Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[Induveca]

I'll pass on Anthony. Knicks should have never traded for him in the first place. You don't blow up your team for a declining soon to be 32 year old.

He's much slower, and more of a ball stopper this year. Luckily Porzingis is making everyone so giddy no one is talking about it....

[TheSecretWeapon]

Knicks fan here. Everyone knows that you guys aren't going anywhere without a real first option anyways and KD prolly isn't even thinking about signing for Wizards at all, so you gotta trade for that star.

Melo for Beal + Porter + 2016 Washington First Rounder

This way you might be able to actually make it out of the second round for once and we'll get some pieces to build around Porz.

If and when the Wizards miss out on Durant this summer, (which I think is likely) I can see them turning their attention to Melo. But it doesn't make sense to do so now.

I think the trade you proposed is a little bit of an overpay based on Melo's age and injury history. If we were talking Nene (exp) + Beal + pick, I'd be more interested.

Carmelo will be 32 years old next year. The expensive decline portion of his career is coming.

[fishercob]

Knicks fan here. Everyone knows that you guys aren't going anywhere without a real first option anyways and KD prolly isn't even thinking about signing for Wizards at all, so you gotta trade for that star.

Melo for Beal + Porter + 2016 Washington First Rounder

This way you might be able to actually make it out of the second round for once and we'll get some pieces to build around Porz.

If and when the Wizards miss out on Durant this summer, (which I think is likely) I can see them turning their attention to Melo. But it doesn't make sense to do so now.

I think the trade you proposed is a little bit of an overpay based on Melo's age and injury history. If we were talking Nene (exp) + Beal + pick, I'd be more interested.

Carmelo will be 32 years old next year. The expensive decline portion of his career is coming.

To be clear, I'm not advocating that we target Carmelo. But I do expect Ernie to have him as a Plan B for DUrant.

And I think one could make the case for the merits of Carmelo for 2 yrs, $50M + an ETO over Beal on a five year max -- if for no other reason than you're out from under the deal sooner. Carmelo isn't that good, but then again, neither is Beal.

[Dat2U]

I would consider a deal for Melo but not for Beal. Porter or Oubre and a pick? Yes. I feel confident in saying Durant isn't coming here (I recently learned from an associate that we are not his preferred destination at this stage) so I see no reason to hold on to that dream.

[TGW]

I would consider a deal for Melo but not for Beal. Porter or Oubre and a pick? Yes. I feel confident in saying Durant isn't coming here (I recently learned from an associate that we are not his preferred destination at this stage) so I see no reason to hold on to that dream.

I wish Durant's agent would just come out and let the franchise know, but he'll use the Wizards to drive Durant's price up.

[TheSecretWeapon]

I would consider a deal for Melo but not for Beal. Porter or Oubre and a pick? Yes. I feel confident in saying Durant isn't coming here (I recently learned from an associate that we are not his preferred destination at this stage) so I see no reason to hold on to that dream.

I wish Durant's agent would just come out and let the franchise know, but he'll use the Wizards to drive Durant's price up.

Realistically, there's nothing Durant's agent can do to drive the price up. Durant will get the max wherever he goes. OKC can pay him a bit more because he's their free agent, but that's the only real difference. That and state income taxes.

[tontoz]

Knicks fan here. Everyone knows that you guys aren't going anywhere without a real first option anyways and KD prolly isn't even thinking about signing for Wizards at all, so you gotta trade for that star.

Melo for Beal + Porter + 2016 Washington First Rounder

This way you might be able to actually make it out of the second round for once and we'll get some pieces to build around Porz.

If and when the Wizards miss out on Durant this summer, (which I think is likely) I can see them turning their attention to Melo. But it doesn't make sense to do so now.

I think the trade you proposed is a little bit of an overpay based on Melo's age and injury history. If we were talking Nene (exp) + Beal + pick, I'd be more interested.

Carmelo will be 32 years old next year. The expensive decline portion of his career is coming.

In other words we should get ready to see him in a Wizards jersey.

[tontoz]

Knicks down 2 with 2 seconds left. Anthony decides to chuck up a contested 3 rather than hit KP wide open under the basket.

[fishercob]

I would consider a deal for Melo but not for Beal. Porter or Oubre and a pick? Yes. I feel confident in saying Durant isn't coming here (I recently learned from an associate that we are not his preferred destination at this stage) so I see no reason to hold on to that dream.

If we're making the dubious move of trading for Melo, I'd much rather give up Beal than Porter and Oubre. It all comes down to money and contract length. We don't know if Oubre is going to be any good -- but there's certainly reason to hope that he will be. Given how cheap he'll be for the next few years, I'd hate the give that up. And while Otto is just a season behind Beal, we'd likely only have one season of overlap with him and Melo on the books for huge money.

Here's the thing -- a Beal/Nene for Melo trade would get HUGE headlines in the NBA world and would generate tons of discussion and interest. But in truth, it wouldn't really move the needle for either team all that much because neither player is all that great.

Beal can be used to improve the Wizards one of three ways:

(1) He can get a lot better, consistently
(2) He can be traded for a better player (or package of players) due to his trade value significantly exceeding his on-court value
(3) He can sign his extension after the WIzards have used their cap room this summer

At the moment, I'm least excited about option #3.

[nate33]

Carmelo will be 32 years old next year. The expensive decline portion of his career is coming.

In other words we should get ready to see him in a Wizards jersey.

Nah. EG hasn't acted like that in the Leonsis era. Leonsis does indeed appear to be trying to build a title contender through youth. He'll add vets on short term deals to complement the youth, but the core players are young. Sacrificing youth and assets for a guy like Melo would be completely out of character.

The Gortat deal was the only move he made where he sacrificed a young asset (the pick) for an older player. But Gortat was just 29 at the time with low mileage and a good track record of health. He could be reasonably expected to avoid significant decline for 5 or more years.

As an aside, it's pretty amazing that Carmelo is only 31. It seems like he has been around forever. I would have sworn he was 33 or so. He might finish in the top 10 of all time in career points. He only needs 3 more star-caliber seasons plus 1 or 2 seasons in his twilight as a 3rd option type of guy.

[fishercob]

Beal, Blair and Humphries
for
Devin Booker, Alex Len, and Markieff Morris

Why for Phoenix: They get the biggest name in the deal and Beal could flourish playing with two good ballhandlers. They move on from Morris and speed up their impressive rebuild. They were a dark horse finalist for Aldridge last summer; this could help them land Durant or Horford.

Why for the Wiz: Devin Booker putting up really impressive numbers for a 19 year old rookie, though admittedly in not a lot of minutes. He's a baby, but he may turn out to be a better version of Beal. Len solidifies the backup center spot and with hard word and improvement should be able to take over the starting job from Gortat. Morris is nothing special, but he's inexpensive. I believe these 3 guys would all cost well less this summer than Beal's cap hold and Hump's option. Wiz get younger and deeper.

[tontoz]

Carmelo will be 32 years old next year. The expensive decline portion of his career is coming.

In other words we should get ready to see him in a Wizards jersey.

Nah. EG hasn't acted like that in the Leonsis era. Leonsis does indeed appear to be trying to build a title contender through youth. He'll add vets on short term deals to complement the youth, but the core players are young. Sacrificing youth and assets for a guy like Melo would be completely out of character.

The Gortat deal was the only move he made where he sacrificed a young asset (the pick) for an older player. But Gortat was just 29 at the time with low mileage and a good track record of health. He could be reasonably expected to avoid significant decline for 5 or more years.

As an aside, it's pretty amazing that Carmelo is only 31. It seems like he has been around forever. I would have sworn he was 33 or so. He might finish in the top 10 of all time in career points. He only needs 3 more star-caliber seasons plus 1 or 2 seasons in his twilight as a 3rd option type of guy.

EG will do whatever it takes to save his job. That is what he does best. The Okariza trade was a short term fix that took up a ton of capspace and had nothing to do with building a contender through youth. That capspace could have been used on a quality young player.

[nate33]

Beal, Blair and Humphries
for
Devin Booker, Alex Len, and Markieff Morris

Why for Phoenix: They get the biggest name in the deal and Beal could flourish playing with two good ballhandlers. They move on from Morris and speed up their impressive rebuild. They were a dark horse finalist for Aldridge last summer; this could help them land Durant or Horford.

Why for the Wiz: Devin Booker putting up really impressive numbers for a 19 year old rookie, though admittedly in not a lot of minutes. He's a baby, but he may turn out to be a better version of Beal. Len solidifies the backup center spot and with hard word and improvement should be able to take over the starting job from Gortat. Morris is nothing special, but he's inexpensive. I believe these 3 guys would all cost well less this summer than Beal's cap hold and Hump's option. Wiz get younger and deeper.

I'd do it. But with Knight and Bledsoe playing so well, would Phoenix really be interested in adding another high-priced SG who isn't really suited to play SF? (Of course, I ask this about a team who signed Isaiah Thomas to play with Dragic and Bledsoe, so who knows?)

[nate33]

In other words we should get ready to see him in a Wizards jersey.

Nah. EG hasn't acted like that in the Leonsis era. Leonsis does indeed appear to be trying to build a title contender through youth. He'll add vets on short term deals to complement the youth, but the core players are young. Sacrificing youth and assets for a guy like Melo would be completely out of character.

The Gortat deal was the only move he made where he sacrificed a young asset (the pick) for an older player. But Gortat was just 29 at the time with low mileage and a good track record of health. He could be reasonably expected to avoid significant decline for 5 or more years.

As an aside, it's pretty amazing that Carmelo is only 31. It seems like he has been around forever. I would have sworn he was 33 or so. He might finish in the top 10 of all time in career points. He only needs 3 more star-caliber seasons plus 1 or 2 seasons in his twilight as a 3rd option type of guy.

EG will do whatever it takes to save his job. That is what he does best. The Okariza trade was a short term fix that took up a ton of capspace and had nothing to do with building a contender through youth. That capspace could have been used on a quality young player.

Nah, the Okariza deal was using cap space and NOT young assets to fill out a team with enough professional basketball players that Wall and Beal could actually learn how to win. It was a defensible move to get us out of the "knucklehead era". I didn't love the move at the time because I thought Ariza wasn't very good, but then he proceeded to have a resurgence thanks to Wall setting him up for catch-and-shoot 3's. In hindsight, the move was fine. The opportunity cost was cap room in 2012 that could have been used on Ryan Anderson. That turned out be not such a great loss since Anderson had injury troubles and forgot how to play defense. Over the next 2 years, Ariza was a better player than Anderson.

[tontoz]

Nah. EG hasn't acted like that in the Leonsis era. Leonsis does indeed appear to be trying to build a title contender through youth. He'll add vets on short term deals to complement the youth, but the core players are young. Sacrificing youth and assets for a guy like Melo would be completely out of character.

The Gortat deal was the only move he made where he sacrificed a young asset (the pick) for an older player. But Gortat was just 29 at the time with low mileage and a good track record of health. He could be reasonably expected to avoid significant decline for 5 or more years.

As an aside, it's pretty amazing that Carmelo is only 31. It seems like he has been around forever. I would have sworn he was 33 or so. He might finish in the top 10 of all time in career points. He only needs 3 more star-caliber seasons plus 1 or 2 seasons in his twilight as a 3rd option type of guy.

EG will do whatever it takes to save his job. That is what he does best. The Okariza trade was a short term fix that took up a ton of capspace and had nothing to do with building a contender through youth. That capspace could have been used on a quality young player.

Nah, the Okariza deal was using cap space and NOT young assets to fill out a team with enough professional basketball players that Wall and Beal could actually learn how to win. It was a defensible move to get us out of the "knucklehead era". I didn't love the move at the time because I thought Ariza wasn't very good, but then he proceeded to have a resurgence thanks to Wall setting him up for catch-and-shoot 3's. In hindsight, the move was fine. The opportunity cost was cap room in 2012 that could have been used on Ryan Anderson. That turned out be not such a great loss since Anderson had injury troubles and forgot how to play defense. Over the next 2 years, Ariza was a better player than Anderson.

That is completely short sighted. Capspace could have been used on someone other than Anderson. Capspace allows a team to make trades that wouldn't otherwise be available. That is how the Cavs landed the pick that turned into Irving.

[nate33]

You are ignoring the other issue though. Yes, we had a need for more talent, but we also had Wall toiling for 2 full seasons on a laughably unprofessional team. It was not good for his development. There just wasn't any chance at the time that Ted would sanction a full-Philadelphia Sixers mindset and use that cap room for more bad players and more tanking in order to land a high pick.

But we are getting off track. The bottom line is that the Okariza deal is not the same thing as us trading Beal and picks for Melo. EG won't do that as long as Ted is in charge.

[tontoz]

You are ignoring the other issue though. Yes, we had a need for more talent, but we also had Wall toiling for 2 full seasons on a laughably unprofessional team. It was not good for his development. There just wasn't any chance at the time that Ted would sanction a full-Philadelphia Sixers mindset and use that cap room for more bad players and more tanking in order to land a high pick.

But we are getting off track. The bottom line is that the Okariza deal is not the same thing as us trading Beal and picks for Melo. EG won't do that as long as Ted is in charge.

Who said use the cap room for bad players? There are a bunch of trade possibilities that can be had when capspace is available. On a lesser scale just look at what EG did with Hinrich.

People talk about development but Beal hasn't improved at all and Wall's improvement can hardly be attributed to the Okariza deal. Plus he still struggles with shooting and turnovers. Here we are 5 years into a rebuild and still 2 games under .500.

I could definitely see EG trading Beal for Melo. If he strikes out on Durant I have no doubt he will go into panic mode and look to throw big money at someone, whether it makes sense or not.

[nate33]

I could see EG trying to trade cap room and filler for Melo, but I think it's highly unlikely that he would give up either Beal or Porter in the move.

I think the "EG is incompetent" meme gets thrown around here too often. EG, when given guiding principles from Ted, isn't awful. The overall plan is reasonably sound. EG isn't going to deviate it willy-nilly just for a short-term chance at a few extra wins.

EG's problem isn't that he's awful, it's that he's just not very good. He seems completely unable to find a "diamond in the rough" in the draft, ever. His high picks are mediocre starters. His mid-round picks are journeyman types. His low picks never make it. But the problem isn't his strategy, it's his execution. A guy like Ainge or Morey find value with every pick, and never falls in love with them so they're able to make prudent trades that help the team. Morey is always finding guys like Motiejunas, Jones, Capela, Chandler, etc. late in the draft. EG doesn't.

[tontoz]

I could see EG trying to trade cap room and filler for Melo, but I think it's highly unlikely that he would give up either Beal or Porter in the move.

I think the "EG is incompetent" meme gets thrown around here too often. EG, when given guiding principles from Ted, isn't awful. The overall plan is reasonably sound. EG isn't going to deviate it willy-nilly just for a short-term chance at a few extra wins.

EG's problem isn't that he's awful, it's that he's just not very good. He seems completely unable to find a "diamond in the rough" in the draft, ever. His high picks are mediocre starters. His mid-round picks are journeyman types. His low picks never make it. But the problem isn't his strategy, it's his execution. A guy like Ainge or Morey find value with every pick, and never falls in love with them so they're able to make prudent trades that help the team. Morey is always finding guys like Motiejunas, Jones, Capela, Chandler, etc. late in the draft. EG doesn't.

EG has had the job over a decade and never fielded a team that won over 46 games in a weak conference. I think we can safely say EG is incompetent.

The Webster signing is a perfect example. We already had Ariza (whom EG tried to resign the following year) and had just drafted Porter. We desperately needed bigs so EG spends the entire MLE on a wing with a long injury history.

[nate33]

I could see EG trying to trade cap room and filler for Melo, but I think it's highly unlikely that he would give up either Beal or Porter in the move.

I think the "EG is incompetent" meme gets thrown around here too often. EG, when given guiding principles from Ted, isn't awful. The overall plan is reasonably sound. EG isn't going to deviate it willy-nilly just for a short-term chance at a few extra wins.

EG's problem isn't that he's awful, it's that he's just not very good. He seems completely unable to find a "diamond in the rough" in the draft, ever. His high picks are mediocre starters. His mid-round picks are journeyman types. His low picks never make it. But the problem isn't his strategy, it's his execution. A guy like Ainge or Morey find value with every pick, and never falls in love with them so they're able to make prudent trades that help the team. Morey is always finding guys like Motiejunas, Jones, Capela, Chandler, etc. late in the draft. EG doesn't.

EG has had the job over a decade and never fielded a team that won over 46 games in a weak conference. I think we can safely say EG is incompetent.

Agreed. He's bad. I'm just saying his overall strategy under Leonsis isn't the problem. The blueprint is fine. Draft young talent - spend cap dollars augmenting that talent with veterans signed at a reasonable price. That's what EG has tried to do. He's just lousy at doing it.