Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[chrispatrick]

The Bulls live in a world so far from reality it's scary, and it's starting to collapse:

Pau Gasol is a future HOF player, but has only truly succeeded when Kobe was there to push him daily, that is no longer with him so he is back to his Memphis days of being a very productive player, but not a winning player.

Derrick Rose is a former MVP, who is so mentally fractured it's hard to even relate to him as a player. He looks engaged maybe half the time, otherwise it looks like he would rather be anywhere but the basketball floor.

Jimmy Butler is a guy who worked his way all the way up from the bottom and it's gotten to his head and he thinks he is better than he is. Butler is a good player, but far from great - but he thinks he is great.

Joakim Noah is actually the guy who is actually the most mentally strong, and his game looks to be coming back to him. Noah is a real leader, a great team guy but has always been an offensive liability. I have nothing but the absolute utmost respect for Jo.

McDermott / Snell / Mirotic - Young guys who have been told so many times by upper management how good they, yet none of them are rotation players on a good team. Maybe McDermott, but the other two are so beyond overrated its scary.

Taj Gibson is a role player, looks like he's lost some spark after the ankle surgery - solid player, but nothing more than a role player.

Hoiberg is a good guy, and could probably be a good coach but was fooled by his best fried Gar Forman who continues, with help of Paxson, to fool people into thinking this team is talented and prime to make a run.

In short, the Bulls are a mess, starts from the top (Ownership & Management), the players are nuts, the new coach has no idea how to handle at this - just a total and utter disgrace of an organization.

Jimmy's head has gotten big because he wants his teammates to play hard? Jimmy is great, he's just not the top 5 type player you need to lead an NBA champion. Butler's frustrations with his teammate's effort are legit and most people at home watching every game observe the same thing. Some people (granted, a minority, not saying the majority) seem to think Butler is expendable just because he's not that top 5 player despite the fact he's far and away the team's best player and leads by example on the court. Again, you're not going to win a championship with Butler as your best player but he's so far ahead of everything else that we have, he's earned the right to talk.

Now, is it smart to take your talk public? No, I don't think so, but it's also difficult to disagree with anything that he's said.

[RememberLu]

Some people have suggested we shouldn't sell low on guys since that's bad business, implying that we should instead sell high.

Ok then, do we feel like trading Jo right now?

[High level]

Trade Butler and Niko while their value is high. Even as all star Butler prime/ceiling just isn't enough to get us over the hump. We are not beating cavs with roster anyway so I would trade Butler and Niko for Boogie and Gay. Gasol and Boogie would be best front court pairing in the league. I like butler's game passion and energy which will be tough to replace but his ego and new 'leadership role' isn't a good look or fit for this team and tbh I don't think Rose and others feels comfortable playing with Jimmy, they are just not saying anything to avoid altercations. You can see it in Jimmys game now with all the isos and barely moving the ball. Hes turning into a poor mans Kobe Bryant. A team meeting needs to be called upon and Noah should be the permanent team leader.

[Flopper]

Is Jimmy a drama queen? It's good to have guys who will stir the pot and be outspoken, but it's also concerning when they keep doing it through the media. Two months into the season and he's already called out teammates and coaches publicly three times. I'm sure the intentions are good, but the last thing this team needs is more controversy and non-basketball news.

[Stratmaster]

Gasol, Noah, Taj, Hinrich, MDJ... these are guys who are professionals with their play, their comments, and their off-court actions.

The rest of the team...not so much.

[Dajody10]

The Bulls live in a world so far from reality it's scary, and it's starting to collapse:

Pau Gasol is a future HOF player, but has only truly succeeded when Kobe was there to push him daily, that is no longer with him so he is back to his Memphis days of being a very productive player, but not a winning player.

Derrick Rose is a former MVP, who is so mentally fractured it's hard to even relate to him as a player. He looks engaged maybe half the time, otherwise it looks like he would rather be anywhere but the basketball floor.

Jimmy Butler is a guy who worked his way all the way up from the bottom and it's gotten to his head and he thinks he is better than he is. Butler is a good player, but far from great - but he thinks he is great.

Joakim Noah is actually the guy who is actually the most mentally strong, and his game looks to be coming back to him. Noah is a real leader, a great team guy but has always been an offensive liability. I have nothing but the absolute utmost respect for Jo.

McDermott / Snell / Mirotic - Young guys who have been told so many times by upper management how good they, yet none of them are rotation players on a good team. Maybe McDermott, but the other two are so beyond overrated its scary.

Taj Gibson is a role player, looks like he's lost some spark after the ankle surgery - solid player, but nothing more than a role player.

Hoiberg is a good guy, and could probably be a good coach but was fooled by his best fried Gar Forman who continues, with help of Paxson, to fool people into thinking this team is talented and prime to make a run.

In short, the Bulls are a mess, starts from the top (Ownership & Management), the players are nuts, the new coach has no idea how to handle at this - just a total and utter disgrace of an organization.

Jimmy's head has gotten big because he wants his teammates to play hard? Jimmy is great, he's just not the top 5 type player you need to lead an NBA champion. Butler's frustrations with his teammate's effort are legit and most people at home watching every game observe the same thing. Some people (granted, a minority, not saying the majority) seem to think Butler is expendable just because he's not that top 5 player despite the fact he's far and away the team's best player and leads by example on the court. Again, you're not going to win a championship with Butler as your best player but he's so far ahead of everything else that we have, he's earned the right to talk.

Now, is it smart to take your talk public? No, I don't think so, but it's also difficult to disagree with anything that he's said.

I have no issue with JB calling out this team, and I would not dump Butler by any means. The Bulls are just in a weird place - Butler cannot be the best player on a title contender. He can be a #2, but not a #1 - so the question is, how do you get a #1 type guy?

[High level]

Gasol, Noah, Taj, Hinrich, MDJ... these are guys who are professionals with their play, their comments, and their off-court actions.

The rest of the team...not so much.

Exactly and that is a big part of the reason they are all still on this roster. Just good class act guys man.

[Red Larrivee]

Obviously, I disagree. Mirotic was one hot month last year. Some people took his hot month as evidence that he was being misused. I just thought it was a statistical aberration. His other months look a lot like this year.

Mirotic played well, at least offensively to start the season. He shot and scored the ball well. In november he had a .584 TS% and December a 61% TS. He floundered in January and February before blowing up with more minutes in March and trailed off in April. You don't get an 18 PER for a season by having just one hot month. Mirotic's +/- by month: -3.7, +13.5, +0.3, +8.3, +7.7, +6.8.

To say Thibodeau was right about Mirotic would be just wrong. Mirotic was not playing like this last season.

[Ice Man]

Some people have suggested we shouldn't sell low on guys since that's bad business, implying that we should instead sell high.

Ok then, do we feel like trading Jo right now?

You should have green fonted that, because as you know, this board ain't never gonna support trading a player that it likes. But Jimmy is talking his way onto the trading list ...

[MC3]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678609655787077633[/tweet]

that's why derrick is true leader. hope we can fetch cousins, bellineli, mclemore and gay for jimmy, kings pick, taj, niko, snell, our 2x future first round picks

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678609655787077633[/tweet]

that's why derrick is true leader. hope we can fetch cousins and mclemore and gay for jimmy, kings pick, taj, snell, our 2x future first round picks

LOL. You're right. True leaders speak softly and carry a big brother.

[MC3]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678609655787077633[/tweet]

that's why derrick is true leader. hope we can fetch cousins and mclemore and gay for jimmy, kings pick, taj, snell, our 2x future first round picks

LOL. You're right. True leaders speak softly and carry a big brother.

leaders respect coach authority and follow his vision no matter what. jimmy decided not to, and he decided that only after 20 games. even noah agree with rose. so 2 of 3 team leaders.

[Stratmaster]

Some people have suggested we shouldn't sell low on guys since that's bad business, implying that we should instead sell high.

Ok then, do we feel like trading Jo right now?

You should have green fonted that, because as you know, this board ain't never gonna support trading a player that it likes. But Jimmy is talking his way onto the trading list ...

This board likes whoever is playing well at the time. This board was brutal to Noah the last offseason begging for the Bulls to trade him and acting like they knew his health situation better than the doctors, the management, and Noah himself.

[High level]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678609655787077633[/tweet]

that's why derrick is true leader. hope we can fetch cousins and mclemore and gay for jimmy, kings pick, taj, snell, our 2x future first round picks

Yeah it could be time to test the market with Jimmy and see what we could possibly come up with. Love Jimmy's game but he is getting out of control with the finger pointing and throwing guys under the bus lol now I can see if he led us to a championship or something but right now he has no right to call anyone out the way he is doing so.

[Dajody10]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678609655787077633[/tweet]

that's why derrick is true leader. hope we can fetch cousins and mclemore and gay for jimmy, kings pick, taj, snell, our 2x future first round picks

LOL. You're right. True leaders speak softly and carry a big brother.

Derrick Rose never questions coach when benched - the bigger issue here, Rose would rather be benched than playing! Rose is certainly no leader - Joakim Noah is a leader, but his game has to be where it used to be in order for him to lead again.

[DASMACKDOWN]

LMAO

Lets trade your best player because he spoke his mind...

Not because he isn't producing on the court as a top player..but because he said something that many people and FANS agree with, but it just isn't "Kosher" to say to the media.

its political nonsense.

Tell me, who says its not ok to do this? Players? Coaches? Or the Media? If its the media, then they are the ones brain washing people to somehow think its wrong and not permitted.

I say its complete BS if you think Vinny is an idiot. The media crack jokes at Vince making bad decisions, but will jump on Chris Paul for saying exactly the same thing to that same media.

[coldfish]

Obviously, I disagree. Mirotic was one hot month last year. Some people took his hot month as evidence that he was being misused. I just thought it was a statistical aberration. His other months look a lot like this year.

Mirotic played well, at least offensively to start the season. He shot and scored the ball well. In november he had a .584 TS% and December a 61% TS. He floundered in January and February before blowing up with more minutes in March and trailed off in April. You don't get an 18 PER for a season by having just one hot month. Mirotic's +/- by month: -3.7, +13.5, +0.3, +8.3, +7.7, +6.8.

To say Thibodeau was right about Mirotic would be just wrong. Mirotic was not playing like this last season.

Per 36:
Last year: 18.1p 8.8r 40%fg 32%3p 5.0ftm 48%efg
This year: 16.3p 9.3r 38%fg 34%3p 3.0ftm 48%efg

The difference in his PER, points per minute and TS% is mostly just his free throws. People bit on his pump fake, drive and flail routine a lot. Now, they figured his gimmick out. He isn't a good shooter and now that teams figured out he isn't the stretch 4 they thought he was at first, the rest is being exposed.

[BeatDaCavs420]

Jimmy is right

He is saying what most of us feel and bitch about in the game threads every day

[Red Larrivee]

LMAO

Lets trade your best player because he spoke his mind...

Not because he isn't producing on the court as a top player..but because he said something that many people and FANS agree with, but it just isn't "Kosher" to say to the media.

its political nonsense.

Tell me, who says its not ok to do this? Players? Coaches? Or the Media? If its the media, then they are the ones brain washing people to somehow think its wrong and not permitted.

I say its complete BS if you think Vinny is an idiot. The media crack jokes at Vince making bad decisions, but will jump on Chris Paul for saying exactly the same thing to that same media.

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but it's how you express it. The media WANTS answers like this; it makes their job easier. Exclusive footage of Joe Cowley waking up this morning:



Answer the question in a non-confrontation manner and then go to Hoiberg in his office and talk to him man-to-man about it.

[DJhitek]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/678609655787077633[/tweet]

that's why derrick is true leader. hope we can fetch cousins and mclemore and gay for jimmy, kings pick, taj, snell, our 2x future first round picks

LOL. You're right. True leaders speak softly and carry a big brother.

leaders respect coach authority and follow his vision no matter what. jimmy decided not to, and he decided that only after 20 games. even noah agree with rose. so 2 of 3 team leaders.

I'd counter leaders should inspire their peers and set a high example to follow. None are Derricks finest qualities.

That said, not the forum or platform for Jimmy to express his frustrations about the coach. He is going to learn one way or another that Thibs isn't coming thru that door anymore. And while I think Fred hasn't coached a very good (in fact I'd say he has been pretty poor) 20 something games or so, it's too early to bail on his plans and structure.

But if Jimmy was going to say something, he could have brought up the fact that Portis playing 5 games so far is an absolute travesty. Now that's a topic of discussion worth having.