Chandler - My Bigest Disappointment

[Puff]

We all have blamed Markieff for a lot of our problems while taking shots at almost everyone else be it the players coaches or management. However I really think my biggest disappointment has been Tyson Chandler. Surely he has been hurt but it appeared like he was in no hurry to return. That could be a cheap shot, so be it. I and many others really believed that he would come in and be a great leader while helping many of our youngsters get better. I have seen no indication of that at all.

At this point I just see a guy making a crap load of money and not giving much in return.

Who is your biggest disappointment?

[GMATCallahan]

We all have blamed Markieff for a lot of our problems while taking shots at almost everyone else be it the players coaches or management. However I really think my biggest disappointment has been Tyson Chandler. Surely he has been hurt but it appeared like he was in no hurry to return. That could be a cheap shot, so be it. I and many others really believed that he would come in and be a great leader while helping many of our youngsters get better. I have seen no indication of that at all.

At this point I just see a guy making a crap load of money and not giving much in return.

Who is your biggest disappointment?

The season is long, and Chandler is not a "skill" guy, anyway. Having him play through an injury, with reduced mobility, would likely hurt the team's performance and would risk him being out for much longer. If Chandler is not virtually one hundred percent healthy, I would much rather see Len take those minutes and continue to develop.

There is a reason why you have thirteen players on an active roster.

Biggest disappointment? I would go with Markieff Morris by default, but I did not want him back to begin with. Personally, I thought that the Suns should have gone after Greg Monroe in free agency last summer, possibly via a sign-and-trade with Detroit involving the Morris twins. (I actually mentioned this idea, in passing, on the board last June.) Instead, the Suns aimed high with LaMarcus Aldridge and ultimately missed. (Of course, how Monroe would have impacted the team is merely a matter of speculation.)

I am not really "disappointed" in Chandler, but I would not be above pairing him with Morris in a trade.

[letsgosuns]

There is no way to describe Chandler other than to say he has been a disappointment. 5 points and 8 rebounds per game? That is awful. He is making 13 million per year so he is basically tied for highest paid player with Bledsoe. He is averaging 0.7 blocks per game. The worst mark of his career. His lowest previous block average was 1.1 blocks per game. His fg percentage is down almost 20 percent from last year. That is unfathomable. This is his worst fg percentage since 2003-04, his third year in the league. Len has been outplaying him.

I was excited when the Suns first signed Chandler. I thought he would provide a far bigger impact. Suns look even worse than last year. His presence is virtually worthless on a non-contending team. He belongs on a team that is a contender that is missing a role playing defensive center. I can see the Cavaliers trying to trade for him. He would perfect for that team.

[TASTIC]

He's basically like an older version of Asik for us right now.

But you have to add in that he's been the voice of a leader which is what we needed. Maybe if he led by example better on the court we'd be in better shape, but I have faith he'll come right and be back to 9-10pts with 10-11rebs per.

[sunskerr]

Let's say that the trend continues and he continues to play poorly. How many games from here on out do you start Len, and when do you start looking for trade suitors for Chandler? I'm of the opinion that whilst Len's box scores look nice, he actually hasn't been a notable improvement over Chandler (though Len has improved and still has great potential).

[Saberestar]

Chandler has been a disappointment. He has played only 4 or 5 good games in the season, and when not injured he has played just bad. He can not finish a lot of baskets near the rim, and defensively he has been decent, but not an impact player.

If we are out of the playoffs race before trade deadline I would try to trade him foran expiring and picks. We have to remember that this year he is 33 and he is not getting younger at all.

Hopefully he improves and he becomes for us in the player that we envisioned in the summer.

[bwgood77]

Having a current ankle injury that WILL NOT heal makes me understand that if you try to do things even if it feels 95% better, than you risk messing it all up and setting you back another month, so my feeling on people coming back from injuries quicker has completely changed over the last six months.

I don't totally mind the Chandler signing because I think leadership was needed in the worst way. We started out really well with him pulling down a ton of rebounds and us being top 5 defensively early and leading the league in rebounding (or at least top two).

But he has looked bad lately. I am surprised with the low blocks though.

I think given the cap circumstances and it rising, I do think it was wise to sign players to reasonable contracts prior to the spike as long as they don't negatively impact chemistry, they will likely have trade value later, and we are not overloaded at the position.

[TASTIC]

You know Dallas probably have a very similar thread with 'Chandler' being their biggest disappointment too...

The blocks are really surprising, there were two point blank layups he could have erased yesterday and he didn't even jump, very concerning. Len's a FAR superior shot-blocker that's for sure..

[m1chal]

You know Dallas probably have a very similar thread with 'Chandler' being their biggest disappointment too...

Here you go: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1416467#start_here

[TASTIC]

You know Dallas probably have a very similar thread with 'Chandler' being their biggest disappointment too...

Here you go: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1416467#start_here

I meant Parsons!

[WeekapaugGroove]

Yeah he hasn't been good. Man I really wish the suns had just stopped making moves after dealing Goran and IT last deadline. I don't hate knight but I'd feel much better about the future if they would have just rolled with len at c this year and booker and Goodwin at the 2. If they did this maybe they would have a slightly worse record this year and a better draft position and would also have that Lakers pick coming. In that scenario they could have the two high picks and a boat load of cap space this summer and would have the young guys getting a ton of minutes.

[sunskerr]

Yeah he hasn't been good. Man I really wish the suns had just stopped making moves after dealing Goran and IT last deadline. I don't hate knight but I'd feel much better about the future if they would have just rolled with len at c this year and booker and Goodwin at the 2. If they did this maybe they would have a slightly worse record this year and a better draft position and would also have that Lakers pick coming. In that scenario they could have the two high picks and a boat load of cap space this summer and would have the young guys getting a ton of minutes.

There is no way the Lakers are letting that pick go to another team. They'll finish with a top 3 worst record. So saying we could have had that pick is not true.

What we do have however is a guy who just turned 24 and is averaging 20/5/4. He also shoots the 3 ball pretty well and really just needs to accept that he's a shooting guard through and through. If his defense proves awful then he will have to be shipped out. But right now he's actually a really, really nice piece to have. But I also think Booker can be better than Knight. Knight is not unmovable but certainly commanding some worth. That's the reality of it.

[GMATCallahan]

Yeah he hasn't been good. Man I really wish the suns had just stopped making moves after dealing Goran and IT last deadline. I don't hate knight but I'd feel much better about the future if they would have just rolled with len at c this year and booker and Goodwin at the 2. If they did this maybe they would have a slightly worse record this year and a better draft position and would also have that Lakers pick coming. In that scenario they could have the two high picks and a boat load of cap space this summer and would have the young guys getting a ton of minutes.

... under that scenario, the Suns might be one of the worst teams in the NBA right now—not much better, perhaps, than the Lakers and Sixers. If that is what one wants, in the interest of lottery placement, one can make that argument, but the Suns' record would probably be "much worse," not "slightly worse." Booker turned nineteen just before the season started; he was born just before Steve Nash played his first official NBA game. He offers promise, but he would be overmatched as a starting shooting guard right now. Goodwin still cannot shoot effectively, so he profiles as a slashing specialist off the bench, especially if he learns to make his free throws. But as a starting shooting guard, he would be substandard.

Phoenix is already below-average defensively; without Knight, the Suns would be below-average offensively, too.

[bwgood77]

Yeah he hasn't been good. Man I really wish the suns had just stopped making moves after dealing Goran and IT last deadline. I don't hate knight but I'd feel much better about the future if they would have just rolled with len at c this year and booker and Goodwin at the 2. If they did this maybe they would have a slightly worse record this year and a better draft position and would also have that Lakers pick coming. In that scenario they could have the two high picks and a boat load of cap space this summer and would have the young guys getting a ton of minutes.

There is no way the Lakers are letting that pick go to another team. They'll finish with a top 3 worst record. So saying we could have had that pick is not true.

What we do have however is a guy who just turned 24 and is averaging 20/5/4. He also shoots the 3 ball pretty well and really just needs to accept that he's a shooting guard through and through. If his defense proves awful then he will have to be shipped out. But right now he's actually a really, really nice piece to have. But I also think Booker can be better than Knight. Knight is not unmovable but certainly commanding some worth. That's the reality of it.

Well theoretically if they finish with even the worst record they could end up with the 4th pick. Typically at least one or two teams in the top 3 move down a spot because someone from 4-13 jumps in there...usually someone between like 4 and 6 or 7, but a couple of teams that have been 9th have won. I think Cleveland twice were 9th and won....once with a Clips pick they owned and they got Kyrie and then when they got Wiggins they had the 9th worst record. LA better hope they at least have the 2nd worst record. Sitting 3rd there is probably just about as good of a chance you move down than stay or move up.

[GMATCallahan]

By the way, Chandler was averaging 11.3 rebounds (and shooting .533 from the field) through the first 6 games and 9.5 rebounds through the first 13 games (even though his minutes had dropped by then), so he is clearly not fully healthy and has not been fully healthy for almost a month. Remember that he is, after all, in his fifteenth NBA season and has a history of injuries to boot.

I was never enthusiastic about signing him, but as I said, the season is long, injuries happen, and Phoenix inked him to a four-year contract, anyway. So the book is far from being written ...

[GMATCallahan]

Well theoretically if they finish with even the worst record they could end up with the 4th pick. Typically at least one or two teams in the top 3 move down a spot because someone from 4-13 jumps in there...usually someone between like 4 and 6 or 7, but a couple of teams that have been 9th have won. I think Cleveland twice were 9th and won....once with a Clips pick they owned and they got Kyrie and then when they got Wiggins they had the 9th worst record. LA better hope they at least have the 2nd worst record. Sitting 3rd there is probably just about as good of a chance you move down than stay or move up.

When the Cavaliers drafted Irving first overall in 2011, they had finished with the second-worst record. When they drafted Bennett first overall in 2013, they had finished with the third-worst record. When they drafted Wiggins first overall in 2014, they had finished with the ninth-worst record, but that type of leap has been exceedingly rare since the NBA tightened the lottery after 1993 (when Orlando received the top overall pick for the second straight year, even though the Magic had just finished 41-41 with a rookie Shaquille O'Neal had only missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker).

If the Lakers finish with one of the worst three records, there is still an excellent chance that they will remain in the top three, and they could move up from there. From a Phoenix perspective, fishing for that pick would not be worthwhile.

[bwgood77]

Well theoretically if they finish with even the worst record they could end up with the 4th pick. Typically at least one or two teams in the top 3 move down a spot because someone from 4-13 jumps in there...usually someone between like 4 and 6 or 7, but a couple of teams that have been 9th have won. I think Cleveland twice were 9th and won....once with a Clips pick they owned and they got Kyrie and then when they got Wiggins they had the 9th worst record. LA better hope they at least have the 2nd worst record. Sitting 3rd there is probably just about as good of a chance you move down than stay or move up.

When the Cavaliers drafted Irving first overall in 2011, they had finished with the second-worst record. When they drafted Bennett first overall in 2013, they had finished with the third-worst record. When they drafted Wiggins first overall in 2014, they had finished with the ninth-worst record, but that type of leap has been exceedingly rare since the NBA tightened the lottery after 1993 (when Orlando received the top overall pick for the second straight year, even though the Magic had just finished 41-41 with a rookie Shaquille O'Neal had only missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker).

If the Lakers finish with one of the worst three records, there is still an excellent chance that they will remain in the top three, and they could move up from there. From a Phoenix perspective, fishing for that pick would not be worthwhile.

Yes, but if I'm not mistaken, the year they got Irving, it wasn't with THEIR OWN pick, it was with a pick they had acquired from the Clippers for Mo Williams (I believe). I remember Clips fans being pissed they could have had Kyrie instead of Mo Williams. I also remember stories about the draft room, they couldn't figure out who won because the Cavs guy was scrolling his Cavs #s and not his Clips #s when the balls rolled out and the numbers were revealed.

Edit, just checked...it was Baron Davis in the trade, not Mo Williams. http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_trades/2011

You get to that link by clicking on the Cleveland with the asterisk next to it on the # 1 pick line here. http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2011

Although looking here, I guess the Clips had the 8th worst record that year, not 9th...but regardless Cleveland was the beneficiary twice with big jumps. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html

[GMATCallahan]

Well theoretically if they finish with even the worst record they could end up with the 4th pick. Typically at least one or two teams in the top 3 move down a spot because someone from 4-13 jumps in there...usually someone between like 4 and 6 or 7, but a couple of teams that have been 9th have won. I think Cleveland twice were 9th and won....once with a Clips pick they owned and they got Kyrie and then when they got Wiggins they had the 9th worst record. LA better hope they at least have the 2nd worst record. Sitting 3rd there is probably just about as good of a chance you move down than stay or move up.

When the Cavaliers drafted Irving first overall in 2011, they had finished with the second-worst record. When they drafted Bennett first overall in 2013, they had finished with the third-worst record. When they drafted Wiggins first overall in 2014, they had finished with the ninth-worst record, but that type of leap has been exceedingly rare since the NBA tightened the lottery after 1993 (when Orlando received the top overall pick for the second straight year, even though the Magic had just finished 41-41 with a rookie Shaquille O'Neal had only missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker).

If the Lakers finish with one of the worst three records, there is still an excellent chance that they will remain in the top three, and they could move up from there. From a Phoenix perspective, fishing for that pick would not be worthwhile.

Yes, but if I'm not mistaken, the year they got Irving, it wasn't with THEIR OWN pick, it was with a pick they had acquired from the Clippers for Mo Williams (I believe). I remember Clips fans being pissed they could have had Kyrie instead of Mo Williams. I also remember stories about the draft room, they couldn't figure out who won because the Cavs guy was scrolling his Cavs #s and not his Clips #s when the balls rolled out and the numbers were revealed.

You are completely correct—good call. The Clippers finished with the eighth-worst record that year, and Cleveland used that pick to select Irving.

Edit: okay, you were not completely correct, but your overall point proved accurate.

So Cleveland indeed benefited from a huge lottery leap twice in recent years. Overall, though, the lottery has been much more stable and predictable since the change after the 1993 draft. Therefore, making too much of a play for the Laker pick would not be worthwhile in my view. What the Suns should instead do, in my judgment, is consider packaging upcoming first round picks in an attempt to enhance the current roster and maximize the trade value of Markieff Morris, Tyson Chandler, or anyone else. Remaining in their current position likely will not bring the team over the hump. Phoenix has missed the playoffs in six of the last seven years and has drafted thirteenth or fourteenth in five of those six lottery seasons. Repeating that scenario would not be worthwhile. Either the team should go all the way down—tough to do at this point given the reconstruction that has already occurred—or it should aggressively shop picks to upgrade the starting forward positions and become more of a factor in a surprisingly soft Western Conference (outside of Golden State and San Antonio).

[bwgood77]

You are completely correct—good call. The Clippers finished with the eighth-worst record that year, and Cleveland used that pick to select Irving.

Edit: okay, you were not completely correct, but your overall point proved accurate.

So Cleveland indeed benefited from a huge lottery leap twice in recent years. Overall, though, the lottery has been much more stable and predictable since the change after the 1993 draft. Therefore, making too much of a play for the Laker pick would not be worthwhile in my view. What the Suns should instead do, in my judgment, is consider packaging upcoming first round picks in an attempt to enhance the current roster and maximize the trade value of Markieff Morris, Tyson Chandler, or anyone else. Remaining in their current position likely will not bring the team over the hump. Phoenix has missed the playoffs in six of the last seven years and has drafted thirteenth or fourteenth in five of those six lottery seasons. Repeating that scenario would not be worthwhile. Either the team should go all the way down—tough to do at this point given the reconstruction that has already occurred—or it should aggressively shop picks to upgrade the starting forward positions and become more of a factor in a surprisingly soft Western Conference (outside of Golden State and San Antonio).

Yes, I want 5 seed (would rather not face OKC first round) or 7th pick or better. Interestingly enough, we would be tied right now for the 7th-9th spot in the draft, but we are also only 3.5 games out of 5th place in the west!

I think in the draft, that 7th spot seems significantly better than 8th because with the 7th worst record you have a 15% chance at top 3 and a 4.2% chance at 1st pick. Still not great odds, but 8th and below drop to insane long shots quickly.

http://www.tankathon.com/

[Qwigglez]

Uh so, apparently there's a video on ESPN about how Justin Bieber got baptized in Tyson Chandlers bathtub in his NY home. Not video of that, but Tyson Chandler talking about it. Just weird to me...