Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[BigUps]

I don't see this as a calling out in support of Thibs. I think Thibs time came to a universal end (unfortunately). I see this more as a shot directly at Hoiberg and exactly how soft he's been. Jimmy isn't saying give me Thibs, he's saying Fred needs a pair. This shouldn't be a Thibs vs Fred conversation, but just a Fred is a sissy conversation.

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[DRoseCantStop]

Butler for Cousins and Gay.

If he keeps talking like this, I won't be surprised if he's traded.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Butler for Cousins and Gay.

If he keeps talking like this, I won't be surprised if he's traded.

Jimmy's the only one in whole organization performing above replacement level, including Hoiberg and GarPax. When he goes it'll be because he opted out, I suspect.

[LOUDO]

This title should be changed. Butler didn't say anything about Thibs.

This isn't a Thibs/Hoiberg thing. This is a Butler/Hoiberg thing with a side of DRose and a dash of crappy snell and god awful Mirotic

[BigUps]

Fred isn't getting through to the players on offense. We can all see it. And while I'm inclined to chalk it up to this flawed roster, it's possible, just possible, that Fred isn't good at holding NBA players accountable. If that's the case, maybe a public butt kicking is what the doctor ordered. Coaches trash players to the media, sometimes to great effect. But we're not OK with Jimmy doing it because Fred's an authority figure? Consider the possibility that he isn't, which is Jimmy's point.

Spot on. Jimmy's basically saying Fred's to soft to even discipline me when I call him out directly in the media. He obviously has little respect for him right now.

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[weneeda2guard]

The 3 biggest offensive hubs on the team are Rose, Gasol, and Butler.

Butler is doing his job.

Rose is historically awful right now. This is not Fred's fault.

Gasol's efficiency has fallen off as we are no longer feeding him in the post. This is tactical. You can blame Fred for this if you want.

What exactly is the job jimmy doing? Because it seems to me out of the 3 you named rose has been the 1 moving the ball while jimmy and pau have become ball stoppers. Unless your telling me hoiberg offense is give the ball to rose jimmy and pau and get out the way?

He's scoring an efficient 20 a game.

Rose is an absolute disaster, yet has the highest USG% among the starters.

And yet with that "efficient" 20 the bulls are 25th in offense. All that is on rose? Even though he is one of the few trying to move the ball?

I think rose can play better, but I find myself defending him more because he has become the simple easy cop out for all the bulls issues and everyone else gets the benefit of the doubt.

Bad defense, rose can't stay in front of his man (which is not true )
Saw someone blaming rose for that bad pnr defense last night , like really?
Can't make a move to improve the roster, because of rose and his contract, as if the bulls are the only team paying a guy 20 mill
27th in offense, blame rose
Hoiberg not holding guys accountable, gets pretty much called out by name, nope, that's rose fault too smh.

Kirk is going back to putting up donuts
Snell is terrible
Mcdermott can't guard anybody
Taj don't know how to pass out the post
Pau can't stop any dribble penetration and can't protect the rim
Portis can't get on the floor
Moore has disappeared
Brooks only looks for his own shot.
Niko has been terrible

Yet with all this bad production from so many players getting significant minutes, it all still becomes jump on rose, jump on rose jump on rose. So basically for some bulls fans instead of pleading for roster improvement, we rather it go back to he days when our team was the 1 trick pony roster that was all rose all the time. Even though we saw that roster get exposed severely in 2011. Meanwhile the front office who have done very little to stack the roster up, gets to laugh in they sky box while rose becomes the scapegoat for yet another mediocre season.

And the east is much improved so this season can get real bad smh.

[TheSuzerain]

What exactly is the job jimmy doing? Because it seems to me out of the 3 you named rose has been the 1 moving the ball while jimmy and pau have become ball stoppers. Unless your telling me hoiberg offense is give the ball to rose jimmy and pau and get out the way?

He's scoring an efficient 20 a game.

Rose is an absolute disaster, yet has the highest USG% among the starters.

And yet with that "efficient" 20 the bulls are 25th in offense. All that is on rose? Even though he is one of the few trying to move the ball?

I think rose can play better, but I find myself defending him more because he has become the simple easy cop out for all the bulls issues and everyone else gets the benefit of the doubt.

Bad defense, rose can't stay in front of his man (which is not true )
Saw someone blaming rose for that bad pnr defense last night , like really?
Can't make a move to improve the roster, because of rose and his contract, as if the bulls are the only team paying a guy 20 mill
27th in offense, blame rose
Hoiberg not holding guys accountable, gets pretty much called out by name, nope, that's rose fault too smh.

Kirk is going back to putting up donuts
Snell is terrible
Mcdermott can't guard anybody
Taj don't know how to pass out the post
Pau can't stop any dribble penetration and can't protect the rim
Portis can't get on the floor
Moore has disappeared
Brooks only looks for his own shot.
Niko has been terrible

Yet with all this bad production from so many players getting significant minutes, it all still becomes jump on rose, jump on rose jump on rose. So basically for some bulls fans instead of pleading for roster improvement, we rather it go back to he days when our team was the 1 trick pony roster that was all rose all the time. Even though we saw that roster get exposed severely in 2011. Meanwhile the front office who have done very little to stack the roster up, gets to laugh in they sky box while rose becomes the scapegoat for yet another mediocre season.

And the east is much improved so this season can get real bad smh.

It was a while ago, but I ran the numbers and if Gasol/Rose were scoring at league average TS%, the offense would be well above average. I want to say we would rank like 10th in O-Rating.

So yes, Rose is a huge reason as to why the offense is so bad.

[unknownnewbie]

So if Hoiberg calls Jimmy out for his crappy defense the last 2 games and for his tendency to try and score off ISO plays way too much in general, Jimmy would be ok with this?

Why don't I believe that?

Butler is probably right in that Hoiberg needs to be tougher on the players, but calling him out through the media is not the best way to try and fix things

[keloms]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/678441972680540160[/tweet]

[kingkirk]

I don't know how anyone could support Jimmy Butler in these comments. If he is trying to be the vocal leader here with those comments, he's failing.

[fleet]

So if Hoiberg calls Jimmy out for his crappy defense the last 2 games and for his tendency to try and score off ISO plays way too much in general, Jimmy would be ok with this?

Why don't I believe that?

Butler is probably right in that Hoiberg needs to be tougher on the players, but calling him out through the media is not the best way to try and fix things

Fair enough. Jimmy can find a better way to address this. But isn't what he is saying and what it ultimately means more important than focusing on the inappropriate forum he chose to express what is going on?

[ralphisBullsFan]

Jimmy has no interest in playing for a losing organization. He knows JR only cares about baseball and floyberg was a rebuilding coach. Jimmy will eventually demand a trade. He won't suffer guys like Snell,Doug,Mirotic or even Rose. I wouldn't mind seeing him play for Detroit so they can destroy the Cavs the next 5 years.

[TheGOATRises007]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/678441972680540160[/tweet]

They don't connect to an easy going style or hard ass style.

So what the **** do they connect to?

[weneeda2guard]

Butler for Cousins and Gay.

If he keeps talking like this, I won't be surprised if he's traded.

Jimmy's the only one in whole organization performing above replacement level, including Hoiberg and GarPax. When he goes it'll be because he opted out, I suspect.

Love jimmy, but he is not a 1st option and us going with him as one, is like a man settling for the ugly fat chick because the pretty girl got scooped up by his friend and he just doesn't want to go home empty handed.

The reason so many people are pissed at rose is because jimmy is the 1st option and we really don't like that. Why? Because when rose was the 1st option games like yesterday and today we were winning, and on our way to best record in the league, but under the jimmy regime we get 3 and 2 game loses to teams we used to own and coaches getting called out. It's starting to feel like when scar took over the pride from mufasa.

Durant is close to bouncing. That is a 1st option. Rose is like wade on the heat. He was once the all purpose make all your mistakes go away player but now, he us 16-20 ppg with a 30 ppg sprinkled here and there. Adding durant and cousins would be the equivalent of adding lebron and bosh to the mix and durant is a true number 1 option. With cousins and a new looking rose on this roster, plus cap space, we become the 1st option durant will choose if he bounces from okc. I was joking around before but the more I think about it, the more I actually like the idea of really trying to set up this big 3. They can very easily get past lebron and beat whoever coming from out west, and that is a better plan than a 2nd rd exit again this season, losing noah and pau for nothing this off season and filling the roster out with Corey brewer and lou admunson types.

[BigUps]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/678441972680540160[/tweet]

They don't connect to an easy going style or hard ass style.

So what the **** do they connect to?

They actually did connect with Thibs. It apparently ran it's course, but they connected.

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[Chicago-Bull-E]

Thibs and Fred are opposite sides of the spectrum in coaching styles, it would seem.

You can be hands off with players, but for that to work you need intelligent players that hold themselves accountable, and look to improve and work day in and out. Golden state has this. It's why the strategy works so well.

Guys like Derrick, Niko, and Snell strike me as low iq, passive personalities who need a ton of direction and accountability from outside sources. The Bulls don't have the personnel for this strategy. Which is why it boggles the mind as to why no moves were made in the offseason.

[TheGOATRises007]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/678441972680540160[/tweet]

They don't connect to an easy going style or hard ass style.

So what the **** do they connect to?

They actually did connect with Thibs. It apparently ran it's course, but they connected.

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Well that is true.

Maybe they wanted a different taste of a hard ass coach

[GetBuLLish]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/678441972680540160[/tweet]

So it might not just be Butler, huh?

It is too early to tell if Hoiberg will be a good coach. But as of right now, the signs are not pointing up. And if it turns out that he's a bad hire, this front office will have really screwed up this team over the last few years.

[kingkirk]

They actually did connect with Thibs. It apparently ran it's course, but they connected.

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Sure, but it took time. Also, Thibodeau had the luxury of having this roster in its prime. Last season, these bums got him bitten. They're doing the same thing to Hoiberg now as well.

[Red Larrivee]

So if Hoiberg calls Jimmy out for his crappy defense the last 2 games and for his tendency to try and score off ISO plays way too much in general, Jimmy would be ok with this?

Why don't I believe that?

Butler is probably right in that Hoiberg needs to be tougher on the players, but calling him out through the media is not the best way to try and fix things

Yeah, I don't know what the end game is here. I don't think Butler would appreciate any coach who is being brutally honest about his players without the hardware to back it up. I don't think any coach would appreciate a player who is brutally honest about his coaching staff without the hardware to back it up.

As far as isolation goes, Jimmy's 11.6% isolate rate isn't really high and he's actually pretty efficient on it when he does (.97 PPP)