Hassan Whiteside: Road To The Max

[gom]

How did you come up with 7 place holders?? The minimum roster is at 9 players, so it should be 4 place holders only.

There are placeholders added until 13 players are allocated.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q79

What!? Conley gets 20m.. Are you kidding me!!! You probably think that he'worth that much coz the cap space goes up... If ever he demands that much, the Heat will pass on him. By doing my deal, at least they let an over paid Dragic dealt for Cousins while making the two future picks dealt to Phoenix worth.

Yes, Conley will probably get almost 20m, maybe more, not appreciably less, unless he has a rapid drop off in production. This is 2015-6 and the salary cap is 66. It's about to go to 89. You should think in terms of Percentage of salary cap. If you do you will see that both Bosh and Dragic are on good deals.

I doubt the credibility of those article coz I dont think Dragic is better than Lowry, Bledsoe, Lillard, D-Rose, Reggie Jackson. Besides, what to be consider is how a PG fits with the Heat system which I dont see at this point with Dragic and still hoping he does soon.

....

I believe and trust Pat Riley.

Yeah, me too. Dragic & Bosh have won a ton more games than Cousins & Rondo this year. Rondo will want the ball even more than Dragic. Therefore, I don't see your trade making us better near-term. Also, if you care about team chemistry at all, Rondo would be a terrible addition.

It might be better to take this conversation up in the T&T forum or the offseason free agency forum here. You can even set up a poll.

[QUIZ]

Actually, last night was his 82nd game in a Heat uniform.


Additionally...

(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

I hate all of you.

Leaves thread

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ethanjskolnick/status/677342764762324993[/tweet]

[insfo]

If Whiteside wasn't a max player we wouldn't even be talking about it. We can downplay his value all we want but he is getting max money unless he chooses to sign for less. With the touches he is a 20/12 with 4 blocks type force. He is commanding a double team (heck teams are now sending 4 in the paint, which come to think of it spo should be posting him on one block and spread our offence around the other). Few in the league right now are getting double teamed. As many fumbled as turnovers as he has and as awkward as he looks trying to get his non dunk shots him and tj still lead the Heat in fg percentage. He is getting max. The question is with who?

I think the only reason he's getting quadruple teamed (I don't think I've personally seen that, but will take your word for it) is because the word is out of how poor a passer he is and how likely it is that he'll cough it up when double teamed. Not sure how that is a viable strategy we can explore by putting 4 on the other side of the court since there is a good chance that the other 4 will not see the ball that possession.

[Hallstar]

If Whiteside wasn't a max player we wouldn't even be talking about it. We can downplay his value all we want but he is getting max money unless he chooses to sign for less. With the touches he is a 20/12 with 4 blocks type force. He is commanding a double team (heck teams are now sending 4 in the paint, which come to think of it spo should be posting him on one block and spread our offence around the other). Few in the league right now are getting double teamed. As many fumbled as turnovers as he has and as awkward as he looks trying to get his non dunk shots him and tj still lead the Heat in fg percentage. He is getting max. The question is with who?

I think the only reason he's getting quadruple teamed (I don't think I've personally seen that, but will take your word for it) is because the word is out of how poor a passer he is and how likely it is that he'll cough it up when double teamed. Not sure how that is a viable strategy we can explore by putting 4 on the other side of the court since there is a good chance that the other 4 will not see the ball that possession.

saved me the trouble

[DWadeno3]

For all the extremes in this thread, patience is key. Whiteside's on-going development and the way he views himself in the summer are gonna be the decisive factors. We're a well run organization, so I'm confident we'll solve this situation in a manner that it'll be beneficial for both parties. I don't see Whiteside becoming a number one or two offensive option on a championship team, but I'm confident he's gonna become a significant contributor to a title team. For all his flaws, he has abilities that are rare to find and he's a willing worker who is constantly developing. We're a little more than a quarter into the season. The type of discussion that's being held right now is only possible from after the ASB on.

[3ballbomber]

Oh yeah, Riley is a beast. We wouldn't be the team we are today without him. He's made earth shaking moves routinely. Getting Durant though, would be second only to Lebron in my mind, and that's a tall task. The team's mission is to seriously contend for a spot in the Finals this season, or Durant won't bat an eyelash.

Deep playoffs run in the EAst i think may be good enough for Durant. We don't necessarily need to make finals for him to be interested. After all Riles words breaths magic intertwined with harmony and energy force of the cosmos. He knows if he is added to a team like Miami that he will take them over the top.

It is a long shot i agree because Durant is as competitive as they get. OKC are also only a few pieces away from being great so quitting the team may not even be an option. But again, he still has to sit down in a room with Riles. He has to look into his eyes while listening to the sound of enchantment, wonder and magic.

I wonder if Durant will be as enigmatic as Lebron, and be willing to part ways with his buddy Westbrook, and find glory elsewhere. That's a lot to ask. OKC needs to have a dysfunctional season to increase our odds.

This is going to be an interesting offseason for the Heat, with all the potential space they have. We just need some Riley magic to shake the cosmos.

We are 15-9 while OKC are currently 17-8 and 3rd in the tough West. We are 4th. OKC has a solid team & a core that has been together for a long time. They just need a couple of key acquisitions to become great. So indeed it will have to take something terrible for Durant to leave. I'd feel hopeless otherwise but i become hopeful knowing Riles will get Durant in a room alone w/ his box of rings

I think this offseason will make or break us in regards to wether we can become true contenders before Wade retires. If we fail to bring in anything that can put us over the top Wade will walk into the sunset w/ no extra title post Lebron. He'll be 35 next year and his body can only last so long.

[miula]

1. Whiteside will get MAX this summer for sure.
2. The team signing Whiteside at MAX is at huge risk that he is not and will never be that good.
3. I want Heat in no parts of it.

We already overpay for Bosh and Dragic, do you want to overpay for an immature center who has huge flaws in his game?

Instead of a 80M/4Yr Whiteside, I would much prefer a 10M/4Yr Willie Reed.

[Prince Ali]

1. Whiteside will get MAX this summer for sure.
2. The team signing Whiteside at MAX is at huge risk that he is not and will never be that good.
3. I want Heat in no parts of it.

We already overpay for Bosh and Dragic, do you want to overpay for an immature center who has huge flaws in his game?

Instead of a 80M/4Yr Whiteside, I would much prefer a 10M/4Yr Willie Reed.

[Hoops23]

There are placeholders added until 13 players are allocated.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q79

your source is not applicable to roster place holders when it comes to using cap space. Your source is about the # of rosters a team should have in a season and how much active and inactive players a team should have.

Yes, Conley will probably get almost 20m, maybe more, not appreciably less, unless he has a rapid drop off in production. This is 2015-6 and the salary cap is 66. It's about to go to 89. You should think in terms of Percentage of salary cap. If you do you will see that both Bosh and Dragic are on good deals.

again, like I said above, even the cap goes up $89m, he wont get $20m or even close to that coz it will always depend on his talent and what his market value says. At this point both Bosh and Dragic are over paid. I understand the situation with Bosh then, Riley should match Houston offer to give Miami a chance to compete. Riley was force to trade for Dragic last year even in expense of mortgaging the Heats future by giving away picks because he thought there's a need to upgrade the position and Dragic is coming from a 20pts average. ..
At this point, Dragic is performing below expectation and his contract. But I'm still hoping Dragic can find his game in Miami as Riley said in the Herald by aggressively attacking.

Yeah, me too. Dragic & Bosh have won a ton more games than Cousins & Rondo this year. Rondo will want the ball even more than Dragic. Therefore, I don't see your trade making us better near-term. Also, if you care about team chemistry at all, Rondo would be a terrible addition.

Because they have a better supporting cast. Take to consider I'm talking about Dragic & Whiteside in my deal. And your bringing up Bosh!!!. IMO, I believe Miami will be much a better team with Cousins & Rondo instead of Whiteside & Dragic.

How can you say Rondo wants the ball more than Dragic when he is averaging more assist? My observation about the two, the ball takes long more in the hands of Dragic. Rondo is a lot better at defense, rebounder. Long range shooting is not much of a difference.

Dont tell me the combination of Whiteside/Dragic is better than Cousin/Rondo!?

It might be better to take this conversation up in the T&T forum or the offseason free agency forum here. You can even set up a poll.

How can that happen if Whiteside is already a free agent???
Remember, our topic is about getting a good deal or the most out of Whiteside without hampering the Heat chance to sign KD and Wade back. With the current Heat cap space, and assuming they max one FA, then its not enough to resign both Whiteside and Wade unless one has to make sacrifice. Thats the BIG question, can Miami keep Whiteside & Wade while adding a max free agent???

[QUIZ]

For all the we don't wanna max/pay Whiteside talk who is your alternative? We'll be losing him for nothing in that scenario so if you don't want to give the money to Whiteside who do you want to give it to assuming that we can't get Durant.

Nicolas Batum has a higher tier max than Whiteside, Batum's max starts at $25mill. Evan Fournier and Harrison Barnes have the same max as Whiteside and are likely to be retained by their own respective squads.

Would you rather overpay for the corpse of Dwight Howard?

[QUIZ]

Also Bosh isn't overpaid I don't know why people keep saying this. He's playing like a top 3 PF and in todays market you need to re-evaluate what a max contract nets you in terms of talent.

[miula]

Bosh , a inconsistent 17pts 8reb PF/C, at 22M, is not overpaid?

Myabe he is not overpaid next year, but he is overpaid at least in this season.

And if Harrison Barnes gets MAX too, he is of course overpaid too. In the first 2~3 years of new CAP, there are going to be a lot of players to be overpaid. But even that, those players still not worth it.

And the market will be back to normal after most of the teams use out their new cap-space.

It's just like stock market, sometimes stock price is way too high because of many reasons, but if the company can not hold its value on par with its stock price, it will fall back when the time comes.

[QUIZ]

Bosh , a inconsistent 17pts 8reb PF/C, at 22M, is not overpaid?

Myabe he is not overpaid next year, but he is overpaid at least in this season.

And if Harrison Barnes gets MAX too, he is of course overpaid too. In the first 2~3 years of new CAP, there are going to be a lot of players to be overpaid. But even that, those players still not worth it.

And the market will be back to normal after most of the teams use out their new cap-space.

It's just like stock market, sometimes stock price is way too high because of many reasons, but if the company can not hold its value on par with its stock price, it will fall back when the time comes.

No he's not overpaid, he got market value. All of our best lineups have featured Bosh. He's been our best and most consistent player overall. He doesn't have the ceiling that Wade does in terms of being able to explode for a huge night, but he's been awesome on both ends all year.

His rebounds are up, his 3pt percentage is at a career high and he has a TS% approaching 58% which will only go up once his mid range shots start falling for him.

He's arguably having a better season than both LaMarcus Aldridge and Kevin Love. I think he needs to make sure that he stays engaged all times instead of drifting like he did last game but overall he's been really good.

[Rock Hardy]

Bosh , a inconsistent 17pts 8reb PF/C, at 22M, is not overpaid?

Myabe he is not overpaid next year, but he is overpaid at least in this season.

And if Harrison Barnes gets MAX too, he is of course overpaid too. In the first 2~3 years of new CAP, there are going to be a lot of players to be overpaid. But even that, those players still not worth it.

And the market will be back to normal after most of the teams use out their new cap-space.

It's just like stock market, sometimes stock price is way too high because of many reasons, but if the company can not hold its value on par with its stock price, it will fall back when the time comes.

I don't consider someone overpaid when they're making the money the market set for them. He was going to get gonzo dollars from Houston, if we didn't pay him. Dude seriously has Dirk's skillset, but can play the 5 and defend. That don't grow on trees. He's not overpaid, he's underutilized. He's not a primary ballhandler, so it's up to others to sacrifice their touches to feed him.

[Rock Hardy]

For all the we don't wanna max/pay Whiteside talk who is your alternative? We'll be losing him for nothing in that scenario so if you don't want to give the money to Whiteside who do you want to give it to assuming that we can't get Durant.

Nicolas Batum has a higher tier max than Whiteside, Batum's max starts at $25mill. Evan Fournier and Harrison Barnes have the same max as Whiteside and are likely to be retained by their own respective squads.

Would you rather overpay for the corpse of Dwight Howard?

Good question. I'd probably find some forwards on a year loan and try the following year for Westbrook. I'd all Wade to either come off the bench, or play the 3. It would be an absolutely chaotic lineup with 3 ball-dominant guards trying to share one ball, but we'd be able to run like crazy, and we'd have a true successor to Wade. I'm due Westbrook would be okay with playing the 2, since he's already a reckless gunner anyway. LOL.

I don't know. I just wouldn't commit long term to Whiteside simply because we miss on Durant. There has to be a better, less risky way to use those funds.

[Hoops23]

1. Whiteside will get MAX this summer for sure.
2. The team signing Whiteside at MAX is at huge risk that he is not and will never be that good.
3. I want Heat in no parts of it.

We already overpay for Bosh and Dragic, do you want to overpay for an immature center who has huge flaws in his game?

Instead of a 80M/4Yr Whiteside, I would much prefer a 10M/4Yr Willie Reed.

I doubt Whiteside will get the max salary of $23m, but maybe $17m. I too believe he's over paid for that, but the market will dictate his price, thats why I'm worried Miami might not able to sign another max FA player and Wade.

As far as Bosh, I agree he's over paid but Miami was force to because of the loss of Lebron. I dont regret the Bosh signing because of that reason and Heat might have been too awful last season.

Reason I open or suggest a Whiteside trade, because I'm worried Miami might kill its chances to add a FA like Durant or maybe DeRozan and Wade if Hassan's given a max contract or close to the max. Dumping McBob's contract is a big help.

NO TO MAX CONTRACT TO WHITESIDE!!!

[QUIZ]

For all the we don't wanna max/pay Whiteside talk who is your alternative? We'll be losing him for nothing in that scenario so if you don't want to give the money to Whiteside who do you want to give it to assuming that we can't get Durant.

Nicolas Batum has a higher tier max than Whiteside, Batum's max starts at $25mill. Evan Fournier and Harrison Barnes have the same max as Whiteside and are likely to be retained by their own respective squads.

Would you rather overpay for the corpse of Dwight Howard?

Good question. I'd probably find some forwards on a year loan and try the following year for Westbrook. I'd all Wade to either come off the bench, or play the 3. It would be an absolutely chaotic lineup with 3 ball-dominant guards trying to share one ball, but we'd be able to run like crazy, and we'd have a true successor to Wade. I'm due Westbrook would be okay with playing the 2, since he's already a reckless gunner anyway. LOL.

I don't know. I just wouldn't commit long term to Whiteside simply because we miss on Durant. There has to be a better, less risky way to use those funds.

The cap is going to jump another $20mill in 2017 so signing Whiteside wouldn't effect our chances at going after Westbrook. The fact of the matter is that there aren't really that many people to spend that money on which is why everyone is going to get overpaid.

I don't agree that there are better ways to spend the money, maybe less risky but once you head down that path you're just begging to be a treadmill team.

Unless retaining Whiteside impedes our ability to get/go after Durant, resign him.

[gom]

How can you say Rondo wants the ball more than Dragic when he is averaging more assist? My observation about the two, the ball takes long more in the hands of Dragic. Rondo is a lot better at defense, rebounder. Long range shooting is not much of a difference.

Dont tell me the combination of Whiteside/Dragic is better than Cousin/Rondo!?

Team chemistry means an awful lot. Our players genuinely like each other. Bringing Rondo to Miami is like bringing Hibbert here.


If you want other opinions, it might be better to take this conversation up in the T&T forum or our own offseason free agency forum. You can even set up a poll.

In my opinion the Kings fans will hate your proposal and I am one Heat fan that doesn't like it. I really dislike Rondo. There aren't many players I would put in his elite class of NBAssholes (Hibbert and Joaquim Noah definitely have a place too).

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/rajon-rondo-never-play-miami-heat-video-164022026.html

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fre_SGtycBM[/youtube]

Watch this video and tell me why you want him on our team.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYHxY3V4lJQ[/youtube]

Remember, our topic is about getting a good deal or the most out of Whiteside without hampering the Heat chance to sign KD and Wade back. With the current Heat cap space, and assuming they max one FA, then its not enough to resign both Whiteside and Wade unless one has to make sacrifice. Thats the BIG question, can Miami keep Whiteside & Wade while adding a max free agent???

I don't think we can add a max free agent this offseason. Our goal should be to keep Wade and Whiteside. That's a pretty good offseason.

[QUIZ]

1. Whiteside will get MAX this summer for sure.
2. The team signing Whiteside at MAX is at huge risk that he is not and will never be that good.
3. I want Heat in no parts of it.

We already overpay for Bosh and Dragic, do you want to overpay for an immature center who has huge flaws in his game?

Instead of a 80M/4Yr Whiteside, I would much prefer a 10M/4Yr Willie Reed.

I doubt Whiteside will get the max salary of $23m, but maybe $17m. I too believe he's over paid for that, but the market will dictate his price, thats why I'm worried Miami might not able to sign another max FA player and Wade.

As far as Bosh, I agree he's over paid but Miami was force to because of the loss of Lebron. I dont regret the Bosh signing because of that reason and Heat might have been too awful last season.

Reason I open or suggest a Whiteside trade, because I'm worried Miami might kill its chances to add a FA like Durant or maybe DeRozan and Wade if Hassan's given a max contract or close to the max. Dumping McBob's contract is a big help.

NO TO MAX CONTRACT TO WHITESIDE!!!

Who should get it then? We let Whiteside go, ok thats step 1. Now we have $42mill in space, $48mill if we can dump McBob. What's step 2? Offer Durant $25mill? For arguments sake lets say that he says no. Now what do we do? We've dumped McBob and we let Whiteside sign with the Celtics(again for arguments sake).

Now we have $48mill in cap space, all of the restricted free agents have re-signed and LeBron is staying with the Cavs. What do we do now? Offer Al Horford his max which would be 4 year $113mill and even with that overpay the Hawks could and would pay more to retain their best player.

So then we move onto who? The corpse of Dwight Howard? Because his max is even higher than Horfords.

Here's the list have a look for yourself: http://hoopshype.com/2015/12/10/nba-free-agency-2016-the-top-players/

Unless you want to give $100mill to Parsons or Conley or DeRozen instead of $90mill to Hassan there isn't much reason to let him go. Unless of course we somehow land Durant.

[gom]

1. Whiteside will get MAX this summer for sure.
2. The team signing Whiteside at MAX is at huge risk that he is not and will never be that good.
3. I want Heat in no parts of it.

We already overpay for Bosh and Dragic, do you want to overpay for an immature center who has huge flaws in his game?

Instead of a 80M/4Yr Whiteside, I would much prefer a 10M/4Yr Willie Reed.

I doubt Whiteside will get the max salary of $23m, but maybe $17m. I too believe he's over paid for that, but the market will dictate his price, thats why I'm worried Miami might not able to sign another max FA player and Wade.

As far as Bosh, I agree he's over paid but Miami was force to because of the loss of Lebron. I dont regret the Bosh signing because of that reason and Heat might have been too awful last season.

Reason I open or suggest a Whiteside trade, because I'm worried Miami might kill its chances to add a FA like Durant or maybe DeRozan and Wade if Hassan's given a max contract or close to the max. Dumping McBob's contract is a big help.

NO TO MAX CONTRACT TO WHITESIDE!!!

Whiteside's max salary is $20,956,974 - not 23 million. Bosh can easily get the salary we pay him from many other teams so I reject the premise that he's overpaid.