely to face.

It's Hassan Or MAYBE Batum/Harrison Barnes.

And it's a 26YO Hassan, still growing as a player.

Of course you take Durant over Hassan if it comes down to that, even the biggest Hassan fans recognize Durant is the superior talent. but it won't come down to that.

I do agree with your other point - I aint worried about Hassan PPG like some posters here and not even about minutes (as long he gets reasonable playing time).

This isn't fantasy BB, as long as we're on a winning formula that comes Before Hassan's ego. Not to mention there's no point in bloating his stats before free agency. Unlike others I'm not sure he gets full max offers (22.5) from other teams. In any case, you play the lineups that help you win, the end goal is wining, not catering to 1 player. And Hassan isn't always going to be the best way to win, as good as he is in some aspects, he's also a negative in others (FT, Passing and spacing).

This and as I pointed out in the other thread, I highly doubt he's gonna leave because he was benched in a few 4th quarters, especially after we were the team that gave him the chance to shine in the first place. Before some idiot comes in here and tries to spin this as me saying he has an obligation to stay here, of course he doesn't, I'm just adding points that support him staying here.

Some people here really need a lesson in team management. They'd wash one players' feet if they had to, but forget that success requires a working group. In some instances, the group simply works better without Hassan in it.

The problem is that this reflects systemic choices, not player talents. I would say that we are choosing to play a system that does not take advantage of Whiteside, and this his success comes in spite of the system he is being used in. I think the team would be better playing a different way than it does. We saw last season even when we were healthy, Spo wasn't getting the best out of this roster, even without Whiteside. I have serious reservations that this coaching staff is a good match for the talent that we have here.

[KingDavid]

But it's not Hassan or Durant,that's not the question we'll likely to face.

It's Hassan Or MAYBE Batum/Harrison Barnes.

And it's a 26YO Hassan, still growing as a player.

Of course you take Durant over Hassan if it comes down to that, even the biggest Hassan fans recognize Durant is the superior talent. but it won't come down to that.

I do agree with your other point - I aint worried about Hassan PPG like some posters here and not even about minutes (as long he gets reasonable playing time).

This isn't fantasy BB, as long as we're on a winning formula that comes Before Hassan's ego. Not to mention there's no point in bloating his stats before free agency. Unlike others I'm not sure he gets full max offers (22.5) from other teams. In any case, you play the lineups that help you win, the end goal is wining, not catering to 1 player. And Hassan isn't always going to be the best way to win, as good as he is in some aspects, he's also a negative in others (FT, Passing and spacing).

This and as I pointed out in the other thread, I highly doubt he's gonna leave because he was benched in a few 4th quarters, especially after we were the team that gave him the chance to shine in the first place. Before some idiot comes in here and tries to spin this as me saying he has an obligation to stay here, of course he doesn't, I'm just adding points that support him staying here.

Some people here really need a lesson in team management. They'd wash one players' feet if they had to, but forget that success requires a working group. In some instances, the group simply works better without Hassan in it.

The problem is that this reflects systemic choices, not player talents. I would say that we are choosing to play a system that does not take advantage of Whiteside, and this his success comes in spite of the system he is being used in. I think the team would be better playing a different way than it does. We saw last season even when we were healthy, Spo wasn't getting the best out of this roster, even without Whiteside. I have serious reservations that this coaching staff is a good match for the talent that we have here.

This is the mindset I'm leaning towards. But what you're asking for would require a whole new coach.

Whiteside used to have a nice quick jumpshot, but then got swole too fast over the summer and lost his touch. So now it's an ugly and sloooow ass shot. Someone posted various videos of his shot last year vs this year, it's night and day and much worse this year.

We would need the following to happen
Dragic
Wade that can shoot 3s
Ariza or Batum for Deng
Bosh playing like a max player consistently.
Whiteside gaining his quick shot back and improving from the FT line and passing more.

Bench
Tj being tj consistently.
Green becoming more consistent (his shot iq has improved tremendously though)
Winslow. Ugh. Climb that rookie wall and learn to shoot already.
Get rid of mcbob for Ryan Anderson.
Please play birdman.

Looks like mcbob and Deng should be on their way out for better shooting counterparts. Winslow and wade being unable to shoot hurts really bad but we're invested in them. So having a good shooting, starting SF and a good shooting, bench PF or spacing problem tremendously or at least is a step in the right direction. Although Winslow and wade learning to hit 3s would be the easiest route...

As far as us being better with Whiteside on the bench, that's convoluted as ****. We have players that don't fit together, playing in a system that doesn't cater to all their strengths and all of that is rounded up with a lack of spacing with the starters and the bench. The team as a whole feels like it's built all wrong. The 3 highest paid players need to fit with one another and be effective. That's where it starts. THEN you make a system to put them in their most efficient and effective areas to score. THEN you surround them with defenders and shooters and a 6th man that can perfectly support them (Gerald Green or some other play maker as 6th man). This is why SAS have been so lethal every year.

[Flash4thewin]

This and as I pointed out in the other thread, I highly doubt he's gonna leave because he was benched in a few 4th quarters, especially after we were the team that gave him the chance to shine in the first place. Before some idiot comes in here and tries to spin this as me saying he has an obligation to stay here, of course he doesn't, I'm just adding points that support him staying here.

Some people here really need a lesson in team management. They'd wash one players' feet if they had to, but forget that success requires a working group. In some instances, the group simply works better without Hassan in it.

The problem is that this reflects systemic choices, not player talents. I would say that we are choosing to play a system that does not take advantage of Whiteside, and this his success comes in spite of the system he is being used in. I think the team would be better playing a different way than it does. We saw last season even when we were healthy, Spo wasn't getting the best out of this roster, even without Whiteside. I have serious reservations that this coaching staff is a good match for the talent that we have here.

This is the mindset I'm leaning towards. But what you're asking for would require a whole new coach.

Whiteside used to have a nice quick jumpshot, but then got swole too fast over the summer and lost his touch. So now it's an ugly and sloooow ass shot. Someone posted various videos of his shot last year vs this year, it's night and day and much worse this year.

We would need the following to happen
Dragic
Wade that can shoot 3s
Ariza or Batum for Deng
Bosh playing like a max player consistently.
Whiteside gaining his quick shot back and improving from the FT line and passing more.

Bench
Tj being tj consistently.
Green becoming more consistent (his shot iq has improved tremendously though)
Winslow. Ugh. Climb that rookie wall and learn to shoot already.
Get rid of mcbob for Ryan Anderson.
Please play birdman.

Looks like mcbob and Deng should be on their way out for better shooting counterparts. Winslow and wade being unable to shoot hurts really bad but we're invested in them. So having a good shooting, starting SF and a good shooting, bench PF or spacing problem tremendously or at least is a step in the right direction. Although Winslow and wade learning to hit 3s would be the easiest route...

As far as us being better with Whiteside on the bench, that's convoluted as ****. We have players that don't fit together, playing in a system that doesn't cater to all their strengths and all of that is rounded up with a lack of spacing with the starters and the bench. The team as a whole feels like it's built all wrong. The 3 highest paid players need to fit with one another and be effective. That's where it starts. THEN you make a system to put them in their most efficient and effective areas to score. THEN you surround them with defenders and shooters and a 6th man that can perfectly support them (Gerald Green or some other play maker as 6th man). This is why SAS have been so lethal every year.

We have a winner here.

[KingDavid]

The problem is that this reflects systemic choices, not player talents. I would say that we are choosing to play a system that does not take advantage of Whiteside, and this his success comes in spite of the system he is being used in. I think the team would be better playing a different way than it does. We saw last season even when we were healthy, Spo wasn't getting the best out of this roster, even without Whiteside. I have serious reservations that this coaching staff is a good match for the talent that we have here.

This is the mindset I'm leaning towards. But what you're asking for would require a whole new coach.

Whiteside used to have a nice quick jumpshot, but then got swole too fast over the summer and lost his touch. So now it's an ugly and sloooow ass shot. Someone posted various videos of his shot last year vs this year, it's night and day and much worse this year.

We would need the following to happen
Dragic
Wade that can shoot 3s
Ariza or Batum for Deng
Bosh playing like a max player consistently.
Whiteside gaining his quick shot back and improving from the FT line and passing more.

Bench
Tj being tj consistently.
Green becoming more consistent (his shot iq has improved tremendously though)
Winslow. Ugh. Climb that rookie wall and learn to shoot already.
Get rid of mcbob for Ryan Anderson.
Please play birdman.

Looks like mcbob and Deng should be on their way out for better shooting counterparts. Winslow and wade being unable to shoot hurts really bad but we're invested in them. So having a good shooting, starting SF and a good shooting, bench PF or spacing problem tremendously or at least is a step in the right direction. Although Winslow and wade learning to hit 3s would be the easiest route...

As far as us being better with Whiteside on the bench, that's convoluted as ****. We have players that don't fit together, playing in a system that doesn't cater to all their strengths and all of that is rounded up with a lack of spacing with the starters and the bench. The team as a whole feels like it's built all wrong. The 3 highest paid players need to fit with one another and be effective. That's where it starts. THEN you make a system to put them in their most efficient and effective areas to score. THEN you surround them with defenders and shooters and a 6th man that can perfectly support them (Gerald Green or some other play maker as 6th man). This is why SAS have been so lethal every year.

We have a winner here.

The fit is bad between our players. A new coach won't fix that. And getting rid of a 4 finals appearance coach doesn't instill confidence in other prospective coaches anyway. You NEED spacing for an offense to function. We don't have that.

Pat may have panicked to acquire a few stars and fit be damned.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 5

[EscapoTHB]

This is the mindset I'm leaning towards. But what you're asking for would require a whole new coach.

Whiteside used to have a nice quick jumpshot, but then got swole too fast over the summer and lost his touch. So now it's an ugly and sloooow ass shot. Someone posted various videos of his shot last year vs this year, it's night and day and much worse this year.

We would need the following to happen
Dragic
Wade that can shoot 3s
Ariza or Batum for Deng
Bosh playing like a max player consistently.
Whiteside gaining his quick shot back and improving from the FT line and passing more.

Bench
Tj being tj consistently.
Green becoming more consistent (his shot iq has improved tremendously though)
Winslow. Ugh. Climb that rookie wall and learn to shoot already.
Get rid of mcbob for Ryan Anderson.
Please play birdman.

Looks like mcbob and Deng should be on their way out for better shooting counterparts. Winslow and wade being unable to shoot hurts really bad but we're invested in them. So having a good shooting, starting SF and a good shooting, bench PF or spacing problem tremendously or at least is a step in the right direction. Although Winslow and wade learning to hit 3s would be the easiest route...

As far as us being better with Whiteside on the bench, that's convoluted as ****. We have players that don't fit together, playing in a system that doesn't cater to all their strengths and all of that is rounded up with a lack of spacing with the starters and the bench. The team as a whole feels like it's built all wrong. The 3 highest paid players need to fit with one another and be effective. That's where it starts. THEN you make a system to put them in their most efficient and effective areas to score. THEN you surround them with defenders and shooters and a 6th man that can perfectly support them (Gerald Green or some other play maker as 6th man). This is why SAS have been so lethal every year.

We have a winner here.

The fit is bad between our players. A new coach won't fix that. And getting rid of a 4 finals appearance coach doesn't instill confidence in other prospective coaches anyway. You NEED spacing for an offense to function. We don't have that.

Pat may have panicked to acquire a few stars and fit be damned.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 5

Shooting isn't the only way to get spacing on an offense. You just need a mechanism to shift the defense, whether that's running more, or better crisper ball movement. Also if we moved the ball better, the players we do have would shoot better, because they would be catching the ball in rhythm.