Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[tontoz]

I could see EG trying to trade cap room and filler for Melo, but I think it's highly unlikely that he would give up either Beal or Porter in the move.

I think the "EG is incompetent" meme gets thrown around here too often. EG, when given guiding principles from Ted, isn't awful. The overall plan is reasonably sound. EG isn't going to deviate it willy-nilly just for a short-term chance at a few extra wins.

EG's problem isn't that he's awful, it's that he's just not very good. He seems completely unable to find a "diamond in the rough" in the draft, ever. His high picks are mediocre starters. His mid-round picks are journeyman types. His low picks never make it. But the problem isn't his strategy, it's his execution. A guy like Ainge or Morey find value with every pick, and never falls in love with them so they're able to make prudent trades that help the team. Morey is always finding guys like Motiejunas, Jones, Capela, Chandler, etc. late in the draft. EG doesn't.

EG has had the job over a decade and never fielded a team that won over 46 games in a weak conference. I think we can safely say EG is incompetent.

Agreed. He's bad. I'm just saying his overall strategy under Leonsis isn't the problem. The blueprint is fine. Draft young talent - spend cap dollars augmenting that talent with veterans signed at a reasonable price. That's what EG has tried to do. He's just lousy at doing it.

And how he will respond when he realizes that another rebuild has failed? He will try to save his job.

[nate33]

From Jay81 in the game thread:

I am completely cheering for the wizards to lose every game from here on out

1. I want to miss the playoffs and force a change in GM and coach
2. i want another lottery pick

but mainly for #1. Ted made a GM change with the caps and look what happened...yet he is completely still loyal to Ernie.

I dont see this team being better than an 8 seed in the playoffs

Is he right? Are we at this point yet? I'd say no, but what if we fall to about 5 games under .500?

It's an interesting dilemma since we are also entertaining the KD2DC plan which is presumably incongruous with a tanking strategy. What are our realistic chances at KD2DC if we are a losing team or a barely .500 team? If those chances fall to something near 0, is it best to go into tank mode?

[Ruzious]

From Jay81 in the game thread:

I am completely cheering for the wizards to lose every game from here on out

1. I want to miss the playoffs and force a change in GM and coach
2. i want another lottery pick

but mainly for #1. Ted made a GM change with the caps and look what happened...yet he is completely still loyal to Ernie.

I dont see this team being better than an 8 seed in the playoffs

Is he right? Are we at this point yet? I'd say no, but what if we fall to about 5 games under .500?

It's an interesting dilemma since we are also entertaining the KD2DC plan which is presumably incongruous with a tanking strategy. What are our realistic chances at KD2DC if we are a losing team or a barely .500 team? If those chances fall to something near 0, is it best to go into tank mode?

No, tanking isn't a realistic option - especially when you have John Wall on the team. That doesn't mean they have to bury their collective head in the sand - which is what they've basically done since last season ended. It's one thing to make sure you don't add salary to next year's cap; it's another to improve the team. They could have done both - not just the first - and while it's harder now to do the second, they still can. They can still do something like add a useful player in exchange for their 2016 pick. The possibility of trading Beal should have always been on the table and should continue to be. Unfortunately, see collective head buried in sand.

[nate33]

EG has had the job over a decade and never fielded a team that won over 46 games in a weak conference. I think we can safely say EG is incompetent.

Agreed. He's bad. I'm just saying his overall strategy under Leonsis isn't the problem. The blueprint is fine. Draft young talent - spend cap dollars augmenting that talent with veterans signed at a reasonable price. That's what EG has tried to do. He's just lousy at doing it.

And how he will respond when he realizes that another rebuild has failed? He will try to save his job.

I don't think Ted will let him.

[Dat2U]

I really want Cousins much moreso than Melo. But Melo is a very good if overrated player. Especially taking the ball out of his hands and having him play with a real PG who can get him cleaner looks instead of Melo trying to create something out of nothing. One of Melo's best stretches in NY was when Pablo Prigioni started with Melo and was getting the rock to him in his ideal spots. Melo & Dudley front court would really open up the floor for Wall as well so there's some dual benefit to having a scoring option like that at one of the F spots.

Maybe we could have both?

Beal, Gortat, Oubre & '16 1st for Cousins & McLemore
Porter, Nene & '18 1st for Melo & Amundson

F Dudley / Amundson / Gooden
F C.Anthony / A.Anderson
C Cousins / Humphries / Hollins / Blair
G McLemore / Neal / Temple
G Wall / Sessions

[DANNYLANDOVER]

Beal, Blair and Humphries
for
Devin Booker, Alex Len, and Markieff Morris

Why for Phoenix: They get the biggest name in the deal and Beal could flourish playing with two good ballhandlers. They move on from Morris and speed up their impressive rebuild. They were a dark horse finalist for Aldridge last summer; this could help them land Durant or Horford.

Why for the Wiz: Devin Booker putting up really impressive numbers for a 19 year old rookie, though admittedly in not a lot of minutes. He's a baby, but he may turn out to be a better version of Beal. Len solidifies the backup center spot and with hard word and improvement should be able to take over the starting job from Gortat. Morris is nothing special, but he's inexpensive. I believe these 3 guys would all cost well less this summer than Beal's cap hold and Hump's option. Wiz get younger and deeper.

Love that deal!

[queridiculo]

No, tanking isn't a realistic option - especially when you have John Wall on the team. That doesn't mean they have to bury their collective head in the sand - which is what they've basically done since last season ended. It's one thing to make sure you don't add salary to next year's cap; it's another to improve the team. They could have done both - not just the first - and while it's harder now to do the second, they still can. They can still do something like add a useful player in exchange for their 2016 pick. The possibility of trading Beal should have always been on the table and should continue to be. Unfortunately, see collective head buried in sand.

You have to be brutally honest look at the East and ask yourself, does this team have a realistic shot to make the playoffs?

Nearly a quarter of the season played, and I just don't see it.

They're not better than the currently 8th seeded Hawks, whom they trail by a full 5 wins, and they've been bludgeoned by damn near every team currently holding a playoff spot.

Sure, Washington could package their 2016 first rounder, but to what end?

There's not a combination of players that Washington can package with this pick that will net them a difference maker, so what's the point?

Outright tanking may not be the way to go, but I'd make just about everybody on the roster available not named Porter or Wall, and see if any opportunities come along that are worth pursuing.

[Ruzious]

No, tanking isn't a realistic option - especially when you have John Wall on the team. That doesn't mean they have to bury their collective head in the sand - which is what they've basically done since last season ended. It's one thing to make sure you don't add salary to next year's cap; it's another to improve the team. They could have done both - not just the first - and while it's harder now to do the second, they still can. They can still do something like add a useful player in exchange for their 2016 pick. The possibility of trading Beal should have always been on the table and should continue to be. Unfortunately, see collective head buried in sand.

You have to be brutally honest look at the East and ask yourself, does this team have a realistic shot to make the playoffs?

Nearly a quarter of the season played, and I just don't see it.

They're not better than the currently 8th seeded Hawks, whom they trail by a full 5 wins, and they've been bludgeoned by damn near every team currently holding a playoff spot.

Sure, Washington could package their 2016 first rounder, but to what end?

There's not a combination of players that Washington can package with this pick that will net them a difference maker, so what's the point?

Outright tanking may not be the way to go, but I'd make just about everybody on the roster available not named Porter or Wall, and see if any opportunities come along that are worth pursuing.

I think they should have already had everyone other than Wall available - especially Beal.

Trading their first round pick for a young vet can help this year and in the future AND in getting Durant. Every improvement can make a difference. And they do have a solid shot at the playoffs. It's way too early to write that off, imo. You're overrating the competition.

[Dark Faze]

I mean almost everybody on the roster is some kind of expiring or almost worthless in terms of value. The only realistic pieces you can move are Porter, Hump, and Brad...and you just can't move Brad unless you get an all-star in return. Its just a fact.

It's why I said Porter and Hump, and a protected future first for Faried is one of the best plausible trades that I see. He's an energetic freak athlete with a career PER of 19--and you're locked into a value contract for several years, one that would be easy to move. Doesn't hurt your cap situation--and the kid has a great reputation as a good player in the league.

People use ORTG and advanced stats to kill Beal all day on this forum, yet a guy who's played next to no center and a ton of moving, bad parts around him his entire career averages a career ORTG of 114 and an average career TS of 57 and its a bad idea because he doesn't fit a particular sort of vision in regards to playstyle?

[Ruzious]

I mean almost everybody on the roster is some kind of expiring or almost worthless in terms of value. The only realistic pieces you can move are Porter, Hump, and Brad...and you just can't move Brad unless you get an all-star in return. Its just a fact.

It's why I said Porter and Hump, and a protected future first for Faried is one of the best plausible trades that I see. He's an energetic freak athlete with a career PER of 19--and you're locked into a value contract for several years, one that would be easy to move. Doesn't hurt your cap situation--and the kid has a great reputation as a good player in the league.

People use ORTG and advanced stats to kill Beal all day on this forum, yet a guy who's played next to no center and a ton of moving, bad parts around him his entire career averages a career ORTG of 114 and an average career TS of 57 and its a bad idea because he doesn't fit a particular sort of vision in regards to playstyle?

You gotta get a better player than Faried AND a better fit than Faried if you're trading all that for him. And that trade would cut into their cap next year. Doesn't Faried have basically the same contract that Gortat does? I love his rebounding and energy, but remember that Faried isn't just a poor jump shooter, he's also a poor defender. The Wiz could cut Hump in the offseason and have enough money to add Durant and a better player than Faried. And they'd still have Porter and the pick.

[nate33]

No, tanking isn't a realistic option - especially when you have John Wall on the team. That doesn't mean they have to bury their collective head in the sand - which is what they've basically done since last season ended. It's one thing to make sure you don't add salary to next year's cap; it's another to improve the team. They could have done both - not just the first - and while it's harder now to do the second, they still can. They can still do something like add a useful player in exchange for their 2016 pick. The possibility of trading Beal should have always been on the table and should continue to be. Unfortunately, see collective head buried in sand.

You have to be brutally honest look at the East and ask yourself, does this team have a realistic shot to make the playoffs?

Nearly a quarter of the season played, and I just don't see it.

I disagree. The Wizards are 3 games out of 4th place. They've played pretty well since that disastrous 3-game stretch of blowouts a few weeks back, especially since they've been so shorthanded. If Wall continues to play well, I think the playoffs are still likely.

[Dark Faze]

You gotta get a better player than Faried AND a better fit than Faried if you're trading all that for him. And that trade would cut into their cap next year. Doesn't Faried have basically the same contract that Gortat does? I love his rebounding and energy, but remember that Faried isn't just a poor jump shooter, he's also a poor defender. The Wiz could cut Hump in the offseason and have enough money to add Durant and a better player than Faried. And they'd still have Porter and the pick.

Who though? If there was another PF we could fit right in next to Durant off free agency next year, we'd all be just relaxing and waiting for this season to end. That's not the case. Whiteside, Sullinger, Millsap, Horford, whoever, there's not a one of them that isn't going to be retained by their current team.

I really think we've only got until the all-star break to get into the playoff picture--by that point if things haven't changed, Nene will be back at PF. The lack of a three ball from Otto right now is a huge issue. I don't think it will take much to see him replaced at the 3 by Dudley if Nene gets his starting spot back.

When you think back to what Paul and Ariza provided in terms of their three balls before they left--Porter isn't measuring up.

[LyricalRico]

I really want Cousins much moreso than Melo. But Melo is a very good if overrated player. Especially taking the ball out of his hands and having him play with a real PG who can get him cleaner looks instead of Melo trying to create something out of nothing. One of Melo's best stretches in NY was when Pablo Prigioni started with Melo and was getting the rock to him in his ideal spots. Melo & Dudley front court would really open up the floor for Wall as well so there's some dual benefit to having a scoring option like that at one of the F spots.

Maybe we could have both?

Beal, Gortat, Oubre & '16 1st for Cousins & McLemore
Porter, Nene & '18 1st for Melo & Amundson

F Dudley / Amundson / Gooden
F C.Anthony / A.Anderson
C Cousins / Humphries / Hollins / Blair
G McLemore / Neal / Temple
G Wall / Sessions

Man, as much as I'm against adding Cousins, that's a very interesting swing-for-the-fences scenario.

It even works if it happens over the summer. Acquiring Melo with mostly cap space is my Plan B if we lose out on Durant, and a Gortat+Beal+filler sign and trade for Cousins would also still be in play (and perhaps more likely of Sacto doesn't improve).

[Ruzious]

You gotta get a better player than Faried AND a better fit than Faried if you're trading all that for him. And that trade would cut into their cap next year. Doesn't Faried have basically the same contract that Gortat does? I love his rebounding and energy, but remember that Faried isn't just a poor jump shooter, he's also a poor defender. The Wiz could cut Hump in the offseason and have enough money to add Durant and a better player than Faried. And they'd still have Porter and the pick.

Who though? If there was another PF we could fit right in next to Durant off free agency next year, we'd all be just relaxing and waiting for this season to end. That's not the case. Whiteside, Sullinger, Millsap, Horford, whoever, there's not a one of them that isn't going to be retained by their current team.

I really think we've only got until the all-star break to get into the playoff picture--by that point if things haven't changed, Nene will be back at PF. The lack of a three ball from Otto right now is a huge issue. I don't think it will take much to see him replaced at the 3 by Dudley if Nene gets his starting spot back.

When you think back to what Paul and Ariza provided in terms of their three balls before they left--Porter isn't measuring up.

I'd try to sign Terrence Jones in the offseason and trade for Cody Zeller this season. And I expect there will be other options. A player like Marvin Williams could be very useful for the Wiz. If I can get Cousins and McLemore for Beal, Gortat, and the 2016 pick, I do it.

[Ruzious]

I really want Cousins much moreso than Melo. But Melo is a very good if overrated player. Especially taking the ball out of his hands and having him play with a real PG who can get him cleaner looks instead of Melo trying to create something out of nothing. One of Melo's best stretches in NY was when Pablo Prigioni started with Melo and was getting the rock to him in his ideal spots. Melo & Dudley front court would really open up the floor for Wall as well so there's some dual benefit to having a scoring option like that at one of the F spots.

Maybe we could have both?

Beal, Gortat, Oubre & '16 1st for Cousins & McLemore
Porter, Nene & '18 1st for Melo & Amundson

F Dudley / Amundson / Gooden
F C.Anthony / A.Anderson
C Cousins / Humphries / Hollins / Blair
G McLemore / Neal / Temple
G Wall / Sessions

Man, as much as I'm against adding Cousins, that's a very interesting swing-for-the-fences scenario.

It even works if it happens over the summer. Acquiring Melo with mostly cap space is my Plan B if we lose out on Durant, and a Gortat+Beal+filler sign and trade for Cousins would also still be in play (and perhaps more likely of Sacto doesn't improve).

The Cousins trade the same as I've suggested several times except I didn't include Oubre. I'm ok with it if we really need to include Oubre to make it happen, but obviously I'd rather not include him.

Re the Melo trade, I gotta ask why NY would consider it. Porter's not good enough to be the centerpiece of a Melo trade, imo. Besides, Melo's probably a good fit there if Phil can add talent to their roster.

[J-Ves]

At what point do we decide this rebuild is unsalvageable and look to trade our current core? I love Wall, but it's better to trade him while his value is at its peak than wait and risk injury. If we end the year missing the playoffs and we get word we have no chance adding a real difference maker in FA, I would look to restart the rebuild with a new GM of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Illmatic12]

At what point do we decide this rebuild is unsalvageable and look to trade our current core? I love Wall, but it's better to trade him while his value is at its peak than wait and risk injury. If we end the year missing the playoffs and we get word we have no chance adding a real difference maker in FA, I would look to restart the rebuild with a new GM of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wall is the guy you'd want to keep in a rebuild, under any circumstances.

He a 25yo near-superstar on a great value longterm contract, and continues to get better every year. You realize the Wiz can clean house with a new GM/coach WITHOUT rebuilding, right? Keep the team's core, replace the front office. surround the core with better talent and drafting.

[dangermouse]

People talking about blow-up rebuilds already?

[payitforward]

What about Rakeem Christmas. Any way we could pry him away from the Pacers?

?? Why?

He's about to turn 25, he was not a good college player, and he certainly isn't excelling in the D League.

John Henson is in his 4th year in the league. Rakeem Christmas is older than John Henson. Not good and no upside at all.

[payitforward]

Beal, Blair and Humphries
for
Devin Booker, Alex Len, and Markieff Morris

Why for Phoenix: They get the biggest name in the deal and Beal could flourish playing with two good ballhandlers. They move on from Morris and speed up their impressive rebuild. They were a dark horse finalist for Aldridge last summer; this could help them land Durant or Horford.

Why for the Wiz: Devin Booker putting up really impressive numbers for a 19 year old rookie, though admittedly in not a lot of minutes. He's a baby, but he may turn out to be a better version of Beal. Len solidifies the backup center spot and with hard word and improvement should be able to take over the starting job from Gortat. Morris is nothing special, but he's inexpensive. I believe these 3 guys would all cost well less this summer than Beal's cap hold and Hump's option. Wiz get younger and deeper.

Of course! But there is *no way* Phoenix would make this trade. Booker looks to have an enormous upside -- might already be better than Beal.