Value of Kyrie Irving

DeathLineup · Post #1 » by **DeathLineup** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:55 am

Irving is basically an offense only player. He is still very young and locked for another five years. He could explode anytime and give us random 30 or 40 points game. Yet he is injury prone, does not assist that often for a point guard standard and a mess defensively. Looking at those facts, what is the market value of Irving?

I believe Cavaliers would be a much better team with Conley or Bledsoe instead of Irving. Cavaliers do not really need another bulldog or another go-to scorer. They got it covered in James, Love and sometimes Smith. Cavaliers would be better with those point guards that are good enough to create for themselves offensively yet are good on defense.

Irving for Conley, Carter and a 1st round pick (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jueqa8q)
Irving for Bledsoe, Goodwin and a 1st round pick (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zvhgqqv)

gom · Post #2 » by **gom** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:02 am

Kyrie is one of the best players in the league and in my opinion he is worth more than either of those proposals. He is also on a good deal, but he's worth a max contract - even with an $89M cap.

Post #3 » by **jbk1234** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:05 am

rio_hm wrote:Irving is basically an offense only player. He is still very young and locked for another five years. He could explode anytime and give us random 30 or 40 points game. Yet he is injury prone, does not assist that often for a point guard standard and a mess defensively. Looking at those facts, what is the market value of Irving?

I believe Cavaliers would be a much better team with Conley or Bledsoe instead of Irving. Cavaliers do not really need another bulldog or another go-to scorer. They got it covered in James, Love and sometimes Smith. Cavaliers would be better with those point guards that are good enough to create for themselves offensively yet are good on defense.

Irving for Conley, Carter and a 1st round pick (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jueqa8q)
Irving for Bledsoe, Goodwin and a round pick (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zvhgqqv)

We'll trade Kyrie just because when GS trades Curry just because.

MessiahUjiri · Post #4 » by **MessiahUjiri** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:12 am

If you can get Bledsoe, Goodwin and a first round pick? Yeah I'd do that.

Don't forget the Bledsoe-Rich Paul/Lebron connection.

mjj0062 · Post #5 » by **mjj0062** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:14 am

LOL. Anybody notice the guy that started this thread is a warriors fan?

Post #6 » by **jbk1234** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:22 am

MessiahUjiri wrote:If you can get Bledsoe, Goodwin and a first round pick? Yeah I'd do that.

Don't forget the Bledsoe-Rich Paul/Lebron connection.

Given the fact that the Cavs just paid TT a whole bunch of money, I doubt they forgot. Not sure that would be a selling point though.

Cavs wouldn't do this. I mean in order to break up a big three that is a legit contender for a championship, you need to do more than offer "fair value." You've got to offer an overpay that's heavy on win-now talent. Plus, where do the Suns go after this trade? A Kyrie/Knight back court isn't complimentary, the rest of their team isn't good enough defensively to build around Kyrie, and they just traded their 1st round pick.

DeathLineup · Post #7 » by **DeathLineup** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:04 am

MessiahUjiri wrote:If you can get Bledsoe, Goodwin and a first round pick? Yeah I'd do that.

Don't forget the Bledsoe-Rich Paul/Lebron connection.

Yep, that is also another reason that makes me think Cavaliers might do Irving for Bledsoe. LeBron the GM.

DeathLineup · Post #8 » by **DeathLineup** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 am

jbk1234 wrote:
MessiahUjiri wrote:If you can get Bledsoe, Goodwin and a first round pick? Yeah I'd do that.

Don't forget the Bledsoe-Rich Paul/Lebron connection.

Given the fact that the Cavs just paid TT a whole bunch of money, I doubt they forgot. Not sure that would be a selling point though.

Cavs wouldn't do this. I mean in order to break up a big three that is a legit contender for a championship, you need to do more than offer "fair value." You've got to offer an overpay that's heavy on win-now talent. Plus, where do the Suns go after this trade? A Kyrie/Knight back court isn't complimentary, the rest of their team isn't good enough defensively to build around Kyrie, and they just traded their 1st round pick.

Cavaliers with Irving in the line up does not scare me at all as a Warriors fan. Warriors would have a better chance to beat Cavaliers with Irving in the line up rather than he is on the bench. Warriors could expose them on every time because he is a liability on defense. Yet if they put Conley or Bledsoe on Curry then it is a whole different conversation. Cavaliers gave Warriors a real fight last finals because they deployed Dellavedova on Curry. Dellavedova is a good enough defender to disturb Curry's rhythm. Imagine having a way way better Dellavedova (offensively and defensively) in Conley or Bledsoe to matchup against Curry. Basically, Conley and Bledsoe are both the "ultra 3 and D" type of player, which they could defend very well and doing more than just shoot threes on offense.

Suns is always gunning for a star like what they tried to do with signing Chandler to lure out Aldridge. I think they would love to have a chance to obtain Irving then build around him. Irving could help them attract upper tier free agents. Then, Knight could be a valuable trade chip to improve another position.

Post #9 » by **bondom34** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:43 am

An Irving/Knight backcourt sounds like a terrible fit too.

AussieBuck · Post #10 » by **AussieBuck** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:46 am

bondom34 wrote:An Irving/Knight backcourt sounds like a terrible fit too.

They could do some solid gunning but man would everything else be a mess.

Post #11 » by **bondom34** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:48 am

AussieBuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:An Irving/Knight backcourt sounds like a terrible fit too.

They could do some solid gunning but man would everything else be a mess.

Yeah score 120, give up 125.

DeathLineup · Post #12 » by **DeathLineup** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:51 am

AussieBuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:An Irving/Knight backcourt sounds like a terrible fit too.

They could do some solid gunning but man would everything else be a mess.

Yep. In the case Irving got traded to Suns then Suns need to move Knight. Which could gave them a good value in return with his scoring run lately. The point of this trade is Suns getting a star not another guard to work with Knight.

Sportfan73 · Post #13 » by **Sportfan73** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:21 am

Irving and CLE choice of bad contract between Andy and TT to Philly
LA pick to BOS
Noel and Bradley to CLE

mademan · Post #14 » by **mademan** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:19 pm

I cant believe how much you guys underrate Irving. Dude is an incredible compliment to Lebron and had a fantastic season last year. He's a huge part of their team and is nowhere near this defensive sieve you guys all make him out to be (maybe 2 years ago, but not last year). There's only a handful of players I'd trade Irving for and those teams wouldnt make those trades.

Lol at trading him for Conley/Bledsoe/Noel+Bradley and thinking it makes the Cavs better. It doesnt

I Am Awesome-O · Post #15 » by **I Am Awesome-O** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:20 pm

rio_hm wrote:Irving for Conley, Carter and a 1st round pick (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jueqa8q)

Post #16 » by **Domejandro** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:31 pm

Cleveland would likely never do it, but I would really hope that they would go for the Eric Bledsoe trade, Bledsoe is the better player, in my opinion.

DeathLineup · Post #17 » by **DeathLineup** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:50 pm

mademan wrote:I cant believe how much you guys underrate Irving. Dude is an incredible compliment to Lebron and had a fantastic season last year. He's a huge part of their team and is nowhere near this defensive sieve you guys all make him out to be (maybe 2 years ago, but not last year). There's only a handful of players I'd trade Irving for and those teams wouldnt make those trades.

Lol at trading him for Conley/Bledsoe/Noel+Bradley and thinking it makes the Cavs better. It doesnt

Line up of Irving-Shumpert-James-Love-Thompson would give up too much on the defensive end. Conley or Bledsoe instead of Irving would make them more balanced on defense. Only Love is the total minus defender. Offensively, they would not lose that much with Love getting back to his top performance. Plus as you know, Irving is awfully freaking injury prone. Conley or Bledsoe are way way more reliable health and fitness wise.

BleedGreen1989 · Post #18 » by **BleedGreen1989** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:01 pm

I still see suoerstar potential, so I certainly wouldn't trade him for the OP's suggestions.

Depalma2002 · Post #19 » by **Depalma2002** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:20 pm

Sportfan73 wrote:Irving and CLE choice of bad contract between Andy and TT to Philly
LA pick to BOS
Noel and Bradley to CLE

Yeah, this one is way off on just about every level

1. It's not even CBA legal. Philly has quite a bit of cap room left but not enough to do this deal. There would need to be salary matching.
2. Completely undersells Irving
3. While they might have ended up overpaying TT so, I guess you could label it a "bad contract", he is not a negative value player.
4. Noel doesn't help them win now. Given TT's versatility (while both Noel and TT have played both the 4 and 5, only TT has shown that he can play both the 4 and 5). I like Noel's long-term potential (as a 5) but for the Cavs and for this year, I'd stick with TT.
5. Unless it is a move to guarantee a championship, I can't see them moving Andy Varejao even with his contract. While sports is a business and there is often no room left for loyalty, the loyalty in both directions between AV and the Cavs appears strong.
6. This move leaves Cleveland with Matthew Dellavedova as their starting point guard. Don't pay attention to what the ESPN trade machine is telling you, Avery Bradley is not a point guard. The Celtics ended that failed experiment about 3 years ago. No knock against Della. Good, gritty player, but the dropoff is so deep, I can't see bottom from the cliff. Irving to Bledsoe is a drop. Irving to MD is a plunge.
7. Again, Bradley is not a point guard, but he is a very good player. However, the Cavaliers already have an Avery Bradley type player in their lineup; Iman Shumpert. You don't deal a top of the rotation piece to duplicate a middle of the rotation piece.

However, on the flip side. It seems that Boston get's the LA pick straight up for Bradley. Let's do that!

zubi_anaba · Post #20 » by **zubi_anaba** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:05 pm

rio_hm wrote:
mademan wrote:I cant believe how much you guys underrate Irving. Dude is an incredible compliment to Lebron and had a fantastic season last year. He's a huge part of their team and is nowhere near this defensive sieve you guys all make him out to be (maybe 2 years ago, but not last year). There's only a handful of players I'd trade Irving for and those teams wouldnt make those trades.

Lol at trading him for Conley/Bledsoe/Noel+Bradley and thinking it makes the Cavs better. It doesnt

Line up of Irving-Shumpert-James-Love-Thompson would give up too much on the defensive end. Conley or Bledsoe instead of Irving would make them more balanced on defense. Only Love is the total minus defender. Offensively, they would not lose that much with Love getting back to his top performance. Plus as you know, Irving is awfully freaking injury prone. Conley or Bledsoe are way way more reliable health and fitness wise.

It's really telling the GS fans keep coming up with these ridiculous trade Kyrie scenarios or how Cavs would be somehow worse with Kyrie and Klove. First of all just ignoring the fact that Cavs effectively had a 7 man rotation through the whole series, adding 2 competent bball players in the FC and BC would have made a huge diff. You then add the fact that one of those players is their second best player plus a budding superstar while the other is an allstar big that can post up and stretch the floor.

Dubs fans really have short memories of Cavs blowing them out in Feburary with both squads fully healthy. Oh well am sure they wil be reminded shortly of how much worse Cavs are with Kyrie and Klove on the floor :lol:

One things for sure is that dubs fans insecurities are real. :lol: