12/12 Spurs at Hawks

[ATL Boy]

The same way I can't judge guys like Nurkic is the same way you can't judge them either, he had a nice little run over a very short period during his rookie season, you know, similar to Tim Hardaway Jr., but how's that worked out since? See, it's a matter of perspective, you can manipulate it plus or minus in whatever favor you prefer much in the same manner that it also takes some serious hindsight to even start reaching into the 2nd round for missed 1st round picks like Green.

But again, this started with you making a comparison to the Spurs. What you are arguing has zero comparison to the Spurs.

I don't see how the draft has zero comparison to the Spurs. They've been built through the draft, and are consistently replenishing throughout the draft to maintain success, the way we need to do.

You can argue that there was no value for us to choose from in our draft slots all you want, but it's not true. While you are right that SOME of those players are role players, like Plumlee and Dieng in 2013, they would have been better selections than Bebe. Or even worse: Bebe might end up being a contributor, but we gave up on him and traded him for cap space. Drafting Nurkic in 2014 would have been a better decision than taking Payne and then trading him for a pick down the line.

Then there are the potential star players we passed up on. Gobert in 2013, Green in 2012. You have a point that it takes some hindsight to talk about this now, but your original argument was basically there was no value from us to choose from in those drafts:

In fact, you could put together almost every single pick taken at or after Kawhi's slot in every draft that the Hawks have had a pick since and you still wouldn't get a player 1/10th of Kawhi.

Not a single one or even the whole group of them together can have a profound effect on a franchise unless they are surrounded by massively more talented players.

Even if we had hit only role players since 2012, we'd still be in a better position than having literally one out of four players taken in the middle of the first round be a contributor. But there were at least a couple of franchise altering guys taken after our selection in those drafts; and maybe more depending on how Nurkic develops.

Yea, the Spurs built through the draft....by drafting both David Robinson and Tim Duncan #1 overall. Your point only touches on Manu and Parker whom they picked during a time when international scouting wasn't fully in vogue in the NBA before later TRADING for Kawhi and signing Aldridge. That isn't some team built on late first and 2nd rounders like you are attempting to argue.

My point isn't that there wasn't "value" at the Hawks slots, my point is that there weren't and aren't any players 1/10th of Kawhi. When Duncan, Manu, and Parker hang it up both Kawhi and Aldridge will be the de facto number 1 and 2 options on their team. Tell me what #1 or 2 options the Hawks passed on? I'll wait.

Again, zero comparison.

Lol I never said that we need to be getting Duncan's Parker's, or Ginobili's in the draft. We have our core, my point is that we can't keep wasting first round picks and then expect to be successful. But hey, if you think that we won't be in a better position as a franchise if we actually developed our young talent instead of drafting it and giving it away then so be it.


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[MaceCase]

Kawhi Leonard is on his way to being an absolute superstar in this league. Whenever we looked like we were ready to go on a run and bring it back to a manageable deficit, Kawhi just answered back with a couple of mid range shots to restore their lead to 20, multiple times.

That's the key to maintaining this huge run of success, for the Spurs, and it is for us as well: drafting. Leonard went in the middle of the first round. All of our picks in the middle of the first continue to get squandered, other than Dennis. We must start drafting better if we want to maintain our success long term.


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This was the very first post you made that I responded to. As you can see, your point is very clear.

The Spurs have won less than 50 games only 3 times in the past 25 years which of course coincides with when David Robinson arrived from his navy commitments.

That huge run of success dating to now is because they have drafted superstars and not just drafted.

Any comparison between the Hawks and the Spurs ends at they have one of Pop's former assistants coaching like at least 10 other teams in the NBA in the past decade, period.

You tried to make the point that because the Spurs got a superstar in the middle of the draft that the Hawks have somehow squandered selecting superstars in the middle of the draft.

To put it simply, LaMarcus Aldridge would not have picked a place like San Antonio to spend the rest of his career if he knew that the second best player next to him after their big 3 retired would be Rudy Gobert.

Not a single player available in the draft to the Hawks would have put them in the same stratosphere of the Spurs. Make them slightly better? Sure, but that doesn't put you in the same conversation as the Spurs to be making a comparison, which you did.

[ATL Boy]

Kawhi Leonard is on his way to being an absolute superstar in this league. Whenever we looked like we were ready to go on a run and bring it back to a manageable deficit, Kawhi just answered back with a couple of mid range shots to restore their lead to 20, multiple times.

That's the key to maintaining this huge run of success, for the Spurs, and it is for us as well: drafting. Leonard went in the middle of the first round. All of our picks in the middle of the first continue to get squandered, other than Dennis. We must start drafting better if we want to maintain our success long term.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

This was the very first post you made that I responded to. As you can see, your point is very clear.

The Spurs have won less than 50 games only 3 times in the past 25 years which of course coincides with when David Robinson arrived from his navy commitments.

That huge run of success dating to now is because they have drafted superstars and not just drafted.

Any comparison between the Hawks and the Spurs ends at they have one of Pop's former assistants coaching like at least 10 other teams in the NBA in the past decade, period.

You tried to make the point that because the Spurs got a superstar in the middle of the draft that the Hawks have somehow squandered selecting superstars in the middle of the draft.

To put it simply, LaMarcus Aldridge would not have picked a place like San Antonio to spend the rest of his career if he knew that the second best player next to him after their big 3 retired would be Rudy Gobert.

Not a single player available in the draft to the Hawks would have put them in the same stratosphere of the Spurs. Make them slightly better? Sure, but that doesn't put you in the same conversation as the Spurs to be making a comparison, which you did.

My point was that we can't keep squandering first round picks if we want to maintain success in the future, I never said that we have to draft a superstar, and was just using the Kawhi pick as an example and testament to RC Buford's brilliance as a GM. Although there were two potential stars passed up by the Hawks over the years in Gobert and Green, possibly three depending on Nurkic's development.

At the end of the day the point is that we can't keep wasting first round picks year after year like we've been doing.

But I digress, this conversation has hit its wall and is going nowhere.

[MaceCase]

My point was that we can't keep squandering first round picks if we want to maintain success in the future

That is a point you could have made without drawing a comparison to the Spurs. I specifically called you out on your comparison to the Spurs not fueling your point. That was my point.