2015/16 Offseason: More active than Shakira's hips

[Quake Griffin]

http://www.dodgersnation.com/dodgers-rumors-todd-frazier-targeted-from-rebuilding-reds/2015/12/14/

[Quake Griffin]

Doesn't look like he's played much LF.
Very cheap deal over the next 2 years.

I see him playing 3rd if he comes here and Seager at SS.
OR
he plays 1st and Turner stays at 3rd.


Either way….I've been saying for a while that I think A-Gon's days are numbered here. I want to trade him in my own mind but I believe our front office will deal him regardless of how I feel about him because he's a great asset, particularly if we eat half his money.


Frazier checks a lot of boxes.
Mainly.
Good 3B glove.
Power RH bat.
He's gonna have to get on bad better this season to get my dick hard though (excuse my expression but whatever).

[Ranma]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/676471660829126656[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/676483150097330177[/tweet]

[Quake Griffin]

It doesnt have to be Ender but the Dodgers don't have a single strength I can point too. We're just a random collection of talent at this point.

Do we have the Starting Pitching?
Do we have the bullpen?
Is it our defense? In field? Out field?

Ender had a .338 OBP with a .301 BA. That's around league an above average OBP by fangraphs standards. He's an elite glove. He doesnt have to take CF from Joc. He played all over the OF last year for Arizona.

_________________________

The Giants get Cueto and we've still done absolutely nothing.
If you don't believe this team is about cutting salary, just look at every FA fall off of the board.
Call the **** Indians and bring in Carrasco or Salazar.
Call the Rays and bring in McGee….something.
go dumpster diving like you usually do…..DO SOMETHING!

[Ranma]

I understand the reactionary sentiments in light of the Cueto signing, but I'd rather that we not panic and commit ourselves to bad and mediocre deals just for the sake of doing something. Filling out the roster with such moves not only doesn't help the situation, but just further exacerbates the problem. Not to mention the loss of assets and future flexibility. Thank goodness that the front office looks to be staying the course.

That is not to say that there is nothing to be concerned about. It's just that we have the same problems as yesterday. Sure, losing Cueto takes the last good option for a #2 starter off the free-agent market, which only increases the leverage in trade discussions for other teams when they're already asking for high prices. However, given what Cueto got, I'm not exactly crying over the loss.

Both the Dodgers and Cardinals were hesitant to even approach the terms that Cueto previously turned down from the Diamondbacks. They were pretty much the only two teams in viable pursuit of him until the Giants stepped up. Getting Cueto for 2-years at $23 million per is something I would have preferred the Dodgers to do, but also giving him a 4-year safety net if things don't work out with that player option was not something I would have acquiesced to.

To be fair, I've read that the Royals claim that Cueto was fully healthy while he was with them, so it is likely the Giants will be off the hook for him after 2017, but the risk--however small--in guaranteeing another 4 years even at a slightly lower AAV is not something the Dodgers or Cardinals were prepared to take, thankfully.

Hopefully, we will no longer pursue any other free agent pitchers. While there is nothing wrong with a Leake, Chen, or Kazmir, there really isn't a need for any of them in the Dodgers rotation barring a trade. I'd just maintain trade discussions with the Indians and Tampa Bay, but I heard that Cleveland asked for A.J. Pollock for Danny Salazar just to give you an idea of the exorbitant asking prices.

The upside is that this should take San Francisco out of the market for a big-name outfielder. That's not to say that the Dodgers will get an Upton or Gordon, but it does position us fairly well with the Cardinals, Angels, Tigers, Royals, Nationals, Rangers, and Orioles as other suitors. I anticipate Cespedes to go to Anaheim, Gordon to land in St. Louis, Davis returning to Baltimore, and Detroit trading for Carlos Gonzalez. That would leave Upton as a free-agent possibility for the Dodgers and Frazier as a trade option with the Reds. At that point, we'd be competing with the D.C., Kansas City, and Texas and, last I checked, the Dodgers are still a premier destination. Of course, it remains to be seen how things will actually play out, but the point is that we aren't necessarily left out in the cold with regards to acquiring a new outfielder.

Speaking of the Reds, one possibility of sending Chapman to the Dodgers may be packaging him along with Frazier as a "throw-in" for the prospects that were agreed to in the discussions for Chapman plus whatever else needs to be added as filler. This would be particularly appealing if we could also include Guerrero and Crawford plus off-setting cash, but it is also unlikely with multiple teams in pursuit. Still, if it did happen, Chapman would be poised to be the 7th/8th inning guy setting up Jansen without being the main part of such a trade.

I still don't think A-Gon will be traded. We already have enough holes to fill as is and he is a featured face for the organization who connects with a huge portion of the community. Also, I'm confident that we're also engaging in talks for McGee, but as it was mentioned previously, the price for major league pitching is quite high right now.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/676488804551774208[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jcrasnick/status/676516261862514688[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/676523754697138177[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/hankschulman/status/676516374106128384[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/676509596219891712[/tweet]

[Neddy]

now that Cueto is off the market, the sense of urgency is actually gone, at least for me. the GIants may have given themselves another couple of years of chances at the WS, but Cueto for 6 years really, isn't a smart deal knowing his history, and the propencity of similar type of players going through a sharp decline in their latter years. as far as Oh is concerned, now there are more information that even tho he claims it was for a few thousands, but in reality it was many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of money and it was at a place which has been accused of having a strong mob ties. he may even face legal trouble in South Korea, and his career could be all but over.

[Neddy]

oh and one more thing, I believe our FO loves to get their hands on guys on a one year deal for compensation picks. Chapman is a pretty good bet that someone will give up their first for.

[Ranma]

I recall not being sold on Quake's suggestion of Ken Giles and Brad Boxberger from a month or two back. I believe I cited their control issues and Giles' tendency to straighten out his fastball. Giles has since been traded for a big package of prospects to become the Astros' new closer while Boxberger and Jake McGee are the subject of trade rumors in Tampa Bay.

With my criticism of both Giles and Boxberger, I thought it'd be fair to point out the concerns I have with McGee. McGee pretty much throws his 4-seam fastball without much usage for his curveball. While he has good command and elite velocity, it is a concern for me, personally. However, he has excelled despite of this and changing his approach could reduce his effectiveness, but one-dimensional pitchers tend to drop off quickly once their velocity fades, especially coming off injury and as they continue to age.

Having said that I still like McGee as a short-term solution for our bullpen, but given his one-dimensional approach, it makes me even more wary of paying the high price to obtain him.

Jeff Long, FoxSports.com (1/25/15)

There is one last note that is worth considering, which takes McGee'€™s affinity for his fastball from the remarkable to the absurd. McGee'€™s four longest streaks (206, 125, 82, and 60 consecutive fastballs) all came sequentially, with just three curveballs between them. That is, from July 9 through Sept. 20, McGee threw 473 fastballs to just three curves. That'€™s 99.4 percent fastballs. (The exceptions, because you're curious: A whiff of Adam Jones; a pulled foul ball by Chris Coghlan; and ball four to Trevor Plouffe in the 12th pitch of an at-bat. He snapped the "streak" with a whiff of Jose Abreu.)

It'€™s nearly impossible to appreciate this freakishness in real time. Even a casual fan might notice that McGee has a tendency to throw a lot of fastballs, but a streak like the one described lasted months' -- €”realistically, how could you notice?
...

Velocity is his fastball'€™s most noteworthy attribute. The pitch ranges from 95 to 101 mph, which is elite for a lefty. In fact, Brooks Baseball notes that (measured against lefty relievers) McGee'€™s velocity last year would merit a 73 on the 20-80 scouting scale, nearly two and a half standard deviations faster than his contemporaries'€™. Additionally, McGee'€™s usage of the fastball varies minimally by count -- €”or, obviously, at all. Against lefties McGee didn'€™t throw a single curveball when behind or even in the count. He threw just 14 when ahead, with eight of those coming with two strikes on the hitter.
...

There'€™s a hypothesis that pitchers who vary their approach and avoid predictable pitch sequencing are at an advantage. The idea being that varying your pitch sequences keeps hitters off balance and gives the pitcher an edge. McGee is, if nothing else, proof that the null hypothesis can'€™t be discounted out of hand. He posted a 1.89 ERA backed by a robust 1.73 FIP. Opposing hitters know what pitch is coming, and they know where he'€™s throwing it. They know how fast the pitch is, and they know how the pitch moves. None of that matters. Opposing hitters swing at more than 50 percent of his offerings. More than a quarter of those swings result in whiffs. McGee does not care for the concept of pitch sequencing at all. Something tells me he'€™ll be just fine moving forward without it. Regardless of whether McGee is a little mad or just supremely confident in his fastball, the results speak for themselves.

The Predictable but Unhittable Jake McGee

[Neddy]

sounds like McGee is your aveage Walter Johnson.

[Quake Griffin]

Josh Bard coming to our staff.

Bullpen coach?
Will respond to both of you guys up above.

[Quake Griffin]

I understand the reactionary sentiments in light of the Cueto signing, but I'd rather that we not panic and commit ourselves to bad and mediocre deals just for the sake of doing something. Filling out the roster with such moves not only doesn't help the situation, but just further exacerbates the problem. Not to mention the loss of assets and future flexibility. Thank goodness that the front office looks to be staying the course.

That is not to say that there is nothing to be concerned about. It's just that we have the same problems as yesterday. Sure, losing Cueto takes the last good option for a #2 starter off the free-agent market, which only increases the leverage in trade discussions for other teams when they're already asking for high prices. However, given what Cueto got, I'm not exactly crying over the loss.

Both the Dodgers and Cardinals were hesitant to even approach the terms that Cueto previously turned down from the Diamondbacks. They were pretty much the only two teams in viable pursuit of him until the Giants stepped up. Getting Cueto for 2-years at $23 million per is something I would have preferred the Dodgers to do, but also giving him a 4-year safety net if things don't work out with that player option was not something I would have acquiesced to.

To be fair, I've read that the Royals claim that Cueto was fully healthy while he was with them, so it is likely the Giants will be off the hook for him after 2017, but the risk--however small--in guaranteeing another 4 years even at a slightly lower AAV is not something the Dodgers or Cardinals were prepared to take, thankfully.

Hopefully, we will no longer pursue any other free agent pitchers. While there is nothing wrong with a Leake, Chen, or Kazmir, there really isn't a need for any of them in the Dodgers rotation barring a trade. I'd just maintain trade discussions with the Indians and Tampa Bay, but I heard that Cleveland asked for A.J. Pollock for Danny Salazar just to give you an idea of the exorbitant asking prices.

The upside is that this should take San Francisco out of the market for a big-name outfielder. That's not to say that the Dodgers will get an Upton or Gordon, but it does position us fairly well with the Cardinals, Angels, Tigers, Royals, Nationals, Rangers, and Orioles as other suitors. I anticipate Cespedes to go to Anaheim, Gordon to land in St. Louis, Davis returning to Baltimore, and Detroit trading for Carlos Gonzalez. That would leave Upton as a free-agent possibility for the Dodgers and Frazier as a trade option with the Reds. At that point, we'd be competing with the D.C., Kansas City, and Texas and, last I checked, the Dodgers are still a premier destination. Of course, it remains to be seen how things will actually play out, but the point is that we aren't necessarily left out in the cold with regards to acquiring a new outfielder.

Speaking of the Reds, one possibility of sending Chapman to the Dodgers may be packaging him along with Frazier as a "throw-in" for the prospects that were agreed to in the discussions for Chapman plus whatever else needs to be added as filler. This would be particularly appealing if we could also include Guerrero and Crawford plus off-setting cash, but it is also unlikely with multiple teams in pursuit. Still, if it did happen, Chapman would be poised to be the 7th/8th inning guy setting up Jansen without being the main part of such a trade.

I still don't think A-Gon will be traded. We already have enough holes to fill as is and he is a featured face for the organization who connects with a huge portion of the community. Also, I'm confident that we're also engaging in talks for McGee, but as it was mentioned previously, the price for major league pitching is quite high right now.

I don't want to rush and make a deal that is going to put our team behind the 8 ball. However, this front office had more boxes that needed to be checked off this offseason than any other team in the league.

With that said, sure rushing to make a deal in response to other teams is foolish but what does that have to do with Andre Ethier still being a Dodger right now as we speak? See what I mean? We lose leverage every day that he isn't dealt. Moving him is a big move for us but not a big headlines type move like signing a Cueto or Shark. Any fan who views the Ethier issue as a microcosm for this offseason is logically justified IMO.

Are they dragging their feet?
Are they over thinking things?
Are they trying to put together too many complex deals that other teams want to back out of?
Are teams holding us over a barrel to make deals?

With that said. I can only hope this is a ploy to let the dust settle from the winter meetings so that when we take a call from a team, we don't seem desperate and lack leverage. More importantly, I hope the faith that this FO seems to be showing in guys like **** proves to be worth it and can shut up a lot of the doubt/ nerves in some of our fans.

How come Iwakuma hasnt been announced? Are they working on something big and they wanna announce em altogether?

who knows.
I haven't lost faith but man…do something. It doesnt have to be big. Dumpster dive. Acquire a low level reliever that I'm going to be skeptical of but turns out to be alright like Hatcher. SOMETHING! Trade Ethier. SOMETHING!

[Neddy]

I dunno if I talked about this already, but by the end of the season and when we are in the playpoff hunt, we will have to pick and choose whom we should start in the playoffs when it shrinks into a 4 men roster.

Kershaw is stil the best in the business and the ace of the staff.

Kuma is obviously not Greinke, but Greinke is also just a one bad BABIP season away from falling behind Kuma.

Ryu has 80% probability he will regain his pre-injury form.

McCarthy wil be back before the season is over and TJS has better than 87% full recovery as well.

then there are still the ground ball specialist Anderson and the youngster Wood.

I like our chances, especially we go on and grab Todd Frazier. I do not think he is a superstar, his OBP is atrocious despite his SLG but comes playoff time his power can make a difference in a short series. i was thinking about our potential lineup with Todd coming to us all day, and thought

1. L CF Joc - still love his OBP and believe if he can hit just .250 he will post better than .350 OBP and slug somewhere around .450.
2. R RF Puig - He will have a bounce back year
3. L 1B Gonzo
4. R 3B Turner
5. R LF Frazier (assuming Ethier is traded out)
6. L SS Seager
7. S C Grandal
8. Pitcher
9. L 2B Utley

[Quake Griffin]

You guys think Frazier can cover LF?

[Quake Griffin]

YESSSSS!!!!!!111


in on Ranma covering this trade and posting every tweet.

HNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGHHHH

[Quake Griffin]

Dammit.

Team Stream App made me think the Dodgers were getting Montas and Frazier.
That's why I was super excited initially.

Gotta do more homework on the OFers acquired from the White Sox. I live here but mostly only give their games attention to watch Sale.


With Peraza gone…looks like 2B is ****'s to lose unless we have plans of letting Austin Barnes and Micah Johnson compete for it.
Dunno a bunch about Montas except that he throws gas. I wonder if he's major league ready and if he'll start the season in the minors.

I'm also intrigued in what this front office saw in Trayce Thompson (Klay Thompson's brother)….his hitting numbers in the minors don't suggest that what he did last year in the majors is sustainable. But Ken Rosenthal says he can play CF right away.

[Ranma]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/677183914021150720[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/dylanohernandez/status/677188594285481984[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/677178018746339329[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/677175016665034754[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/677179395690262529[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/pgammo/status/677200450098241536[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/677185769467805696[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BillShaikin/status/677254964335403009[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/molly_knight/status/677176028360413184[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/677219339221794817[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/677188456515284992[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BenBadler/status/677179850138914816[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/MLBPipeline/status/677198600020041728[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/677182311163543552[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/677183379440177152[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/molly_knight/status/677182797811847169[/tweet]

[Quake Griffin]

Hard to make heads or tails of the deal.
Is Montas actually just the bullpen arm we always wanted to deal Peraza for and it's a plus because he's younger and has control years?

or is it a play for something bigger?

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/reds-sell-todd-frazier-for-low-upside-in-three-way-deal/
always try to find a fangraphs write up on these deals.

[Neddy]

I like the deal immensely. I personally think this is either a stroke of genius or a pure dumb luck.

as one of the tweets and your fangraphs article states, we are loading up with quality major league ready prospects that are from outside of our organization to get Potato's inputs useless to evaluate our prospects hierarch.

it seems everybody else is high on Montas and Thompson but dismiss Micah, but personally I really love this kid. for one, he has been an excellent hitter at every level except his cup of coffe last year when he got a 100 ABs from the Sox. he has consistently at every level posted better than .060 points of OBP from his BA. his SLG is at least hovering at average for a middle infielder and some years, better.
if we end up not being able to trade a boat load of prospects for Jose Fernandez, we will at least have another decent option at 2B while have Thompson and Montas be flexible pieces to help our team.

especially from the 3 that went out to 3 that came back, no brainer. we won this deal.


this deal BTW is also happening while two other events happened quietly. for one, I'm sure we all know Kenta Maeda is visting LA with his family accompanying him. the Nippon Pro Baseball's news outlets have been reporting that he was meeting not only his agent but the dodgers FO and his wife wanted to look around to find their potential new home. second I am sure not many have heard, is that the Dodgers FO made an urgent call for Ryu to return back to USA to examine his arm and his recovery. since then, there has been no annoucement of Maeda joining the dodgers but we just got ourselves a 3 more pieces to add to the haul for Jose F. I think we have checked out Ryu and it appears that he is very likely to return back to his prime self, and we are teasing the Marlins with a package that does not involve Seager or Urias to see if we can get the Marlin star before we fall back to the back up plan that is the two time Sawamura award winner.

if Ryu was unlikely to return, they would have pressed harder on Maeda while still working the Marlins. remember, IF Ryu and Jose can be added to this rotation, that is Kershaw - Fernandez - Kuma - Ryu - Anderson with McCarthy waiting for his return and Magic MIke and others standing by. we can package Wood to that deal. De Leon, Montas, Thmopson, MIcah, Holmes, Barnes, AND Wood? **** that is the boat load of prospects Marlins were asking for and some more.

[Quake Griffin]

I dunno what to make out of Trayce Thompson?

Is he an every day starter? Is he a 4th OF?
Is his production rate over 135 ABs last year sustainable?

edit:
Bill Shaikin
@BillShaikin
Follow
Friedman, asked if he is any more comfortable trading elite pitching prospects today than he was yesterday: "Yeah."
2:20 PM - 16 Dec 2015

Bill Shaikin
@BillShaikin
11h
Friedman on why he didn't get Frazier: He wanted Turner to stay at 3B. Would have been "messy" to try to play Frazier elsewhere.

Bill Shaikin
@BillShaikin
11h
Andrew Friedman said Dodgers like Frankie Montas as starting pitcher and if not "impact bullpen arm." Many scouts see him as power reliever.
View details ·


Well…he's spoken.

[Ranma]

In addition to Quake's post immediately above edited with the added tweets, here are some more reference materials:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BenBadler/status/677192809405792256[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/677415246206734336[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JimBowden_ESPN/status/677180410866962432[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/dylanohernandez/status/677249181208023040[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/BillShaikin/status/677250358943555585[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/billplunkettocr/status/677253765527764992[/tweet]

Tom Singer, MLB.com (12/16/15)

"This trade helps lengthen our prospect group a little bit. We're having a lot of conversations that involve potentially trading prospects," Andrew Friedman, the Dodgers' president of baseball operations, said on a media conference call. "[This trade] wasn't necessarily directly connected, but every move we make has some connection.

"We're aware of other teams having an interest in some of the guys we acquired -- and in other young players in our system. This gives us a lot of options in trying to make a deal."
...

Friedman characterized them as "three young players who we feel have a real chance to contribute in 2016 [and] fit our short- and long-term roster better."

Dodgers Land Trio of Prospects in 3-Team Trade


Jon Weisman, DodgerInsider.com (12/16/15)

Frazier ranked higher defensively — in fact, according to Fangraphs, nearly half of his value this year was in his defense. But his defensive metrics have fluctuated throughout his big-league career. For the Dodgers, it didn’t make sense to start moving pieces around the diamond.

“With JT coming off knee surgery, we felt it was in everybody’s best interest to have him locked in at third,” Friedman said. “We actually talked about acquiring Todd and playing him at a different position, but just felt like there was a chance for that to be messy.”

Passing on Todd Frazier, Dodgers Show Commitment to Justin Turner