Marcus Morris has been incredible

[YogurtProducer]

+/- has always been how the team performs when you are on the court. There is a different stat which is on court / off court differential which is what you're referring to . http://www.sportingcharts.com/nba/stats/individual-player-plus-minus-statistics/2015/

I don't agree that it makes any sense to call Oncourt "+/-". As I've already pointed out, +/- is defined differently in various spots. But regardless, here are the On/Off leaders for those who are interested-
Marcus Morris 28.9
Curry------------ 26.8
Green----------- 24.3
Caldwell-Pope 23.4
James----------- 23.3
R Jackson------ 21.3
Drummond----- 20.8...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this just show that the DET bench is really really bad? The whole team is only +1.8 on the season, and Morris plays 38 mpg. For those 10 mpg he's not playing, the unti playing must be historically wretched to make Morris' on/off look that good.

Yeah you are probably right considering there is 4 DET players in there. GSW has 2 as well but their starters and historically good and their bench is meh. DET starters are just good and their bench is like baaaaad

[laika]

+/- has always been how the team performs when you are on the court. There is a different stat which is on court / off court differential which is what you're referring to . http://www.sportingcharts.com/nba/stats/individual-player-plus-minus-statistics/2015/

I don't agree that it makes any sense to call Oncourt "+/-". As I've already pointed out, +/- is defined differently in various spots. But regardless, here are the On/Off leaders for those who are interested-
Marcus Morris 28.9
Curry------------ 26.8
Green----------- 24.3
Caldwell-Pope 23.4
James----------- 23.3
R Jackson------ 21.3
Drummond----- 20.8...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this just show that the DET bench is really really bad? The whole team is only +1.8 on the season, and Morris plays 38 mpg. For those 10 mpg he's not playing, the unti playing must be historically wretched to make Morris' on/off look that good.

Yea. I'm not saying that Morris is close to the best player in the league but he is playing quite well.

There are two ways that you can get really high +/- numbers without being especially good. If your teammates carry you and if your bench is horrible. Both those effects are showing up with Detroit, who has 4 of the top 7 players in +/-. Neither of those things are working for Curry though. His bench is mediocre, but most of his rating is from a historically great Oncourt number. Green is the only Warrior even close to Curry in +/- but that number is deceptive because almost all of Green's minutes have been with Curry.
When you adjust for those two factors, James and Westbrook are the only two players that are even close to Curry. But James and Westbrook can be expected to fall further behind Curry as their teams get healthier.

[DetroitPistons]

And even if he becomes an allstar for years to come I am just glad he is off the Suns. I don't think very many Suns fans miss him.
Now we just have to rid ourselves of Markieff which seems to be happening soon anyways.

Send him to DET please so SVG can make him twice the player he was for you guys

[zeebneeb]

I don't agree that it makes any sense to call Oncourt "+/-". As I've already pointed out, +/- is defined differently in various spots. But regardless, here are the On/Off leaders for those who are interested-
Marcus Morris 28.9
Curry------------ 26.8
Green----------- 24.3
Caldwell-Pope 23.4
James----------- 23.3
R Jackson------ 21.3
Drummond----- 20.8...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this just show that the DET bench is really really bad? The whole team is only +1.8 on the season, and Morris plays 38 mpg. For those 10 mpg he's not playing, the unti playing must be historically wretched to make Morris' on/off look that good.

Yeah you are probably right considering there is 4 DET players in there. GSW has 2 as well but their starters and historically good and their bench is meh. DET starters are just good and their bench is like baaaaad

Detroit starters are amongst the best in the league and what's dragging the whole team down is the bench. There is a thread on the Detroit board and it's unreal just how bad our bench is. The stats are just amazing. Like holy **** amazingly in just how bad our bench is and just how good our starting group is.

It's tough watching our starters pile up a big lead against anyone and the bench drain it in a matter of minutes. It's like giving a problem gambler 100$ and they come back from more as your hand is lowering after you just gave them the money.

It's sickening how bad the Pistons bench is.

[Moose10Fan]

Jennings back soon, even at 50% he is a huge plus for our bench unit.

[zeebneeb]

And even if he becomes an allstar for years to come I am just glad he is off the Suns. I don't think very many Suns fans miss him.
Now we just have to rid ourselves of Markieff which seems to be happening soon anyways.

Send him to DET please so SVG can make him twice the player he was for you guys

Well I'm thinking eventually their moron head coach will have a 5 guard starting lineup so they can play true small ball. Preferably everyone 6'3 and under.

I just don't understand the Suns organization at all.

[zimpy27]

Yep, the Pistons bench is garbage. Need Jennings and Meeks. They should probably upgrade Tolliver too.

[phnart]

I think Marcus Morris started this thread.

[sca]

+/- has always been how the team performs when you are on the court. There is a different stat which is on court / off court differential which is what you're referring to . http://www.sportingcharts.com/nba/stats/individual-player-plus-minus-statistics/2015/

I don't agree that it makes any sense to call Oncourt "+/-". As I've already pointed out, +/- is defined differently in various spots. But regardless, here are the On/Off leaders for those who are interested-

Marcus Morris 28.9
Curry------------ 26.8
Green----------- 24.3
Caldwell-Pope 23.4
James----------- 23.3
R Jackson------ 21.3
Drummond----- 20.8
Westbrook----- 20.3
Dellavedova---- 19.1
Middleton------ 16.4

"Leading in +/-" is something entirely different than "leading in on/off..." On/off stats are useless without context. +/- is also not entirely useful by itself, but is definitely more so than on/off.

When a player has a good +/-, that means line-ups featuring him are doing better than the opposing team's line-ups.

When a player has a good on/off, that means line-ups featuring him are doing better than the line-ups not featuring him.

Now to put things in context... Detroit probably has the worst bench in the entire league... Which always blows leads and/or digs holes in close games... Meanwhile line-ups featuring Steph Curry straight up dominate.

Don't get me wrong, the Pistons starting five is doing great (+12.4 pts per 100 poss), but not as great as their on/off stats suggest.

[Todd3]

+/- means how much a team outscores the other or gets outscored by when that player is on the court.

On/Off is the +/- of a starter vs the +/- of his backup.

For example, say the Pistons outscore their opponent by 10 when Marcus is in the game, and then get outscored by 10 when Stanley Johnson is in for him at SF. Morris will finish with a plus/minus of +10, SJ will finish with a -10, and Morris will have an on/off of 20 (as there was a 20 pt differential between when he was in the game vs Johnson).

So being backed up by a rookie has something to do with Morris' great on/off number, but he still has to perform great too in order to accomplish that, which is confirmed by him being 10th in +/-. Which is still an great accomplishment too, considering all the other names in the top 10. To get any player on that list for a 2020 2nd rd pick is insane.

His offense has been great, but his defense is the real surprise here. He isn't just a solid defender like I expected,. He has been an elite defender, which I had no idea we would be getting. He is great defensively, can score from anywhere on the court in a variety ways (47% from 3 over the last 11 games & great in the post all year), competes hard every play, has a high IQ, makes clutch/timely shots, etc. He isn't elite at everything and can be streaky, but he is really a complete player overall. Basically a poor man's mini-Sheed.

[MotownMadness]

+/- means how much a team outscores the other or gets outscored by when that player is on the court.

On/Off is the +/- of a starter vs the +/- of his backup.

For example, say the Pistons outscore their opponent by 10 when Marcus is in the game, and then get outscored by 10 when Stanley Johnson is in for him at SF. Morris will finish with a plus/minus of +10, SJ will finish with a -10, and Morris will have an on/off of 20 (as there was a 20 pt differential between when he was in the game vs Johnson).

So being backed up by a rookie has something to do with Morris' great on/off number, but he still has to perform great too in order to accomplish that, which is confirmed by him being 10th in +/-. Which is still an great accomplishment too, considering all the other names in the top 10. To get any player on that list for a 2020 2nd rd pick is insane.

His offense has been great, but his defense is the real surprise here. He isn't just a solid defender like I expected,. He has been an elite defender, which I had no idea we would be getting. He is great defensively, can score from anywhere on the court in a variety ways (47% from 3 over the last 11 games & great in the post all year), competes hard every play, has a high IQ, makes clutch/timely shots, etc. He isn't elite at everything and can be streaky, but he is really a complete player overall. Basically a poor man's mini-Sheed.

Elite defensively seems a bit excessive

[zeebneeb]

+/- means how much a team outscores the other or gets outscored by when that player is on the court.

On/Off is the +/- of a starter vs the +/- of his backup.

For example, say the Pistons outscore their opponent by 10 when Marcus is in the game, and then get outscored by 10 when Stanley Johnson is in for him at SF. Morris will finish with a plus/minus of +10, SJ will finish with a -10, and Morris will have an on/off of 20 (as there was a 20 pt differential between when he was in the game vs Johnson).

So being backed up by a rookie has something to do with Morris' great on/off number, but he still has to perform great too in order to accomplish that, which is confirmed by him being 10th in +/-. Which is still an great accomplishment too, considering all the other names in the top 10. To get any player on that list for a 2020 2nd rd pick is insane.

His offense has been great, but his defense is the real surprise here. He isn't just a solid defender like I expected,. He has been an elite defender, which I had no idea we would be getting. He is great defensively, can score from anywhere on the court in a variety ways (47% from 3 over the last 11 games & great in the post all year), competes hard every play, has a high IQ, makes clutch/timely shots, etc. He isn't elite at everything and can be streaky, but he is really a complete player overall. Basically a poor man's mini-Sheed.

Elite defensively seems a bit excessive

I'm carefully with my wording when talking about Morris the defender only because it's only been 24 games. Within that context though if elite starts at 8.5 (scale defensivly 1-10 let's say)Morris is at an 8. He has been outstanding on the defensive end of the floor and the other night against George he was at a 9.

Morris has been an absolute pleasure to have in Detroit where his attitude and rough style of play is appreciated to the core. It has rubbed off on the rest of the team as noted when Andre hammered the piss out of George when he drove the lane early in the game.

Drive the lane in Detroit, bring a bandage with you. I love it.

Thanks Phoenix!

[Revived]

Now they just need to trade Stanley Johnson for Kieff and they can have the upgrade Illyasova and have both Morris twins along with Drummond for their front court.

[tmorgan]

Our bench is beyond horrible, which is skewing those on/off numbers, but Marcus has been better than expected, certainly.

[Zion Wembanyama]

While he's far from an allstar, he's been very useful so far. Absolute heist by Pistons.

After drafting Darko; the 2005 finals loss; the 2006 conference finals loss, 2007 conference finals loss, 2008 conference finals loss; signing C-Vill, Ben Gordon, JSmoove and trading Middleton... you guys deserve it!

[Moose10Fan]

While he's far from an allstar, he's been very useful so far. Absolute heist by Pistons.

After drafting Darko; the 2005 finals loss; the 2006 conference finals loss, 2007 conference finals loss, 2008 conference finals loss; signing C-Vill, Ben Gordon, JSmoove and trading Middleton... you guys deserve it!

damn thanks for reminding me how awesome we were! Love it!

[garrick]

I just can't believe the Suns. They trade away Marcus who's locked in at 5 mil per for the next 4 years for a 2nd rd pick while also pissing off one of their more productive players in Markieff. All for some wet dream of signing LA. That FO has made some very questionable moves over the years.

Well there is the little issue of them being involved in an alleged assault and the case has not gone to court yet.

Marcus might be ok now since he is getting a lot of minutes and feeling hurt by getting traded but you're going to have to wait a little while till you see the real Marcus, just like Markeiff if they aren't motivated they play like crap just like how Markieff is playing right now.

[MotownMadness]

I just can't believe the Suns. They trade away Marcus who's locked in at 5 mil per for the next 4 years for a 2nd rd pick while also pissing off one of their more productive players in Markieff. All for some wet dream of signing LA. That FO has made some very questionable moves over the years.

Well there is the little issue of them being involved in an alleged assault and the case has not gone to court yet.

Marcus might be ok now since he is getting a lot of minutes and feeling hurt by getting traded but you're going to have to wait a little while till you see the real Marcus, just like Markeiff if they aren't motivated they play like crap just like how Markieff is playing right now.

He played solid ball last year and is playing right at what his per36 calculated. As of now he's been good and it seems like just flat out hate to say he will be bad eventually.

[Liqourish]

While he's far from an allstar, he's been very useful so far. Absolute heist by Pistons.

After drafting Darko; the 2005 finals loss; the 2006 conference finals loss, 2007 conference finals loss, 2008 conference finals loss; signing C-Vill, Ben Gordon, JSmoove and trading Middleton... you guys deserve it!

I wouldn't call 6 straight Conference Finals appearances a let down.

[garrick]

What I'm saying is he has maturity issues and lets say for example his minutes are cut in favor of a better player in the rotation, will he still be a team player or is he going to pout and demand a trade like his brother?