Trading Yasiel Puig

Ranma · Post #1 » by **Ranma** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:43 am

TMZ may have sensationalized the situation in the headline of their initial report, but the police report after-the-fact with both involved parties more concerned with sweeping the matter under the rug than telling the truth doesn't change the fact that Puig is constantly putting himself in these types of situations. There's a difference between having patience for maturation to take hold and then there's enabling such behavior with continued dismissals of misbehavior.

It's long past time that this kid grow up and he just hasn't made enough of an effort to do so. Yeah, he's gotten better in putting in more work, but his teammates and previous manager have all tired of his act so even they think his progress is slower than acceptable. The excuse of the poor kid not knowing how to handle instant fame and riches just doesn't fly any more. He's playing professional baseball and should stop acting like a bush-league a-hole.

At this point, I'm less concerned about getting value in a return on a trade of him than I am with just getting rid of his presence altogether. We're at the point where his subtraction would be an addition by itself. It's should be an honor for him to put on that Dodgers uniform and he hasn't shown that he considers it as such. Even while stating his preference to stay with the team, he's stated this past season that he'd be fine with playing anywhere else. Dude no longer deserves the privilege. Between Dee Gordon and Yasiel Puig, Friedman traded the wrong young stud.

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Ranma · Post #2 » by **Ranma** » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:41 pm

Given Puig's volatility and low point in trade value, I'm not sure what his valuation is so the proposals below will vary greatly. I'm just curious what we could get in return for him at this point. Personally, I'd be fine with getting a package of prospects for him but my interest in players varies from team to team. Here are a few teams and players of interest.

Tampa Bay Rays

3B Evan Longoria
LHP Jake McGee
RHP Jake Odorizzi
RHP Brad Boxberger
OF Garrett Whitley

It's more wishful thinking than anything else since I doubt Friedman would want to saddle his former colleagues with a headcase, but if TB is interested, the dream scenario would be Longoria, McGee, and Whitley for Puig and Alex Wood. Longoria is unlikely to be available so McGee, Whitley, and Odorizzi for Puig or McGee, Odorizzi, and Boxberger for Puig might be acceptable.

Miami Marlins

RHP Jose Fernandez
OF Giancarlo Stanton
2B Dee Gordon
RHP Tyler Kolek
3B Brian Anderson

More wishful thinking since I doubt the Marlins are going to blow things up even with the dysfunctional leadership in place. Still, if they want to tap into the Cuban marketing appeal of Puig, maybe something can be worked out. If Fernandez is available, then he and Anderson as a throw-in for Puig plus filler is something I would pursue. How about Stanton and Gordon for Puig, Wood, and filler? Or Gordon and former 2014 2nd overall pick Kolek for Puig and filler? There's a lot of possibilities with Miami but only if it wants to change course from its current direction.

Cleveland Indians

RHP Corey Kluber
RHP Carlos Carrasco
RHP Luis Salazar
OF Clint Frazier
OF Bradley Zimmer
LHP Brady Aiken
RHP Triston McKenzie
C Francisco Mejia
SS Luke Wakamatsu

The Indians offer the most intrigue and could be a realistic trade partner if they have interest in Puig, but there've been conflicting reports on whether they'd be interested in him at all. Not only do the Indians have starting pitching available, but they possess both high-end and intriguing solid prospects in their farm system. Too many possibilities to list out, so there is plenty to choose from in mix and matching components for an appealing trade package.

New York Mets

RHP Jacob deGrom
RHP Noah Syndergaard
RHP Matt Harvey
RHP Zach Wheeler
LHP Steven Matz
SS Amed Rosario
1B Dominic Smith
C Ali Sanchez

The Mets may want a replacement for losing Yoenis Cespedes to free agency, but it's doubtful that they'll part with deGrom, Syndergaard, or even Harvey, but they have plenty of intriguing prospects including some not listed here. Maybe a Wheeler-Rosario-and-Sanchez-for-Puig deal could work for both sides.

New York Yankees

RHP Luis Severino
OF Aaron Judge
SS Jorge Mateo
2B Robert Refsnyder
C Gary Sanchez
SS Kyle Holder
RHP Drew Finley

A deal with the Yankees would be predicated on getting a package of young players back. The Bronx seems to have a lot of intriguing prospects in its developmental pipeline, but its prospects tend to be over-hyped given the nature of the media market. Even still, the Yankees seem to have the most appealing group of prospects so it'd be pretty hard to turn down an offer of Judge, Mateo, and Sanchez for Puig.

Quake Griffin · Post #3 » by **Quake Griffin** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:46 am

I want him traded.

I like Carrasco. He has really good stuff and his peripherals all say he's a go. Plus his contract is team friendly.
The Indians would be the A side of the deal so I'd put together a package for them. Puig + i dunno, something not crazy.

I'm the ultimate Clipper fan. I pull for the underdog. I pull for then hated….and I'm a firm believer in a person being whoever they are in their private life and outwardly as long as it doesn't compromise their work ethic. The bat flips didn't bother me. The one handed catches never bothered me because I've never seen him drop one. Then I read his story about how he got here from Cuba and I developed an even softer spot for Puig.

Given all that, I can still be VERY cut throat and take every bit of emotion out of a decision when I get there. Showing up late for stuff did bother me. Showing up to ST out of shape this year did bother me. Let me guess, it's a random accident your hammies couldn't make it through the year? The lack of development in his swing in year 3 does bother me. Not being a quality base runner in year 3 does bother me.

Reality is, the Dodgers need more professionalism and a much more cohesive unit in the locker room and Puig doesn't provide that. Any excuse I make for why he is the way he is doesn't provide that. You know what can provide that? Dealing him.

I fully believe Puig has the tools and is capable of becoming a great major league talent.
which is why I'm not concerned about selling him low. I believe some other GM sees that and will give us the right price for him.
If we ever were to "sell high" anyway…that would mean he's killing it for us and we'd be more reluctant to deal him than ever.

Ranma · Post #4 » by **Ranma** » Wed Dec 2, 2015 6:03 am

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kud_VO7Xtlk&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Mark Saxon, ESPN.com (12/1/15)

Dave Roberts. the new Dodgers manager, struck the perfect chords when he was asked about Puig, the lone remaining problem child on a team that Friedman and his group have worked hard to forge into a more professional, more cohesive unit. Toward the end of Don Mattingly's stay as manager, according to clubhouse sources, he and Puig didn’t talk at all. Puig told acquaintances he didn't care what Mattingly thought about him.

Roberts said he has never exchanged a word with Puig in the past but will keep an open mind when dealing with him. Roberts already has reached out to him, but Puig was traveling outside the country. He said he hopes to have a face-to-face conversation with Puig in January, when Puig swings through Los Angeles.
...

"In life, I think there are certain rules that apply to everybody, there are certain non-negotiables, but I think certain people have earned certain responsibilities and certain rights," he said.

Roberts elaborated by saying Clayton Kershaw, a three-time Cy Young winner, had earned certain rights that Joc Pederson, a rookie in 2015, had not: to be able to drive on his own to road games rather than take the team bus, for example, or to be able to fly on his own and enjoy an extra day at home with his family before a road trip.
...

Roberts chose an extreme example, but what he was trying to say is that every player is different, because every person is different. Being stern with one player might work well. Being stern with another player might cause a fatal disconnect. For now, we can only presume that one of the reasons Friedman hired Roberts is that he is adept at connecting with everyone in his clubhouse, even the most problematic cases.

Connecting with Yasiel Puig Could Be Task No. 1 for Dave Roberts

Mark Saxon, ESPN.com (12/1/15)

Gonzalez predicted Roberts will have a good rapport with his new right fielder.

"From my experience, Puig responds well to genuine people, when he understands there's no agenda and people just really care for him," Gonzalez said.

Dodgers' Dave Roberts Acknowledges Magnitude of Hire, Says 'It's Important'

Neddy · Post #5 » by **Neddy** » Wed Dec 2, 2015 6:17 am

I like the prospect of trading Yasiel for a quality starting pitcher too, but I LOVE what Dave Roberts said about Puig. I would much rather prefer that we don't sell him low. all these personal relation garbage can be fixed if we win it all. Managed by Frank Chance who also manned the first base, the Cubs won back to back World Series with Joe Tinker and Johnny Evers as the double play combo who hated each other and did not speak to each other for 2 years after a dispute over a cab fare. yeah it was a different era where Johnny Evers led the team with whopping 2 HRs in 1907 and Joe TInker with 6 HRs in 1908, but if you consider that this was the dead ball era, having your middle of the infield, a double play combo, to despise each other to a point where they refuse to even speak to one another for two whole years and yet they won back to back WS, you have to at least accept that chemistry of the teammates is not be all, end all.

Ranma · Post #6 » by **Ranma** » Wed Dec 2, 2015 6:46 am

That's a great anecdote, Neddy. Thanks for that. I know there's prominent sentiment that thinks that chemistry is overrated, but I very much prefer a team that gets a long and is pulling in the same direction. It's why I started rooting for the Clippers because I saw a TV episode from a show I believe was called "The Other Side of Victory", which profiled the young Clippers team of Danny Manning, Charles Smith, and Gary Grant as a family. I'm big on camaraderie. It just makes it more fun to root for such a team.

Thankfully, Dave Roberts seems to be about that in preaching "everyone care for one another" in his team-first approach. I'm open to keeping Puig just to see what this "Doc" (Roberts' nickname based on his "DR" initials) can do to possibly get through to him and unlock his enormous potential, but it's on a short leash. If Puig is still stubbornly reluctant to get onboard, then we would have to deal him at that point.

Neddy · Post #7 » by **Neddy** » Wed Dec 2, 2015 8:09 am

Ranma wrote:That's a great anecdote, Neddy. Thanks for that. I know there's prominent sentiment that thinks that chemistry is overrated, but I very much prefer a team that gets a long and is pulling in the same direction. It's why I started rooting for the Clippers because I saw a TV episode from a show I believe was called "The Other Side of Victory", which profiled the young Clippers team of Danny Manning, Charles Smith, and Gary Grant as a family. I'm big on camaraderie. It just makes it more fun to root for such a team.

Thankfully, Dave Roberts seems to be about that in preaching "everyone care for one another" in his team-first approach. I'm open to keeping Puig just to see what this "Doc" (Roberts' nickname based on his "DR" initials) can do to possibly get through to him and unlock his enormous potential, but it's on a short leash. If Puig is still stubbornly reluctant to get onboard, then we would have to deal him at that point.

hey good observation of finding "doc" in Dave's initials. glad you told me the explanation before i would get lost in deep abyss of deciphering the analogy.

and don't get me wrong, camaraderie is great and can elevate an above average team to an elite status, but as you have mentioned about that Manning-Smith-Grant team of our beloved clippers, you can't make an average/ below average team to be a champion or anywhere near it. talent above all, matters the most and Puig has plenty of it. I also want to remind everyone what Kirk Gibson wasn't exactly an easy teammate to get along with. aside from threatening to quit the dodgers in spring training after his trade, he also pushed Guerrero out just prior to the 88 playoff run.

and one more, I don't want anyone to think of me as Puig's advocate, I am simply an advocate of selling high. if Puig is posting 300/400/500 line by all stars with 15 HRs already and the Mets offer any one of their top 3 starters, I am sold. we still have Joc, Schebler in the wing, and the glut of Ethier/Crawford/SVS to solve in the outfield and that doesn't account for Alex Guerrero. I would love to sport a rotation of Kershaw-Greinke-Ryu-Harvey-Anderson/Wood/McCarthy/Wieland with Urias/De Leon/Anderson waiting.

Quake Griffin · Post #8 » by **Quake Griffin** » Wed Dec 2, 2015 8:15 am

I'm with Neddy in a way. Pablo Sandoval is on record saying he didn't care for many in the Giants' locker room when he got to Boston.
http://nypost.com/2015/03/09/pablo-sandoval-didnt-like-any-giants-has-lot-of-red-sox-friends/

But if you click that and read, he says Bochy was like his dad. So I still believe he was able to bring a level of professionalism to the job that allowed the team to pull in one direction even though he didn't like most of those guys.

70s As come to mind as well.

I believe in chemistry and being a cohesive unit. I just don't think it has anything to do with being best buddies.

P.S.
Interesting quote by A-Gon. If I didn't trust A-Gon to be such a stand up guy, I would take that as a backhanded shot at Mattingly….but I don't think he's like that.

Ranma · Post #9 » by **Ranma** » Wed Dec 2, 2015 8:37 am

Neddy wrote:hey good observation of finding "doc" in Dave's initials. glad you told me the explanation before i would get lost in deep abyss of deciphering the analogy.

and don't get me wrong, camaraderie is great and can elevate an above average team to an elite status, but as you have mentioned about that Manning-Smith-Grant team of our beloved clippers, you can't make an average/ below average team to be a champion or anywhere near it. talent above all, matters the most and Puig has plenty of it. I also want to remind everyone what Kirk Gibson wasn't exactly an easy teammate to get along with. aside from threatening to quit the dodgers in spring training after his trade, he also pushed Guerrero out just prior to the 88 playoff run.

and one more, I don't want anyone to think of me as Puig's advocate, I am simply an advocate of selling high. if Puig is posting 300/400/500 line by all stars with 15 HRs already and the Mets offer any one of their top 3 starters, I am sold. we still have Joc, Schebler in the wing, and the glut of Ethier/Crawford/SVS to solve in the outfield and that doesn't account for Alex Guerrero. I would love to sport a rotation of Kershaw-Greinke-Ryu-Harvey-Anderson/Wood/McCarthy/Wieland with Urias/De Leon/Anderson waiting.

I actually think "Doc" is Dave Roberts' nickname. I didn't come up with it because I wouldn't insult the man like that. 8-)

I'd have gone with "Dr. Grit" or something. I read somewhere that that is/was what his teammates in Boston and possibly San Diego called him.

Great point about Kirk Gibson, but he--like Chase Utley--had a demeanor that was trying to light a fire under the team for its benefit, whereas Puig's rebellious attitude is a drag on the team.

I agree with you about selling low, but like Jamal Crawford, there is a danger with holding onto him for too long if his presence is actually a negative. I'm not sure if we're there yet, but let's just say I'm more receptive to offers at this point.

Ranma · Post #10 » by **Ranma** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:19 am

idnt-h8urteam via DodgersDigest.com comments

Dodger FO is not really discussing Puig unless the return is huge. No one is willing to pay what the Dodger value him for

LiveFyre Profile Activity Stream

Quake Griffin · Post #11 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:48 pm

So some Ex-Dodger just called Yasiel Puig the worst person he's ever seen in this game. EVER!

**** great.
Looks like we're stuck with him for better or for worse.

Ranma · Post #12 » by **Ranma** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:23 pm

Scott Miller, BleacherReport.com (12/10/15)

Tucked somewhere among the salacious stories of Greinke tossing Puig's suitcase off the bus and onto a street in Chicago, ace Clayton Kershaw allegedly advising the Dodgers front office this winter to dump the outfielder and third baseman Justin Turner almost getting into a fight with Puig last spring looms one of the biggest questions facing the Dodgers for 2016:

Is the relationship between Puig and his teammates inside the Dodgers' clubhouse irreparably broken?

"I think for the most part, no," Dodgers All-Star first baseman Adrian Gonzalez told Bleacher Report during a telephone conversation this week. "I'm still a guy who believes in Yasiel's heart and where he wants to go and where he wants to be.

"When I talk to him heart to heart, he explains to me that he wants to be the best he can be. Growing up, sometimes it takes awhile to break bad habits."

Others believe it is time the Dodgers break their bad habit of employing Puig.

"He is the worst person I've ever seen in this game," one ex-Dodger who believes Puig is beyond redemption said flatly. "Ever."

Is There Anybody Left in Los Angeles Whom Yasiel Puig Hasn't Alienated?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/molly_knight/status/675011699162787841[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/molly_knight/status/675015599659941889[/tweet]

Quake Griffin · Post #13 » by **Quake Griffin** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:50 pm

I didn't know him and Turner had a run in.
Trying to think about potential ex-Dodgers who could have made that comment.

Greinke?
Dee Gordon?
Dan Haren?
Skip Schumaker?
Nick Punto?
Mark Ellis?
Hanley?
Juan Uribe?
Drew Butera?
Matt Kemp?
Fed Ex?

Given that the rumors have it that Donnie seemingly didn't want to manage this team, carry the expectations etc. etc.
It's starting to make me wonder what this FO said to him on the Yasiel Puig issue.
I can easily see a scenario where they either still believe in Puig or tell Donnie that they're not selling low so he still has to deal with him until they can figure out a solution and Donnie is like, "yeah….no. Peace."

Either way…I'm completely against the idea of not selling him because we're selling low. I'd rather have the clubhouse be a cohesive unit and just an overall better baseball player even they're not as talented as Puig next year and moving forward than wait to get a quality return for Puig. You're basically hoping for this kid to repair his reputation before we trade him. Well, lmao. That's not gonna happen any time before the 2016 season is over.

Ranma · Post #14 » by **Ranma** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:33 pm

It's well known that Matt Kemp and Puig didn't get along, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was the one quoted with such damning criticism. Along with Mattingly, McGwire was quite openly annoyed with him as well. I share the same sentiments in wanting to trade Puig over having him drag the team in an attempt to recoup his trade value, but at this point, I'm okay with giving Dave Roberts a go at trying to reach him.

A-Gon says that Yasiel is supposedly working out diligently in a gym in South Florida, but we'll see how fit he shows up in Spring Training. I'm tired of his excuses and feigning injury. We can't wait around to see if and when he'll ever mature. He's down to his last chance at this point IMO. We need to see some sort of further commitment on his part, otherwise it's time to dump the loser.

For now, we might as well see this through instead of selling low on him unless there is an attractive offer on the table for him.

Neddy · Post #15 » by **Neddy** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:04 am

I have come to conclude that ex Dodger is non other than Donny Potato. so I wouldn't put much merit to that statement about Puig being the worst human being in baseball. IF baseball can not only endure but make HOFers out of Ty Cobb, Pete Rose, and Berry Bonds, it surely can have a room for Puig.

anywho, I am still on the side of keeping Puig. his potential is just too great at the price he comes at. if he is such a great distraction, we can suspend him without pay and he can take it up with the union, but it will at least get him out of the clubhouse for a short span while we get our "chemistry" worked out. if we are already talking about selling him low now, we can wait until we must sell him next to nothing. I don't see much difference in terms of the net value in talents gained versus lost in both scenarios. a little in return to have steep overall negative in the trade versus no value in return to have slightly more steep negative overall value. I say meh. let's see if he can mesh together a +5 or better WAR. he averaged better than 5 WAR for the first two seasons, why not at least get back to that level if given better care under his new manager? what if he even surprises us all and pull a Bryce Harper on us and suddenly get his **** together in a year or two and become a 7 to 9 range WAR player? would we really give a rats ass that Yasiel is an **** by then?

ratedrdb · Post #16 » by **ratedrdb** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:36 pm

puig--cleve
carrasco--mia
urias...Pederson...holmes..van slyke...mia
Fernandez la

ratedrdb · Post #17 » by **ratedrdb** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:37 pm

add Jensen and I more top prospect and get stanton

ratedrdb · Post #18 » by **ratedrdb** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:41 pm

OUT-puig--urias--holmes--Pederson--van slyke--Jensen
IN---Fernandez--Stanton

Neddy · Post #19 » by **Neddy** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:25 am

ratedrdb wrote:add Jensen and I more top prospect and get stanton

why would Miami pay more for Jensen for his one year of service over Stanton?

I don't like your proposal but also don't think it is unrealistic in today's overpaying market but knowing what Jensen makes and his FA status after next year, it makes no sense for them to want him or for us to give up on him.

ratedrdb · Post #20 » by **ratedrdb** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:40 pm

They want prospects and players that make them better. Then we get chapman

Should the Dodgers trade Yasiel Puig this off-season? (Changing Vote Enabled)