CHA/NYK

[mpharris36]

Look at it this way - would you give up $2.5 million per year for a first round pick.

I wouldn't describe Afflalo as a first round pick.

he was just traded last year for will barton and a 1st round pick.

I would argue he is playing better this year than last year. Not that I would want to trade him but if the knicks decided to move some pieces I would be almost positive AA could net a non-lottery 1st round pick easily.

[HartfordWhalers]

Look at it this way - would you give up $2.5 million per year for a first round pick.

I wouldn't describe Afflalo as a first round pick.

he was just traded last year for will barton and a 1st round pick.

I would argue he is playing better this year than last year. Not that I would want to trade him but if the knicks decided to move some pieces I would be almost positive AA could net a non-lottery 1st round pick easily.

That 1st round pick looks like 2 2nd rounders.

[mpharris36]

I wouldn't describe Afflalo as a first round pick.

he was just traded last year for will barton and a 1st round pick.

I would argue he is playing better this year than last year. Not that I would want to trade him but if the knicks decided to move some pieces I would be almost positive AA could net a non-lottery 1st round pick easily.

That 1st round pick looks like 2 2nd rounders.

At the time of the trade it didn't. They had LMA and Lillard and were a playoff team (two straight 50 win seasons). Unless they knew LMA was leaving at the end of the year which would be huge speculation on there part.

Most teams who would want Afflalo would probably be playoff contending teams so usually the pick would convey. Its just the risk you run sometimes.

[HotelVitale]

Fair enough, but for the Knicks being sellers is not ideal, not because of the pick, but it's pointless to trade away Afflalo for cap space that would be difficult to take advantage of if the Knicks tank. If the Knicks get a commitment from a big free agent, then giving up value to get rid of Calderon becomes a move worth doing, but right now there's no reason to give up the Knicks' starting backcourt for a backup PG and another center.

I think the pt in the OP's trade was more to get rid of Lopez and Afflalo. AA's got a short, pretty cap friendly deal and he's useful to different teams. Lopez has a giant deal that could restrict things for years to come.

I understand not wanting to dump those guys, though, and I'd probably prefer not to if I was a Knicks fan. Others are right that, ideally, you could restart the rebuild with younger or better guys. But's that hard to do in FA and the lack of picks makes it hard to do too. I might just try to swing for a big FA, miss, and then be a decent team with Melo, KP, and vets for the next couple years.

[R-DAWG]

Look at it this way - would you give up $2.5 million per year for a first round pick.

I wouldn't describe Afflalo as a first round pick.

If we traded him we can get a protected 1st round pick so I would describe his value as a first round pick. But I hope that he's a Knick for many year to come. The guy is the definition of a solid solid player.

[Swoosh_Stripes]

Fair enough, but for the Knicks being sellers is not ideal, not because of the pick, but it's pointless to trade away Afflalo for cap space that would be difficult to take advantage of if the Knicks tank. If the Knicks get a commitment from a big free agent, then giving up value to get rid of Calderon becomes a move worth doing, but right now there's no reason to give up the Knicks' starting backcourt for a backup PG and another center.

I think the pt in the OP's trade was more to get rid of Lopez and Afflalo. AA's got a short, pretty cap friendly deal and he's useful to different teams. Lopez has a giant deal that could restrict things for years to come.

I understand not wanting to dump those guys, though, and I'd probably prefer not to if I was a Knicks fan. Others are right that, ideally, you could restart the rebuild with younger or better guys. But's that hard to do in FA and the lack of picks makes it hard to do too. I might just try to swing for a big FA, miss, and then be a decent team with Melo, KP, and vets for the next couple years.

They just signed Lopez, I wouldn't trade him unless there's a deal too good to pass up. When is the last time a team signed a player to a 4 year $10M+ and traded that player after just a half season? The Knicks could always make Lopez available in the off-season, perhaps a team would look to trade for Rolo rather than paying $20M+ for a guy like Howard or Whiteside.

[HotelVitale]

Fair enough, but for the Knicks being sellers is not ideal, not because of the pick, but it's pointless to trade away Afflalo for cap space that would be difficult to take advantage of if the Knicks tank. If the Knicks get a commitment from a big free agent, then giving up value to get rid of Calderon becomes a move worth doing, but right now there's no reason to give up the Knicks' starting backcourt for a backup PG and another center.

I think the pt in the OP's trade was more to get rid of Lopez and Afflalo. AA's got a short, pretty cap friendly deal and he's useful to different teams. Lopez has a giant deal that could restrict things for years to come. I understand not wanting to dump those guys, though, and I'd probably prefer not to if I was a Knicks fan. Others are right that, ideally, you could restart the rebuild with younger or better guys. But's that hard to do in FA and the lack of picks makes it hard to do too. I might just try to swing for a big FA, miss, and then be a decent team with Melo, KP, and vets for the next couple years.

They just signed Lopez, I wouldn't trade him unless there's a deal too good to pass up. When is the last time a team signed a player to a 4 year $10M+ and traded that player after just a half season? The Knicks could always make Lopez available in the off-season, perhaps a team would look to trade for Rolo rather than paying $20M+ for a guy like Howard or Whiteside.

I don't know the history of trades right after FA deals, but I also don't think that history is relevant. Each trade situation is different, and I could definitely see a good case for trading Lopez now. Also, in this deal NYK gets back a 1st, Hairston, (whom I like), and a big expiring, which is probably as good as you could hope for in trading Lopez. I doubt any team this offseason would give you a better offer.

Like I said, I probably wouldn't want to trade Lopez/AA now (why not just play out the season?), but it wouldn't be a bad move.

[R-DAWG]

I think the pt in the OP's trade was more to get rid of Lopez and Afflalo. AA's got a short, pretty cap friendly deal and he's useful to different teams. Lopez has a giant deal that could restrict things for years to come. I understand not wanting to dump those guys, though, and I'd probably prefer not to if I was a Knicks fan. Others are right that, ideally, you could restart the rebuild with younger or better guys. But's that hard to do in FA and the lack of picks makes it hard to do too. I might just try to swing for a big FA, miss, and then be a decent team with Melo, KP, and vets for the next couple years.

They just signed Lopez, I wouldn't trade him unless there's a deal too good to pass up. When is the last time a team signed a player to a 4 year $10M+ and traded that player after just a half season? The Knicks could always make Lopez available in the off-season, perhaps a team would look to trade for Rolo rather than paying $20M+ for a guy like Howard or Whiteside.

I don't know the history of trades right after FA deals, but I also don't think that history is relevant. Each trade situation is different, and I could definitely see a good case for trading Lopez now. Also, in this deal NYK gets back a 1st, Hairston, (whom I like), and a big expiring, which is probably as good as you could hope for in trading Lopez. I doubt any team this offseason would give you a better offer.

Like I said, I probably wouldn't want to trade Lopez/AA now (why not just play out the season?), but it wouldn't be a bad move.

If it was Lopez for an expiring and a pick the move would be fine. Exact same package that Asik and Gortat was traded for.
Or if the package was Afflalo for a pick it would be fine.

Lopez and Afflalo for 1 pick and a fringe prospect is horrible value.

It will be better to trade Lopez over the summer when every team has cap space and there isn't enough talent for everyone.

[HotelVitale]

If it was Lopez for an expiring and a pick the move would be fine. Exact same package that Asik and Gortat was traded for. Or if the package was Afflalo for a pick it would be fine. Lopez and Afflalo for 1 pick and a fringe prospect is horrible value. It will be better to trade Lopez over the summer when every team has cap space and there isn't enough talent for everyone.

Might be right about Lopez in the summer, but I'm not sure AA has the value you're imagining. Most teams would love to have him but he's a 30 year-old who's not particularly productive or efficient, and all of whose advanced numbers point to 'solid rotation player.' He also has a player option this offseason which would make him UFA, right? The market was very cold on him this offseason too.

Seems like he only nets a pick for him is if some contender (one of the few that has picks left to deal) has some injury issues at SG.

[Swoosh_Stripes]

I think the pt in the OP's trade was more to get rid of Lopez and Afflalo. AA's got a short, pretty cap friendly deal and he's useful to different teams. Lopez has a giant deal that could restrict things for years to come. I understand not wanting to dump those guys, though, and I'd probably prefer not to if I was a Knicks fan. Others are right that, ideally, you could restart the rebuild with younger or better guys. But's that hard to do in FA and the lack of picks makes it hard to do too. I might just try to swing for a big FA, miss, and then be a decent team with Melo, KP, and vets for the next couple years.

They just signed Lopez, I wouldn't trade him unless there's a deal too good to pass up. When is the last time a team signed a player to a 4 year $10M+ and traded that player after just a half season? The Knicks could always make Lopez available in the off-season, perhaps a team would look to trade for Rolo rather than paying $20M+ for a guy like Howard or Whiteside.

I don't know the history of trades right after FA deals, but I also don't think that history is relevant. Each trade situation is different, and I could definitely see a good case for trading Lopez now. Also, in this deal NYK gets back a 1st, Hairston, (whom I like), and a big expiring, which is probably as good as you could hope for in trading Lopez. I doubt any team this offseason would give you a better offer.

Like I said, I probably wouldn't want to trade Lopez/AA now (why not just play out the season?), but it wouldn't be a bad move.

History is relevant when trying to entice other free agents to sign, why clear up cap space if you can't entice anyone to sign? So the Knicks would trade their 3rd best player forgoing any chance of competing and in turn create the same obstacles that hinder their ability to sign free agents. On top of selling free agents on joining a losing team the Knicks will have the added uncertainty that even if they sign a player to a 4 year deal the Knicks will move you within the first year of that contract.

[R-DAWG]

If it was Lopez for an expiring and a pick the move would be fine. Exact same package that Asik and Gortat was traded for. Or if the package was Afflalo for a pick it would be fine. Lopez and Afflalo for 1 pick and a fringe prospect is horrible value. It will be better to trade Lopez over the summer when every team has cap space and there isn't enough talent for everyone.

Might be right about Lopez in the summer, but I'm not sure AA has the value you're imagining. Most teams would love to have him but he's a 30 year-old who's not particularly productive or efficient, and all of whose advanced numbers point to 'solid rotation player.' He also has a player option this offseason which would make him UFA, right? The market was very cold on him this offseason too.

Seems like he only nets a pick for him is if some contender (one of the few that has picks left to deal) has some injury issues at SG.

he was traded for a protected 1st last season, same contract situation, worse production and efficiency. But the Knicks aren't moving him. The Knicks aren't trying to take a step back this season. They don't have their pick.

Seems like the Knicks have a lot of players that other teams want. I think we will keep them and enjoy watching our team in a year that we don't own a pick.

[nykballa2k4]

A) NY is moving their entire starting back court to create a log jam at Center when our best lineup might be Porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4
B) Jose is paid on par with other backup PG's hardley a bad contract
C) NY has plenty of cap space no need to pay to create more before you know you need it
D) Afflalo, even with his player option, is worth a 1st rd pick like he was traded for last year

This is a horrible short term and long term idea for the Knicks, they won't do it.

May not be as bad as you think. It would put Galloway into the starer role. Roberts would have to step up as a reserve meanwhile we look for an upgrade. Grant has an opportunity to emerge. we actually get faster because Calderon is no longer there. Afflalo is a huge loss, but Early would get a chance to sink/swim.

Afflalo is arguably the 2nd best player on the team and best all around player on the team. Calderon isn't blocking Grant, Grant's shooitng is blocking Grant. And Early isn't an NBA player.

The Knicks are 10 wins worse, in a year we don't own our pick, with this trade. And the Knicks already have a surplus of cap space in a summer when every team has cap space and there is limited talent available. All the extra cap space will allow you to do is significantly overpay for mediocre players.

Our pick outgoing is a moot point. If this deal makes us better in 2016 then despite how it makes TOR feel, we have to do it.
Grant being baptized by fire may help him. It also might not. I agree with the logic of having veterans for building culture.
I guess I would rather see this team do well and hope for a 2nd tier FA rather than toss away this season and hope for KD.

[R-DAWG]

May not be as bad as you think. It would put Galloway into the starer role. Roberts would have to step up as a reserve meanwhile we look for an upgrade. Grant has an opportunity to emerge. we actually get faster because Calderon is no longer there. Afflalo is a huge loss, but Early would get a chance to sink/swim.

Afflalo is arguably the 2nd best player on the team and best all around player on the team. Calderon isn't blocking Grant, Grant's shooitng is blocking Grant. And Early isn't an NBA player.

The Knicks are 10 wins worse, in a year we don't own our pick, with this trade. And the Knicks already have a surplus of cap space in a summer when every team has cap space and there is limited talent available. All the extra cap space will allow you to do is significantly overpay for mediocre players.

Our pick outgoing is a moot point. If this deal makes us better in 2016 then despite how it makes TOR feel, we have to do it.
Grant being baptized by fire may help him. It also might not. I agree with the logic of having veterans for building culture.
I guess I would rather see this team do well and hope for a 2nd tier FA rather than toss away this season and hope for KD.

Losing Affalo and creating a log jam at C makes us worse this year not better.

[nykballa2k4]

Afflalo is arguably the 2nd best player on the team and best all around player on the team. Calderon isn't blocking Grant, Grant's shooitng is blocking Grant. And Early isn't an NBA player.

The Knicks are 10 wins worse, in a year we don't own our pick, with this trade. And the Knicks already have a surplus of cap space in a summer when every team has cap space and there is limited talent available. All the extra cap space will allow you to do is significantly overpay for mediocre players.

Our pick outgoing is a moot point. If this deal makes us better in 2016 then despite how it makes TOR feel, we have to do it.
Grant being baptized by fire may help him. It also might not. I agree with the logic of having veterans for building culture.
I guess I would rather see this team do well and hope for a 2nd tier FA rather than toss away this season and hope for KD.

Losing Affalo and creating a log jam at C makes us worse this year not better.

Let me clarify. If we agree that Knicks are not winning the championship this season, and a deal presents itself that makes us clearly better next season, despite if it makes us WORSE this season, we should do it. Trading AA and calderon for cap space and a pick may accomplish that goal.

[R-DAWG]

Our pick outgoing is a moot point. If this deal makes us better in 2016 then despite how it makes TOR feel, we have to do it.
Grant being baptized by fire may help him. It also might not. I agree with the logic of having veterans for building culture.
I guess I would rather see this team do well and hope for a 2nd tier FA rather than toss away this season and hope for KD.

Losing Affalo and creating a log jam at C makes us worse this year not better.

Let me clarify. If we agree that Knicks are not winning the championship this season, and a deal presents itself that makes us clearly better next season, despite if it makes us WORSE this season, we should do it. Trading AA and calderon for cap space and a pick may accomplish that goal.

We don't need to give up anything of value to move essentially $2.5 million in cap space. Trading Afflalo for a pick is fine but taking a lesser pick to move Calderon makes no sense. We spent months debating this last year and at the end of the day the Knicks ended up with $3.5 million of extra cap space last summer.

[nykballa2k4]

Losing Affalo and creating a log jam at C makes us worse this year not better.

Let me clarify. If we agree that Knicks are not winning the championship this season, and a deal presents itself that makes us clearly better next season, despite if it makes us WORSE this season, we should do it. Trading AA and calderon for cap space and a pick may accomplish that goal.

We don't need to give up anything of value to move essentially $2.5 million in cap space. Trading Afflalo for a pick is fine but taking a lesser pick to move Calderon makes no sense. We spent months debating this last year and at the end of the day the Knicks ended up with $3.5 million of extra cap space last summer.

Knicks would be moving Calderon and Afflalo and not having to worry about the stretch provision in this trade scenario... it's more than 2.5 million and we would be getting a pick to boot. There is also a chance we can then move Al to another playoff bound team for yet another asset.

[R-DAWG]

Let me clarify. If we agree that Knicks are not winning the championship this season, and a deal presents itself that makes us clearly better next season, despite if it makes us WORSE this season, we should do it. Trading AA and calderon for cap space and a pick may accomplish that goal.

We don't need to give up anything of value to move essentially $2.5 million in cap space. Trading Afflalo for a pick is fine but taking a lesser pick to move Calderon makes no sense. We spent months debating this last year and at the end of the day the Knicks ended up with $3.5 million of extra cap space last summer.

Knicks would be moving Calderon and Afflalo and not having to worry about the stretch provision in this trade scenario... it's more than 2.5 million and we would be getting a pick to boot. There is also a chance we can then move Al to another playoff bound team for yet another asset.

We will be able to get more value for Afflalo if we don't tie moving him to Calderon. Were not getting a good pick for Afflalo and moving Calderon. It's just not happening.

[nykballa2k4]

We don't need to give up anything of value to move essentially $2.5 million in cap space. Trading Afflalo for a pick is fine but taking a lesser pick to move Calderon makes no sense. We spent months debating this last year and at the end of the day the Knicks ended up with $3.5 million of extra cap space last summer.

Knicks would be moving Calderon and Afflalo and not having to worry about the stretch provision in this trade scenario... it's more than 2.5 million and we would be getting a pick to boot. There is also a chance we can then move Al to another playoff bound team for yet another asset.

We will be able to get more value for Afflalo if we don't tie moving him to Calderon. Were not getting a good pick for Afflalo and moving Calderon. It's just not happening.

You are saying you believe that perhaps we trade Afflalo for a better asset, keep Calderon and still stretch him. I still say that the lesser asset we get back which frees us of Calderon's deal may have a greater impact on next season.

Would I personally do any deal that makes us worse this year for possible gains next year? probably not yet, but one would think this could be a good opportunity.

[R-DAWG]

Knicks would be moving Calderon and Afflalo and not having to worry about the stretch provision in this trade scenario... it's more than 2.5 million and we would be getting a pick to boot. There is also a chance we can then move Al to another playoff bound team for yet another asset.

We will be able to get more value for Afflalo if we don't tie moving him to Calderon. Were not getting a good pick for Afflalo and moving Calderon. It's just not happening.

You are saying you believe that perhaps we trade Afflalo for a better asset, keep Calderon and still stretch him. I still say that the lesser asset we get back which frees us of Calderon's deal may have a greater impact on next season.

Would I personally do any deal that makes us worse this year for possible gains next year? probably not yet, but one would think this could be a good opportunity.

Why pay to open up $2.5 million in cap space before you know we need it? Every time we have made a deal like that it has backfired. Moving Calderon's contract is far from a priority as the cost to move it might be even less next summer if needed.

Also, I don't want to move Afflalo. Were in the playoff race. We have a fun team. We don't have a draft pick.

[nykballa2k4]

We will be able to get more value for Afflalo if we don't tie moving him to Calderon. Were not getting a good pick for Afflalo and moving Calderon. It's just not happening.

You are saying you believe that perhaps we trade Afflalo for a better asset, keep Calderon and still stretch him. I still say that the lesser asset we get back which frees us of Calderon's deal may have a greater impact on next season.

Would I personally do any deal that makes us worse this year for possible gains next year? probably not yet, but one would think this could be a good opportunity.

Why pay to open up $2.5 million in cap space before you know we need it? Every time we have made a deal like that it has backfired. Moving Calderon's contract is far from a priority as the cost to move it might be even less next summer if needed.

Also, I don't want to move Afflalo. Were in the playoff race. We have a fun team. We don't have a draft pick.

Right now? Yeah we don't make that move (imo). The difference isn't 2.5, it's Afflalo's player option + Jose. Yes we can cut both and stretch them, but we can't take anything for granted. Remember, we are the Knicks...